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Do Poachers Ever Get What They Deserve? | Outdoor Journal Radio ep.96
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Mar 24, 2025
This week on Outdoor Journal Radio, Ang and Pete are joined by former Arizona Game Ranger, Sam Lawry, to discuss poachers and the dark details of fish and game law enforcement. First, however, a bit of housekeeping was in order. Topics discussed included: Designs By Pete™; using a firearms license to board a flight; the consistency of Canadian airlines; Clint Eastwood; whether bass tournaments are harmful; hookless fishing; not caring about the moon phase; the infamous walleye cheater; and the best choice for a kayak fishing life jacket. With those matters out of the way, Sam joins us from the show from his hunting trip in Montana! Topics discussed included: why being a game ranger can be so dangerous; whether a CO needs a warrant; fishing undercover; accidental poachers; serial poachers; whether wildlife crimes are justly punished; why stripping a license is not effective; Coyote SOBs; getting found out while undercover; the mud puddle story; Sam's experience in Canada; and what you should do if you come across a poacher. To never miss an episode of Outdoor Journal Radio, be sure to like, subscribe, and leave a review on your favourite podcast app! More from Angelo and Pete: ► WEBSITE ► FACEBOOK ► INSTAGRAM ► YOUTUBE More from Sam Lawry: ► PHYSICAL BOOK ► AUDIOBOOK ► INSTAGRAM ► MEATEATER'S CLOSE CALLS
View Video Transcript
0:00
[Music] Outdoor Journal radio so how many times have I said this
0:05
is going to be the best outdoor Journal Radio podcast episode ever hi everybody ever we'll cancel all
0:14
of them because this is going to be the best episode of all time epic yeah I can
0:22
say if if Sam is our guest is as good as what we think he's going to be he's going to be good Mr Bowman over here
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Peter Bowman perhaps youve heard of him if you haven't people I'm going to get pissed off over there vaa hiding behind
0:35
the screen wave at us thank you vaa H and Nick is actually here today give me a hell yeah normally he just mails it in
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right he just mails in the the the he's kind of like the old uh Willie neander
0:47
no longer by the way no longer nander no longer the Old Willie I I have to take I'll talk about that in a minute and of
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course our very own the lovely The Talented Dean Taylor come on now on the yeah V's got a new technique for for
1:00
everybody listening to by the way when an gives him some kind of a smartass thing to say boa starts talking to him
1:05
in Ukrainian he doesn't have to answer that's awesome uh before we get into
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that wonderful image of Sam Lowry on the screen I mentioned Willie neander only
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because Willie I want to I want to take back I want to eat some Crow I love it
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that's so awesome I don't know what episode it was but it was at at uh Whatchamacallit uh Lodge 88 I don't what
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episode it's called but was that Lodge 88 questions and answers and I said that's true that is true whatever you
1:36
think that I'm lying and these guys are going I just I just uh yes I do actually
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um uh on that episode I was asked who I don't even know what the question was
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anyways whatever the episode believe you hate the worst the most it was kle and neander and I said because they they
1:57
don't work and they don't give you you know they don't give you the goods they're fake they're phony they
2:03
shouldn't be drawing a paycheck I said all those negative things no you did but you did say one thing you did say is
2:08
that they have the talent they just don't want to use it said and that's what irks me I'd rather see somebody
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without Talent work his ass off her ass off as well than somebody with talent that just
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wastes it and at that time when I said that unfortunately we Willie was uh was
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doing exactly that well tell you what he listened to the podast he had listen I
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don't want to say that for sure cuz I don't know is that Angelo guy I I need to gain his respect if I was a betman
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I'd say he listens to the podcast however I got to tell you right now I take it all back uh please forgive me
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Willie if you listen to this podcast uh I think you're the best
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hockey player in the National Hockey League right I can't believe I'm saying this but it's true what's his stats like
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versus uh he's he's in the top oh McDavid forget it M who Okay Sydney I
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saw Sydney had a good game the other night yeah yeah he's uh Willie's in the top five in in points don't downplay
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McDavid okay I don't care what you say if he's had a little slump he's still little slump oh you see what you're
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doing there now you're fous bastard oh he's the greatest player in the in the world obviously but he's not doing well
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right now right he'll get out of it yes he will he'll get out of it but anyways I just wanted to publicly apologize to
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you Willie if you will wanker went to town inside outside up big KNE Lander
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fan and no wow wow there I said it I feel anybody I feel better Hey Dean do
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you ever think you heard that right there I I kind of had an idea it was coming I got to be honest with you I got
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to be I feel better what I you didn't answer my question how was he sitting in the rankings of player I told you he's in top top five a point every game no
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but is he is he fifth like is that what he is yeah yeah he's in top five in every category good good the only thing
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he's not in top five for I think is hitting he's got to be number one in hair as is he not like the number one in herir he's out there for sure in hair
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can you imagine being him right now can you imagine being him he's sitting on
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the the cusp of signing I think right now if I were a
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betting man I would say his next contract is going to be bigger than
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Austin Matthews it might be bigger than McDavid am I right so 13 is Austin and
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McDavid right a year from now which is when he's going to sign his next contract when the cap goes up Cap's
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going up he's going to be he's going to be 45 the greater part of a plan 45 that
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was a plan see he did that purposefully and then Angelo called him out and then and all of a sudden I'm going to be a 14
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and a. half million guy million a year can you imagine looking like that and having an 8-year 14.5 million doll
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contract in your back pocket hello ladies I don't care about the money I just want to look like that I don't give a [ __ ] o oh my anyways uh just want to
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uh reach out to him in case he does listen anybody that knows him tell him tell him to tune in Listen to I think
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he's the best I don't care what the the rest of them say about you I think you're wonderful what a show what a show
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what a is this the episode or is this the episode a little later on we're going to be joined by this good-looking
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young man Sam Elliot lookalike uh his name is Sam Lowry he is a former
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conservation officer in both Arizona State of Arizona and then finished off
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his career in Montana spent 41 years in law enforcement in the outback he wrote
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a book that is the main reason he's on with us today it's a fascinating read uh
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you will uh hopefully he'll share some of those stories with us if we do our
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job properly we prompt him enough to uh to give us some insight but it's called the um
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um an Arizona game Ranger remembering the Outlaws is the name b the good part
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about the book is it's just stories pretty much it's just based on you know a section of stories which is so
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relatable for especially for people in the outdoors so that's so cool fascinating fascinating can't wait to talk to them uh before we get to that I
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want to remind everybody by the way in case you for those of you who don't know uh you can be watching us right now you
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can be watching I'm telling you I'm telling you uh you could be watching this very maybe
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they won't watch us because we're not as good-looking as neander they probably they might these but they don't know that unless they watch us then then
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they'll find we'll get one episode then I guess well maybe we'll get one episode maybe this will be the episode who knows uh we are now featured available uh up
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for display on YouTube come on on the fishing Canada YouTube channel now okay
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so why are we on the fishing Canada YouTube channel when this is called Outdoor Journal radio CU we're Canada
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guys we built an audience there all of our people live there yes all of our and you don't think we could have just transitioned everybody over to people
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don't transition easy yeah very difficult in this day AG St very difficult the YouTube world all right
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well you go to YouTube enough time getting our what's our numbers what's our subscribers on YouTube approximately
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oh 20 20 Nick's the man for that Nick hang on please checking that's why he's here 30 something 30 something that'd be
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nice if it was 30 something I thought it was 20 something last time I looked but he's looking look he's holding his finger look disgusted he's over there
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with his head down oh he the show so I can for he's in the Ukraine right now doing the uh sugar girl dances 30,000
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one two one 21,000 there you go 21,000 he was being
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what is this he can't sign language anyways uh for those of you interested you can go to YouTube right now as we
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speak and watch this uh presentation live sort of speak in but In Living
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Color yeah and and if you do that you'll notice that I'm wearing one of our
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beautiful Outdoor Journal hoodies that are available on shop at fishing
8:06
canada.com along with all of the other paraphernalia that you see on the screen and a whole bunch more see that shirt
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right there all available there that shirt right there I like that I'm working on a hat like that I'm working on I'm working on a design oh nice I
8:19
think I showed Dean and Dean likes it a lot well if Dean likes it thinks it's going to be like our best seller yeah wow if he likes it then why so just do
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I'm going to send you my mockups very soon and uh realize that we were uh doing that kind of stuff why well why
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not this is part of the business but part of the business I agree so you're so now you're into uh what do they call
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that department a fashionista a fashionista fashionista thank you a cigar fix aut and a fashionista wouldn't
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that go good right about now oh my I had aigar in the weekend I had one in my garage did you yeah I've been you know
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I'm I'm not doing enough of it well no you probably are you probably are doing enough of I'm not don't need to force
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the issue in the winter time you go to the garage to have a cigar it's probably an issue there anyways you think uh the Sam Elliot
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lookalike Sam Lowry will join us later on he's going to share some of his insane stories as he uh immerses himself
9:18
into the underbelly of the poaching and and illegal activities that are taking
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place in our outdoors and shares them with you as I said book
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I got a can I can I take a little bit of time as extra as a non-scheduled part of this sure please okay so did I mention
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this by people think that an and I have the nicest life but everything goes perfect and all and we do have we have a good gig but I'm going to tell them
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about our s St Marie trip so oh boy in a nutshell we have a we have a porter
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flight to go from Toronto Islands to Porter Airline have a porter he makes it sound like we can afford a porter out to
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Toronto to Su Marie instead of driving for seven hours right so our first
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thought was we got to go from oswa to the porter to Toronto Islands it's going to take we don't know which road to take
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47 well the plates at 10:15 so we had to wheels up at 6:30 is what we're saying
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from here to about 10:15 flight okay an was a little late he was 10:40 but he was still there anyways it took us
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almost 3 hours to drive in to from toron from Asha to Toronto we were just got on
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time ANS checks in gives his ID gives the bag I give them my ID and all of a
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sudden sorry Mr Bowman uh your driver's license has expired well I don't know
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how this works but I know my birthday's in June and I think you get it on your birthday if I'm not mistaken or maybe you don't but I I I think sometime
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before your birthday otherwise you'd be going around with I'm assuming they give it to you they let you know a month or two before it's expired they're supposed
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to yeah yeah they're which in your case would make it say let's say April yeah may maybe you know 30-day or whatever so
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anyway your driver's license is expired and an looks at me like you idiot and I look at me like you idiot okay give me
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uh if you got your heal health card cuz everybody else at here sir here you go man sorry sir that's expired as well so
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I got two expired cards and the flight is taken off like they're calling last
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call and just giving me the keys to the truck he says here drive back to the office and pick me up on Friday you idiot I don't know why I went through my
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wallet and I pulled out my fac and I and it's got a picture on it and it's a federal card my firearms acquisition
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certificate or Pal or whatever you want to call them they didn't even know if how to accept that because they haven't seen
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one in so long they had to go check with about three people and they've changed and all that so boom I get on the flight beautiful we got up there Su St Marie
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okay what a mess what mess with all that crap we were supposed to have supper on
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the train remember that we were supposed to have supper on the train ended up with Little Lords that was not that we all went out and had the train where did
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the train come we're on the plane but what he's saying part of the reason we were going up there is that uh there was
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this big uh tourism tourism Gala and and and and that night uh we were going to
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be fed uh via this um train a set of rail
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cars train and each and each one of the cars was going to be featuring a
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different food so we assume we going to be full going to be
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by time we get off that puppy and hit the Caboose they're going to have toose we're waddle back to the hotel
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right anyways that was a not the case that was a dis we don't even get into that it was a disaster day an we all do
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our things like that an get sick for the Galla so we have a g at the very end
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sick as a dog has to poo poo a lot calls me he say Peter I don't think I can make
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you have to go to the gala on your own so I go to the gala on my own Angel's at the back SI sick sick we got to leave
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the next morning flight's at 7 something we get up at 5:00 I just been wor about to you came
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to my door my hotel room I had already packed my luggage in the in the car got D I got a text but your plane has been
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delayed from 7:30 to 1:00 we could have slept then I got a text voted two hours
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after that so now we don't know what to do your plane has been delayed till 2:00 and another one after that I got to
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bring the car rental back for for for 8:00 so we had to deal with that and
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then the plane was at 2:30 and finally the plane left about 3 something like that but that's not that even I thought
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Air Canada was the only company that calls itself an airline
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that was allowed to screw up their schedule every day
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every flight I thought they were the only ones apparently not apparently Porter is now called Air Canada light
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because they too have assumed the responsibility of screwing up and uh
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just saying oh well hey y whatever what are you what are you going to do so the end of the story just to let everybody
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know this was the the piesta resistance so we just get off the plane at Porter
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and we're just about to get on the ferry boat and I get a text from Nick says the dead fish you left in your damn truck
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has stunk the office since you left we just found it I hate I hate it here so
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so when we left 3 days earlier for the airport Pete decided he wanted his truck
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indoors he didn't want to leave it outside for whatever reason normally he just leaves outside but this time he thought he'd be special us my wife takes
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it home ah he wanted to put it indoors we have a beautiful uh three Bay garage
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connected to the studio and so yeah put it indoors what do you want me to tell you so he puts it indoors well earlier
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uh during my when I was convalescing being ill up in the sue my wife uh sends
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me a message says there's something that died in this building I'm going to have to call an exterminator and or some kind
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of forensic uh outfit that can find it cuz we've tried everything we've turned the building upside down and we can't
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find it but man something is dead and dead dead
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dead and that's when we received news the next day from Nick that in fact it
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was Peter truck CU de Mr Dean knows the smell of dead fish so Dean figured it out I spotted it he spotted it went to
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my truck and all that I found it so what I done just to let everybody know is we have a big garbage bin out here and when
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I have fish guts when I clean a fish and I caught a pike previous not I don't even know how long but how long was that
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in there a week I think probably the weekend you not smell it like when you're no cuz it's outside in my driveway but doesn't it permeate like
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the cab no no it's outside my driveway these these temperatures are are to the
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point where it's not rotting yet right right these temperatures outside but when I put it inside totally forgetting to dump it in the bin that's when the
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problem was I mean that heated room in there and I got I got back and I thought I I Monique is going to cut my nuts off
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I guarantee oh my God a freaking idiot so had have been me I wouldn't be here
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right now to tell that story that's all I know for sure but not we pey cuz remember he's benevolent he's a youque
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Franciscan monk I love you Monique I you have to put up with this [ __ ] every day of your life you have to loved by many
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uh winter sale going on on by the way it was uh it was uh they Bo fixed it up put
16:35
it put the dump I took the truck to the car wash on the weekend we all lived happily fost uh winter sale going on as
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we speak on fishing canada.com or store. fishing canada.com whichever way you want to enter either the front door the
16:49
back door shop whatever you want it doesn't matter come on now come on now no wonder what do you on strike today
16:55
making notes you're making notes oh oh man are we in
17:00
trouble uh so yeah winter sale going on now all kinds of goodies don't miss it it is there it's there for you it is the
17:08
only reason it's there is for you it ain't for him although he's wearing one it ain't for me although by the way what
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do you think of that beauty yeah thank you thank you I got that one
17:22
now yes guys wow I love those were those the best the best movies of all time
17:29
would you R dusters they were the best oh man I want to watch one good the bad the ugly which is that one um FIS of
17:36
dollars that was a good one God even the funny ones like Two Mules for Sister Sarah you remember that one that was
17:43
okay but it was different it was but it was so funny even the funny ones were were awesome a few dollars more uh
17:51
High Drifter oh my how good was that that was a goodie that was a goodie anyways uh winter sale fishing
17:57
canada.com uh uh be there b square whatever they say don't uh don't you dare miss it uh listener feedback my
18:04
friend yeah man comment from Mitch 5538 via YouTube uh this is from the Eric
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Lindros episode oh that's why I was going to say what's uh the Doomer looking oh thank you thank you Dean see
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that's what he makes notes for right there so he can St oh okay right so as an American Mitch says as an American I
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appreciate your show thank you Mitch you guys teach people to be responsible fishermen here in the US some spots that
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were fantastic just 8 years ago are nothing what they were I love Smallmouth fishing and there ALS and there are also
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many issues that need discussion from someone with a platform to do so I think the biggest contributor to the downward
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Trend in numbers and average size is the huge amount of Live Well tournaments the
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process of stuffing five trophy 10-year-old plus fish in a box bouncing
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them around the lake parading them around to the we and then releasing the survivors miles away from the original
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Refuge causes tremendous fish death and is like putting the ecosystem in a
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blender 200 boats all with with fish in the well displacing them it's a blender
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and someone should be should Advocate these MLF or should Advocate the MLF
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method of catch and immediate release I love fishing and I fear uh that ecosystems will be like 10 to 20 years
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down the road if nothing else Chang es so you worry about what's going to happen 10 or 20 years down the road well
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method is a is a good one for those that don't know uh very quick story but just you can interrupt and then drop them
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right back as immediate release to that so so we've gone full circle because I'm
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listening as you're reading it I'm listening wow who would have thought here we are some 35 40 years later uh
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listening to this person tell us that live well tournaments should be banned
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when you know 35 40 years ago we were advocating for live wells to be standard
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equipment on a on a boat on a fishing boat of all things true because up until that point we were using coolers with
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little air Raiders right and uh so then every boat on the planet starts developing Live Well technology every
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boat has live wells everybody's happy we're all running around Tournament Fishing and and look at me with my
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wonderful uh recirculation live wells and everything is good and here we are
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now uh saying we need to ban Live Well tournaments by the sounds of it but you
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know during that whole process during that whole process the last four decades
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or so we've asked ourselves and we have been asked both ourselves asking and
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others asking are we sure that this Tournament Fishing where we're
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displacing for 4 500 fish every Saturday on a particular body of water
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yes yes they're being released yes the tournament
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organizers um grew through this Evolution to make sure that they managed
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handled and released these fish in in as good a shape as they could yes yes and
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yes but you know you can't deny the fact that we were removing these fish from
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where they were this morning at 8:00 to I don't know in some cases 20 30
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miles away and dumping them in different conditions water temperature water
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Clarity uh weeds food that whole thing they just went
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from boom boom boom and in between this guy is pretty accurate he's
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saying it's like putting them in a blender minus the blades and scrambling their brains a
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little bit you know and how many fish did we actually kill during that whole process people don't realize that that
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this blender he's talking about is we all think it's just a traveling from point A to point B but you don't realize
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that there's three-foot waves that are crushing in from every direction and that boat is just pounding all the way
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back etc etc so yeah there are bad days I mean on those calm days which there are some C days it's probably not near
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as much but the bless with the blender he's talking about I think anyways right it's pretty uh it pretty much yeah I
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think temperature change is probably a lot more critical than we like to think it is or give credit to uh temperature
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change oxygen level changes the close proximity the confinement in a small area of as as
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this gentleman says you know five big fish all pushed together in a box
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bouncing around that whole thing has got to be a bit of trauma as well listen I'm not I'm not saying from one minute here
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don't get me wrong I'm not saying that that Tournament Fishing is wrong I'm not saying that live wells are wrong I'm not saying any of the above but this this
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certainly should open our eyes this comment um is very interesting and he's
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not the only one I'm sure that's thinking that yeah yeah yeah and it's something that we should the MLF
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obviously they they but don't they still weigh a fish in or something during the process um I'm not sure the most current
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I know they've gone back to uh so went to a five fish limit thing and now they're back to unlimited and that's
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raising a bunch of concerns too guys don't like it a lot of people don't like it but um I don't know I think they're
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all in boat for the major for the big event I think they are all in boat they have you got to remember there's just bunch of series the Toyota series The
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there's a pro league or whatever they call it I can't remember what the other ones is so there's a bunch of different series all the way down but I think the
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big one is is on the water which is the one that's televised and showing people right so this guy sees this and says hey
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that's a great way of to doing it and it is a great way of doing it at some point though you know let's uh sort of roll
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forward in the time machine maybe 10 years down the road there may be a a a
24:10
message similar to this one except now it speaks to instant live release
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tournaments and the fact that it's doing damage to fish just by making contact with them so like where do you draw
24:23
there's a wonderful old dear friend of mine um who I've interviewed several
24:29
times on the on the Outdoor Journal radio Prime I think we've had her here on the podcast if I'm not mistaken uh
24:36
Katherine maroon um she used to be host of the
24:41
What A Catch television good memory buddy good memory no I'm serious I got
24:47
to Pat you in the back for that one you can't I didn't remember that cuz and to everybody listening he's very much a
24:54
victim of CRS so and and unfortunately if you don't know what that means is can't remember [ __ ] just so he's he's
24:59
got that disease I can remember Catherine for a number of reasons not the least of which is that she had lime
25:05
disease she was my very first Lyme disease uh uh interview M back uh 20
25:13
some odd years ago anyways the reason I bring her up is because the last time I
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interviewed her she's now talking to me about about
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she loves fishing she still fishes uh as as often as she can with no
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hooks and she's gone into she has a name for it Peter she has a name for it it's called cuu to the kapoa no see see she
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she just loves the everything about the fish catching process except hooking the
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fish up so all she needs to do is is make contact with Fish And and that's
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that's her thing who's to say that after a decade of MLF type Tournament Fishing
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that somebody is going to come up with something similar to that you know it's all cyclical right who knows fishing
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tournament where I saw one I get I was close to a 5 on the honor basis right I mean we
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thought we thought livewells were going to be the next big thing we thought that's it we've hit it we're at the
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Pinnacle of of fish management with for sure at the time we did knows please
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don't mistake though the the tournament Anglers it's in their best interest to
26:29
keep their fish as perfect as possible so the the Anglers themselves these tournament guys that are they want to
26:35
get that fish from point A to point B they know what they're up against from Kingston to meville and they got to go through Lake Ontario and all that stuff
26:41
so they're working their asses off at keeping their fish alive because they will lose weight which loses money so so
26:47
they do don't they also love they also love the fishery they also are conservationist most tournament
26:54
Anglers that conservation is at the top of the list just I just want to give the props to the to the ter Anglers because
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they deserve it so anyways uh interesting interesting uh observation
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that was all posted on the YouTube version of this show right am I right
27:12
well looks likea you right yeah says Mitch C 5538 via YouTube on the Eric
27:19
Lindros episode yes sir right now that's uh that's good so we have another source of uh Gathering uh stuff like that and I
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love it man it just keeps keeps growing speaking of keeping growing uh the
27:32
podcast network is on the on a tear uh boys the boys right there uh them are
27:40
the ugly Pike podcast boys that you see behind us or at least that's their that's their
27:46
episode um featuring Chris and Frank as the hosts these are two real fanatical
27:53
musky Anglers I know it's called The Ugly Pike but believe me they're all about musky well they're now uh honored
28:02
to bring on a new sponsor to that podcast um show uh called
28:08
aoko and apparently it's Canada's Premier Pike and musky shop I say apparently I mean that I mean that's but
28:16
um according to everything that we've been able to see it might even be the only shop in all of Canada that
28:23
specializes and is only uh making musky and Pike gear available I went online
28:29
and looked at them today it's nice looking uh everything about very good the their online presence is really good
28:35
they their inventory is insane because you know you know yourself with all that stuff that you know there the sky the
28:41
limit of craziness of these big giant baits and all that and there's more and more baits uh for musky that are being
28:46
designed built and they're based at a very close to well they're on Montreal Island so I think I don't know if you call it Montreal but they're very close
28:53
to Montreal which is fantastic musky area right then and there so um yeah
28:58
check them out I think it might be the most underrated musky fishery in North America I'll be honest with you we don't
29:05
hear a lot about it but you and I both have had personal experiences there to know that there are gigantic musky I
29:12
think a lot of the the guides especially there keep it quiet yeah maybe that's it they're all booked up they got a full
29:18
booking of all year long so why you know why tell everybody uh anyways uh isoko
29:24
Canada now presents uh the ugly Pike podcast and the episode we wanted to highlight real quick is episode 153
29:32
which I believe you're seeing on the screen right now for all the those folks who went over to YouTube to watch us
29:37
live you actually have it up on the screen because it features a good friend of ours who has been on our show several
29:43
times uh Dr Stephen cook and uh he talks about with and it must have freaked
29:49
these guys out right to have Dr Cook come on their show and talk about mood phases cuz musky Anglers are all about
29:56
the moon the lar tables the max the primary the Lesser like they got this
30:02
whole major minor all that stuff right and um if uh Dr Cook gave them the goods
30:08
like he did on our uh show those boys got freaked out real bad but you might want to rather than us give it away go
30:15
check that out it's episode 153 and 54 apparently was a two-parter with Dr Cook
30:21
uh you want to you want to maybe maybe go there and listen to this one it's a good one I like that winter biology
30:26
stuff too that's kind of stuff that you don't ever think about you in the offseason of the fishing and just learning about the fish itself so uh in
30:34
the news on fishing canada.com uh this one just keeps rearing its ugly head it will not go
30:40
away what a [ __ ] look at him he's just he looks like you can't say that I can't no what a knob what a that's
30:48
better all right uh in the news uh is this one uh Infamous Walley cheater that's the guy
30:55
right there Chase Kaminsky right there in case you want to know his name Chase Kaminsky uh he was the one along with a
31:04
partner now I guess partner is not involved in this one but anyways they cheated in that big walleye Series in
31:10
the tournament which was eventually held on Lake Eerie and uh they were almost
31:15
they're lucky they got out of there without being lynched because it looked like a bit of a mob scene when they he
31:22
ran that guy ran he ran to the truck and locked the doors his partner took it all took all the [ __ ] as you're find out a
31:27
little later on on the program with our special guest uh as we mentioned the CEO officer CEO officer um from um Arizona
31:36
and Montana a lot of these guys are uh career criminals so what I mean by that
31:43
is not all poachers but but most poachers are just criminals and a
31:50
criminal is a criminal is a criminal and this guy showed his true colors because
31:56
he now stands accused of deer poaching so it
32:01
wasn't enough that he committed a crime uh in the Walley World but now he's
32:07
moved because he got caught by the way what did he end up getting do you remember what he got for this it was a
32:13
federal uh anybody know what happened on that yeah they lost their licenses in Pennsylvania I know that big deal I
32:20
think they might have paid they lost their $80,000 boat I know that they had to pay like $20,000 in fines or the
32:27
equivalent in volunteer okay work or something like that so they get a bit of a wakeup call anyway right anyways that
32:34
wasn't enough no it wasn't enough they said hey
32:40
I need to get some attention in the hunting field now I've done the fishing now let me move my focus to hunting and
32:47
uh went out and started poaching white tear white tail deer bucks somebody
32:53
accused him of it so somebody that knew him yeah um knew Comm reported he killed a number of white
32:59
tailed deer bucks all while hunting out of season after illegal shooting hours and without a license so good guy good
33:07
conservation guy right there the wardens who followed him um found five now they
33:12
call they're still calling him the accused because these charges have not
33:17
been tried in a court of law yet uh so up until now we can only call him the
33:23
accused but uh apparently they found five mounted bucks uh in his possession and they are
33:31
thinking that they were shot at night during non-hunting season for these
33:38
animals yeah good guy really good guy unbelievable now we're we're reporting
33:43
on what's been he's been caught for duh most gu's been doing his whole life
33:48
let's be honest those are five white tals probably in the last year he probably does five type white tailes a year he does all kinds of Walley
33:56
infractions he does bass I guarantee you this guy is just a lifer as my wife would call him frequent flyer into the
34:02
into the system you know what I mean criminal criminal career career criminal and I'm sure he also uh shoplifts at the
34:08
local uh 7-Eleven too yeah he probably does he had uh there was some other stuff uh smoed on we don't need to do
34:16
all this stuff no it's all there at fishing candidate October 22 kamsky was charged with stalking and harassing a
34:22
woman after he allegedly sent her harassing text message and followed her um and then in February Chase Kaminsky
34:28
along with Kaden Kaminsky his 18-year-old son were charged with conspiracy conspiracy to commit forgery
34:35
and related charges after they passed fake $100 bills in a bowling alley I told you he was a [ __ ] uh Sam's
34:41
going to share his personal experiences coming up here very shortly uh with the
34:46
criminal uh career criminals like this I'm going to ask Sam about that and the night how did they know he shot them at
34:53
night you know what I mean I have to ask him that question good question all right this week's fan question speaking of question submitted by Kyle Benning of
35:02
Iowa now is it a coincidence that uh cuz I know Dean uh reaches into the 45
35:09
gallon drum and pulls these out randomly is it a coincidence that uh all of the
35:14
this whole show except for you and I this whole show is All American yeah which is fine I'm not suggesting that's a bad thing Kyle Benning is from Iowa we
35:23
we love our American audience we do they've been writing in a lot they've you know that's a good thing I love it I
35:29
think it's fantastic so they're all in one drum then you don't have a separate drum for us no I I mix them all in good
35:34
for you it's a North American drum oh good for you yeah God bless you are we going to spread out of North America do we have uh anything else is there
35:41
anybody that's listening from an international Dr yeah yeah do we have that we talk about that okay I'd like to see like a question from Japan or
35:48
something like that'd be that'd be awesome Kyle Benning from Iowa boy this
35:53
group can get off track pretty quick at it that's what it's all about buddy that's podcast are all about right there via email uh submits this week's
36:01
question um he sent it to info@ fishing canada.com that's where you too can
36:08
submit a question and perhaps if your uh moons and planets all align Dean when he
36:16
reaches down into his 45g drum may pull your question out come on now we may be talking about you here next but if you
36:23
don't submit a question it ain't going to happen for sure uh Kyle in from Iowa wants to know or States I recently
36:31
bought a fishing kayak to a better access my local River for fishing the
36:38
water levels are so low this year in Iowa due to the drought uh which makes
36:43
boat access extremely difficult that's the beauty of kayaks right you can put them in just about anywhere give me a
36:49
hell yeah give me a hell yeah thank you right uh my current life jacket is a
36:55
little bulky for wearing while paddling and fishing out of a uh tighter space
37:02
any life jacket recommendations for someone wanting to put Safety First on the water without sacrificing Mobility
37:09
or Comfort when fishing out of a kayak so great question my initial response
37:14
would be to wear one of the wonderful Inflatables that uh are all the rage
37:19
right now either manual or automatic however that would be my uneducated answer to you but
37:27
uh I will tell you that a better option than that are the actual kayak specific
37:34
life jackets that are available on the market now hey I'm wondering if he doesn't have one obviously Kyle doesn't
37:39
have obviously he doesn't have one these things are wonderful I mean you know how comfortable our Inflatables are yeah
37:45
they're very open everything's open on these yeah they're just incredible they they're not bulky uh you have total
37:53
movement in these things total movement they're short so you don't have that problem of a long life Jack which you
37:59
would even have with some of the Inflatables they're designed to sit up high gives you full yeah you're always
38:05
sitting right you've got full movement of your torso they are absolutely wonderful some of them come with little
38:11
pockets and stuff that you can further utilize because in a kayak you're you're kind of restricted for places to put
38:18
stuff especially small little things well these things come uh complete with little pockets and pouches that you can
38:25
use fully adjustable so you know whether you're 6'5 300 lb or or uh or me short
38:34
little you know either way that way these things are thank you these things are fully
38:40
adjustable and so they're infinitely adjustable which means so have you tried
38:45
one on oh I used s them so are they that comfortable like they really are oh my God they are incredible for kayaking I
38:54
would not recommend them for boating I would not recommend them for walking around you know like we do in fnc1 with
39:01
with our jackets uh I would not recommend them for that but for for paddling a
39:07
kayak and being able to still cast sitting down there is nothing nothing
39:13
better so that's what I'd recommend because I looked into the go back to the uh Inflatables and I tried looking this
39:19
up and the only answer I could get is that in Whitewater kaying it's illegal
39:25
toally inflatable can't use it so I don't know about just regular kaying maybe you can maybe you can't I didn't find anything that's a
39:31
really good point he makes and something else that should be taken into account Angelo if you are going to use the
39:39
Inflatables uh kaying is probably the one vessel where I would recommend that you get the automatic oh yeah as opposed
39:47
to manual inflate uh because you really should get the aut because there is a risk in a in a kayak of of always being
39:54
you know tipping and especially if it's not a sit on top of kayak if you're sitting in the kayak you generally tend
40:01
when you tip to to go completely under and that's when your head might come in contact with a rock that would mean
40:08
you're not wearing a helmet which would be stupid anyways but if you're not that's when you could get knocked out
40:13
and if you have a manual inflate life jacket on it's like not wearing one that's why maybe I think in kayaks maybe
40:20
it does have to be an automatic yeah period what if what if they were stuck in the kayak though if they somehow got
40:26
wedged in there and the thing popped up but you couldn't get out because your life jacket blew up in there that's a
40:33
great question I don't know how to answer that one that's if you had have given me some advanced notice I might
40:38
have been to very organic research we're very organic we we we bring problems out and if we can't answer them we'll get
40:44
somebody else to write in and I don't know and I also wonder how many jurisdictions there are that make helmet
40:50
wearing on a kayak mandatory well not not fishing kayaks you never see guys I mean I'm watching a lot of these guys
40:56
lately doing and never they don't wear helmets they only the Whitewater kayakers that I know of wear helmets wow
41:01
so the fishing guys they got fishing hats on fishing Canada hats there you saw them perhaps you heard of them 20 b
41:07
20 bucks a pop winter sale on right now I it's something we should look into so that
41:13
we're not uh I'm going to get I'm going to look into it one day cuz I'm going to buy a fishing kayak are you I my retirement is going to be part of when
41:19
I'm getting nice and you know out an AG the the pedal ones yeah I think so or whatever the petal ones I would think so
41:25
at least that maybe electric motor one cuz I'm going to be getting old obviously but yeah I think it' be so cool for you it' be perfect cuz you get
41:31
all that nice exercise work out you know damn right and be and get into those lakes that nobody else can get into
41:38
hello I often wonder with kayakers that fish though because they are they're and I
41:47
don't even know maybe they don't tip maybe they're not as Tippy as I making him sound to be um but how do you take
41:54
care of all of the stuff on your kayak if it well they don't travel like us that's for sure we got 82 tackle boxes
42:01
38 rods and ridiculous amount of everything but but they they organize it quite well I think they really they par
42:07
it down to whatever they absolutely need they have the rods behind them so they learn to cast knowing that the rods are
42:12
sticking up and the rod holders behind them and all that stuff so you you know you and I catch them freaking things
42:18
every cast leave that thing there for so I've seen them fly fishing out of those
42:23
things oh my God see I have no idea on that one no idea speaking of fly fishing was nice to see Colin that uh so that
42:30
was the only well not only that was one of the positives of that trip cuz we had a lot of negatives of that trip so Colin and Carol Colin was great to see him we
42:37
had a good chat with Colin mckuin the new fly Fisher in case anybody's wondering uh fantastic guy certainly the
42:43
highest profile fly angler in this part of the world no doubt about it great program by the way if you ever get a
42:48
chance to check it out um the new fly Fisher some of the most spectacular
42:54
cinematography in the fishing industry that that you'll ever see yeah let alone great fishing but uh we had a chance to
42:59
spend some time we had a coffee uh spend an hour and a half having coffee with
43:06
call [Music]
43:13
[Music] anyways there's an adventure just
43:19
outside these walls it's something you'll hate to leave and can't wait to get back to it's a place where memories
43:26
are made and bonds are forged for some it's hitting the trails for others it's a weekend at the lake it's a place full
43:33
of campfires and quality time this year takes some time to reconnect with friends family and nature no matter what
43:40
Adventures await you Coleman has the gear you need visit Coleman canada.ca to
43:46
gear up today the outside is calling answer the
43:54
call back in 20 2016 Frank and I had a vision to amass the single largest
43:59
database of musky angling education material anywhere in the world our dream was to harness the knowledge of this
44:06
amazing community and share it with passionate Anglers just like you thus the ugly Pike podcast was born and
44:13
quickly grew to become one of the top fishing podcasts in North America step into the world of angling adventures and
44:20
embrace the thrill of the catch with the ugly Pike podcast join us on our quest to understand what makes us different as
44:26
Anglers and to uncover what it takes to go after the infamous fish of 10,000 casts the ugly Pike podcast isn't just
44:33
about fishing it's about creating a tight-knit community of passionate Anglers who share the same love for the
44:38
sport through laughter through camaraderie and an unwavering Spirit of Adventure this podcast will bring people
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together subscribe now and never miss a moment of our angling Adventures tight lines everyone find ugly Pike now on
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Spotify Apple podcast or wherever else you get your podcast
45:01
all right let's get to our uh guest uh welcoming uh I think one of the most
45:06
interesting guests we've ever had on the show by the way I'm just going to go on record right now agree we don't even know them it doesn't matter it doesn't
45:13
matter I've read the book and uh I got to tell you this character is uh is
45:18
destined to be an outdoor Journal radio Superstar uh welcome to the program Sam
45:24
Lowry how are you bud good thank you Angelo and Pete good morning to both of you guys good morning
45:30
sir thanks for taking the time first of all I want to I want to tell the audience that uh we had a little bit of
45:35
problem getting you on not because of you but because of our schedule last week got all screwed up and a couple
45:42
times we had to postpone uh so we really appreciate you doing this uh with us now
45:47
did I hear right from our producer Dean you're actually out hunting or on a hunting uh uh location right now yeah I
45:55
came back to uh enjoy Thanksgiving with my wife's family and that happens to be
46:00
in Northwest Iowa where it's just loaded with ring neck pheasants nice uh just to
46:07
bring people up to speed we mentioned earlier on in the program but just to now that you're here uh Sam aside from
46:14
being an accomplished author that we're going to talk about here in just a moment uh he serves with the Western
46:19
Regional directorship for pheasants forever and quail forever hence out
46:25
pheasant fishing there's a surprise he go for hunting or for hunting yeah um
46:30
served also as the Director of conservation for the teller a wildlife
46:35
Refugee in Western Montana nice uh we're no strangers to Montana absolutely what
46:40
a beautiful beautiful state love it uh 21 21y year career with Arizona Game and
46:47
Fish Department and that's really the Genesis of your book uh I'm assuming uh
46:53
the book is called an Arizona game Ranger remembering the Outlaws and how
46:59
aptly titled is that it's just that just draws you in right there doesn't you say oh I got to read this um so Sam first of
47:07
all let me tell you a little bit uh about Pete and I our beliefs we um we've
47:12
been immersed in the outdoors forever and we know a lot of conservation
47:17
officers in this part of the world and I've and I've interviewed so many of
47:22
them and I've always maintained um and after reading your book now it's confirmed it's official the most
47:29
dangerous job on the planet is being in the conservation of wildlife uh there's
47:36
no doubt in my mind at all uh based on what I uh I read in that book so hats
47:42
off to you for that my friend yeah you know I've I've heard that numerous times throughout my career
47:50
and I I always kind of challenge that back and say at least when you're you
47:55
know Wildlife officer and you are expecting perhaps the people you check
48:00
to be armed you're you're expecting that whereas you think of some of the you
48:06
know the city police officers and highway patrolman and Troopers that just
48:11
pull over people that that necessarily aren't expecting that and then it pops up right right right what about though
48:17
Sam what about comparing a conservation officer to a a SWAT team
48:24
officer that's well I think yeah I mean I just again I think you're looking at a kind of a highly skilled professional
48:31
that's dealing with what I would call far worse criminal Behavior than those
48:37
perhaps taking advantage of of some Wildlife opportunities you know and the
48:43
the trafficking of of illegal wildlife and things like that at some point perhaps don't hold the same degree of
48:49
danger is you know drug cartels and and kidnappings and things like that that
48:55
SWAT teams are typically called up for yeah yeah and they know going in how bad it is like Sam doesn't know if he's
49:01
pulling over a guy he has a shotgun or a handgun or maybe nothing you know it's not like when they go in they but so
49:06
yeah I'll give you an example from personal experience uh Sam and Pete uh I
49:12
I used to go into alanin park twice a year with a bunch of guys pretty Rowdy guys you know we were young and and it's
49:19
that you know once or twice a year you get together with the boys and there's usually a bit of alcohol involved and
49:24
and and always a bit of Al I want to say I didn't want to say but there's usually
49:30
a bit of alcohol involved and and we'd always be in the very bowels of the gonin park like it would take us days of
49:38
of getting paddling walking hiking carrying like we were in the middle of
49:44
nowhere you know and there'd be sometimes some trips we'd have 12 13 14 of us in Camp and every once in a while
49:53
we'd have a CEO pop in unannounced just pop in howdy boys how you doing and I
49:59
often thought man this guy has got a set of balls he's got a set of balls first of all I'm sure there was a bit of
50:06
surveillance involved because he didn't just happen to stumble Out of the Woods into our camp he must have checked us
50:12
out a little bit from from the woods and he knew we were a bunch of Rowdy idiots who had probably been drinking that
50:18
night or whatever the case may be but yet there he was bouncing in the camp
50:23
you know like that takes extraordinary courage as far as I but it's a delivery
50:29
thing too I'm sure Sam's going to tell us that it's all about making a rair with these people right you guys cosos
50:35
that you yeah go ahead Sam well you know in a case like that
50:41
where you're you're way out in the booties and and he happens to just pop up uh I can assure you he he did some
50:48
homework that's right and and and knew that there wasn't you know a felon in your in your hunting group and probably
50:56
was doing just a a general check um and a lot of times when we we would work
51:03
undercover and and it look for let's just say I think there's one of the
51:08
stories in the book about working a dove hunt which in Arizona you know draws the
51:15
masses I mean 50,000 people will come over from Southern California to hunt
51:21
doves for a weekend well in that case you kind of Target those people that
51:26
have you know popped one too many tops and they're a little loud and you're
51:31
going there's the ones that are going to do it and you just kind of sit to the side and watch them for a while and then
51:38
you you go in and do what you need to do wow the courage is incredible as far as
51:44
I'm concerned man you guys are hats off to you Sam do you have as many just in general is there as many feel-good
51:51
stories as there is Criminal stories you know what I mean like when you pull people over and they just yeah is there
51:58
oh I can I tell you the the Feelgood stories far outweigh the the bad guys okay um yeah I think you know you look
52:05
at the the general contacts you're making as a conservation officer you're you know you're out there for Public
52:12
Safety and and making sure people are enjoying the time that they're spending in the woods and a lot of times you're
52:17
you're helping them out you're pointing them in the right direction uh anything from helping them find a lost hunter or
52:24
lost kid to to uh fixing their vehicle I mean yeah it's it it it's a not a rare
52:32
thing but let's just say the the bad guys certainly don't dominate you know
52:37
your your your time in the field okay that's a great point because um I I mean
52:43
the majority of our exposure to cosos is limited to what we've seen on TV or read
52:49
in books Etc um one thing I did notice especially from the television uh
52:54
exposure Ure that the cosos are getting in various programs about cosos is that their demeanor is a little different
53:00
than a traffic cop right like you guys you guys are always they always do
53:07
seem to be extra friendly you always seem to be a little more jovial whereas you know a a street cop uh that
53:15
especially a young street cop tends to have a bit of a Swagger that he'd like to display is always on display like a
53:23
bit of a peacock you guys don't do that from what I can tell you guys are are
53:29
and maybe that's part maybe that's your your Mo maybe that's how you get on the
53:35
good side not knowing the situation that you're walking into um but you have a
53:40
different demeanor than regular cops would yeah you know you could you can
53:45
tell when you've been in the field long enough and you make a contact and you have a person with an attitude you can
53:52
glean that quickly and and let's just say you do find one with an attitude
53:58
some resentment for Authority or the uniform you're wearing well yeah I'm not handing them an ice cream cone I'm gonna
54:06
to strengthen it up a little bit and let them know I'm there to take care of whatever issue I'm there for but
54:12
conversely you you beat the person just on the shores of a lake fishing with their kid and you make the contact
54:20
Pleasant you want that kid to remember that CEO was hey that was kind of a neat erience yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah for
54:27
sure you know what though and and Sam will probably agree with this somewhat I
54:33
think the the common police officer the traffic officer not they're they're very common around we see them all the time
54:39
and they probably get a lot more [ __ ] thrown at them then guy like Sam you know I mean because they see the people
54:44
people hate cops for some reason like I don't know why even people that aren't true criminals hate cops like what what
54:49
the hell they're they're doing the best they can and and they just pull that attitude right off the bat here here's my license here what can pull me over
54:55
for you know what I mean probably happens all the time they don't get to see meet up with a CEO well these a lot of these people will never see a CEO in
55:01
their life right but but they have those attitude about them and and like Sam says when they have that attitude you know the cop's going to put back at them
55:07
right and so and justifiably so Sam here in Canada and I don't know
55:13
how it is in the US um I'm told I was told a long time ago that cosos are the
55:20
only law enforcement um branch that don't need a warrant to go into a
55:28
person's tent or his cabin or his truck or or his duffel bag or whatever it is
55:33
like you guys don't need like nobody can pull the warrant trick on you where you're out in the middle of uh someplace
55:39
and you say okay open up that cooler they can't say well where's your warrant because you guys don't need one is that
55:45
true it is it is with this caveat that there has to be some kind of a probable
55:51
cause or reasonable belief that uh that warrants that that that looking in other
56:00
words if if I saw a guy swerv through a red
56:05
light and I pulled him over for a traffic violation which which Wildlife
56:10
officer can do um and there's no expectation that he's been hunting or
56:15
fishing I don't have the right to go into his trunk okay the person that's
56:21
out there leaving a lake with 19 rods hanging out of the back of his truck and
56:28
I pull him over now I can look in his eye chest I have a a reasonable suspicion that that there's probably
56:35
some fish or game in his possession so yeah we have a greater leeway but it's
56:40
certainly not and and one that should never be abused right uh because it
56:45
gives the wildlife officer that little tiny Step Up when it's warranted yeah
56:52
yeah I hear and listen I I I do that out there because I think I think of all of
56:58
the uh Enforcement Officers the conservation officers the one that should have a little more leeway only
57:04
because of the environment that you guys work in versus regular um officer so
57:10
yeah um let's get into some of the stories because I think that's what everybody's waiting for I think the
57:15
audience is going to love this first of all once again uh the book is called um uh the days as an Arizona game Ranger
57:25
um remembering the Outlaws remembering the Outlaws I love that I love that um
57:30
before we get into stories though just give us a little bit about the book How long did it take you to to put this
57:36
together it it's kind of funny I you know I I often was found telling stories
57:41
to family and friends about my my days as a game of fish officer and routinely
57:46
I'd be told why don't you write that down CAD you know you're not going to be around forever and you're starting to decompose a rapid
57:53
race I started putting pen to paper now here's a funny thing I I was on another
58:00
podcast where they asked me this question how did you find the time to write it and I made the comment that
58:06
when I went to all these meetings and my buddies were down at the watering hole I
58:12
being the good guy am went up to my room and wrote the book and avoided such uh
58:18
lures as the watering goal and and they called foul on that right away exactly I
58:24
was going to the same right so it just took you know you sit
58:29
down with a pen and paper and you start start thinking about the stories and and then I had still many contacts you know
58:38
that I could rely on for some information that I was lacking and and little by little I just started putting
58:44
it together and really with the intent of leaving a legacy of what I did for my
58:50
kids to enjoy and and know um and it's kind of blossomed a little bit I mean this this thing I had a guy told me
58:57
other day he was flying to Alaska to go fishing and the guy sitting next to him
59:02
was reading the book oh wow cool that's cool that's awesome how
59:07
long did it take from start to it probably took me about six months to okay to get it all put together and
59:14
edited and then my daughter is a self-publishing uh uh site that she did
59:20
and then my other daughter I have four and and the other one did the little pencil sketches in it so it's kind of a
59:26
little family project nice excellent now there are 29 stories or short stories uh
59:31
within the book I'm assuming that would be we could call those chapters uh although each story does have a a bit of
59:38
a break in it as well and most of them are dealing with poaching Wildlife violations that kind of thing we can't
59:45
go through them all but there are some here that uh that we've got highlighted that we'd like you maybe to expand on if
59:51
you could uh the first one that we've got is the Roosevelt Fish Market story
59:58
uh tell the audience a little bit about that would you well there was a a tip that came in that uh gave us the
1:00:06
information that a guy might be catching way too many fish and selling them which
1:00:11
was against the law any commercialization of fish or Wildlife um in this Lake in central Arizona and so
1:00:19
they they were looking for an undercover officer to go camp and and hopefully get to know this
1:00:25
individual and see if see if we could determine whether or not he was doing that and I had just gotten to Arizona so
1:00:33
a lot of times people they they they look for someone that's not well known to work under cover
1:00:39
cases and I let my hair down a little bit grew a half a beard looked kind of shabby and before long I I was able to
1:00:47
actually get to know the the suspect camped near him uh ultimately offered
1:00:55
him a couple of six packs of beer and he took me out fishing a couple times and and you know I was right there with him
1:01:02
sometimes I'm thinking you know what in the heck am I doing uh he's talking
1:01:07
about you know if this game of fish officers who I knew in the area they come
1:01:13
by let me do the talking you know and because every once in a while they can
1:01:19
be real real [ __ ] is what he said you know I'm sitting there with him go
1:01:24
you got one in your boat oh my God that's awesome but it was funny that
1:01:30
that one ended up being he was just I mean he was catching a lot of fish there were some violations having to do with method of
1:01:37
take but he was never selling fish so I I was able to confirm that no he he needed a few citations which they
1:01:44
ultimately got uh the funny part was a month or so after I had left and I was
1:01:52
back in that general area Patrol rolling in full uniform and I went to a little gas
1:01:58
station to get a pop or some chips or something I at the counter I look over
1:02:04
and and here he is I call him scruffy oh my god did he recognize you did not
1:02:10
recognize he look right at me hello officer right hey how you doing wow
1:02:15
that's funny that is funny so they know sorry an so on that little sting or
1:02:21
whatever you guys got some charges and done and that when all a said and done you leave the scene and that guy never
1:02:28
knew ever that you were a CEO to begin with they just somehow got some evidence somehow you know how do they get the
1:02:33
evidence how do you prove you did it you know in that case
1:02:38
he he was told you know you've been you've been H okay and the guy the guy
1:02:43
that was with you was a plant and okay and here's what we got cuz they they had there were some marijuana stuffed up
1:02:49
into a shotgun barrel in the front of his boat and you know I told him to get rid of that make the place safe and so
1:02:56
yeah they they had to say that that guy in that white van with California plates
1:03:01
was an officer okay okay Sam sense I don't know whether um that story
1:03:08
connects with this or whether maybe one of the other chapters in the book but did you ever run into anybody who you
1:03:15
got the report that they were doing something nefarious uh in
1:03:20
Wildlife but you you infiltrated them and you find out that that they really
1:03:26
didn't know they were doing anything wrong in other words this is not a criminal this is just a regular dude who
1:03:32
maybe just doesn't understand the law doesn't think it's a big deal like like
1:03:37
in other words are they they're not all just perss that want to uh rape and
1:03:44
pillage Wildlife are they well let me just say this if if there's an undercover officer working working you
1:03:53
uh there there's probable cause that you you're doing something wrong U the guy
1:03:58
that we just talked about was probably the closest to what you're describing
1:04:03
that you know he wasn't a real bad guy but for the most part and I I always say
1:04:09
this that you know the average Wildlife violation is not something where someone
1:04:15
purposely set out to violate they they're what we call opportun opportunist
1:04:22
poachers they were out you know to shoot a uh a white tail and a big mu deer Buck
1:04:30
came by that they just couldn't resist and they pull the trigger and they made the wrong decision to try to cover it up
1:04:36
but you know are they the real bad guy that's that's uh you know taking you
1:04:42
know unguided hunters and taking Wildlife across state lines or or
1:04:47
International borders you know the real bad guys uh they know exactly what
1:04:54
they're doing and it's a small percentage but they yeah there's no doubt they're there to to really do
1:05:01
damage to the resource without any re remorse at all yeah Sam those guys I
1:05:08
just texted my wife in case anybody's watching us because my wife works at the police department criminal records over here and they have what they call
1:05:14
frequent flyers they show up all the time on the list year but after you're
1:05:19
laughing because you probably know exactly what I'm talking about when in the world of conservation are the same
1:05:25
thing happening out there is there always these guys that show up and show up because the ones you're talking about are the badasses and and you know one
1:05:31
guy that accidentally screws up he probably will never do it again do they always show up more and more and more all the time yeah in fact it's funny you
1:05:38
mention it because I I in preparation for this interview I called a friend of mine who still works for Arizona Game
1:05:43
and Fish Department and he he referred to me he says you remember the such and such a case that we did you know 20
1:05:51
years ago and you know we we gave some pretty hefty fines and they lost their licenses for a few years he says their
1:05:59
kids are doing the same thing now God just unreal yeah unreal yeah he says
1:06:05
here we are doing the and it's a whole Suite of new officers catching The Offspring they pass it on that's crazy
1:06:12
think about that totally what did you inherit I know how to poach deer but isn't that something because I mean
1:06:18
let's take the wildlife aspect out of it you know professional criminals they do
1:06:23
they hand it down to Generations that unfortunately do you feel that we've got
1:06:29
this under control Sam in in other words do you think that the punishment fits
1:06:34
the crime in in terms of game and Wildlife Conservation no no I still
1:06:40
don't I I think um what what's happened and slowly evolved and I don't I'm not
1:06:46
really quite sure how it works uh up in in your provinces but within the states
1:06:53
a lot of lot of times you know Wildlife violations fall to the county level or
1:07:00
or they're held by the County prosecutor in the area where the violation occurred
1:07:06
and those typically are are not high priority cases those those uh
1:07:12
prosecutors are you know uh trying to prosecute rapists and you know murderers
1:07:17
and H you know those kinds of things and so a lot of times you work your tail off
1:07:24
trying to to make a case that ultimately gets handed to a County prosecutor that
1:07:30
in many times is just plea bargain down right and cases are you know charges are dismissed and and what fines are levied
1:07:38
are are somewhat minimal now I will say that there are certain movements to add
1:07:45
more felonies to some of the wildlife violations again that's going to be used
1:07:50
as a plea bargain chip to to knock it from a fonus violation to a
1:07:56
misdemeanor so where that where I see the the ban I guess thrust of starting
1:08:03
to to to whack some of these violators is the Civil aspects and the loss of
1:08:10
their hunting licenses and in in in the states there's a wildlife
1:08:16
compact that if you roke somebody for taking an elk unlawfully in Arizona uh
1:08:23
40 other states honor that revocation and that really hurts that person now
1:08:28
they're they're done for you know three to five to maybe 10 years um and so I
1:08:34
think you're seeing the Civil penalties um that in many cases gam fish
1:08:40
commissions take up on against the Violator uh are are doing more damage to
1:08:45
persuade people not to do this than the criminal outcome I was say my thoughts on this is
1:08:54
is it I would assume that if it was a somewhat law- abing citizen it was a mistake it took that elk at the wrong
1:09:00
time or whatever he gets his hand slapped and he listens but a true poacher would they care if they have a
1:09:06
license or not do they really it's I think it's a really good point I I can tell you there was one guy it's it's in
1:09:13
the book um he he just was an absolute bad bad dude and and I actually was
1:09:20
horseback doing some uh Wild life surveys in a real remote part of Arizona
1:09:27
and I found these uh well I found Ravens and I found some bald eagles moving around a canyon that would indicate
1:09:34
possibly something was dead and I found these big treble hooks I mean they were
1:09:40
you know an inch inch and a half uh wide with meat scraps and they were all tied
1:09:47
with metal leaders and this guy was trying to catch anything he possibly could I could see
1:09:53
where where he caught a lion I could see where he caught an eagle wow and and I
1:09:58
mean there was no regard when we ended up uh you know catching the guy which was a lengthy
1:10:05
investigation uh it wasn't six months later that we heard he was doing similar activities in New Mexico so I I think
1:10:12
you're right I think they're they're going to go further and deeper into the woods they probably learned their lesson
1:10:19
not to tell anybody about it and they're still up to the old old uh old tricks of
1:10:24
the trade which is is a bad thing just it's you the things that you
1:10:30
must have seen in your career just uh I mean we're just brushing through a couple of them real quick here but I'm sure every one of them has got an
1:10:37
incredible story uh behind it uh talk to us about the uh the other one I've got listed here in your book you you uh were
1:10:44
called a coyote son of a [ __ ] uh is the title of the chapter talk to us about
1:10:51
that that one was I I will admit that was one of my my funnier ones I look
1:10:57
back on there the the uh the story really centers around a a couple of of
1:11:03
Mountainland Hunters uh that were were also running bears with hounds um and
1:11:10
and they had taken a bear illegally and left the the the carcass
1:11:16
they skinned the bear and and then all this was way out in the boonies again um
1:11:21
and I had an informant that kind of bu me in on the general location and some of the
1:11:27
specifics but I had no reason to go to them and and and you know accuse them of
1:11:34
being involved with this bear without possibly you know uh uh I guess exposing
1:11:41
my informant and so I just kept thinking how am I going to do this how am I going to do this well I had picked up a bunch
1:11:48
of 9 mimer casings from the crime scene and and removed some of the the slugs
1:11:54
from the bear which oh by the way when I reached my hand in was about a 4 day old
1:12:00
carcass just wiggling with maggots really a sight to see and when you when
1:12:07
you walk up on a skin bear you got to First make sure it's not a human exactly yeah wow yeah anyway so I finally just
1:12:16
put the the two of them in the vicinity they were out lion hunting again and I
1:12:22
just made a stop just a visit with him had noticed a 9mm pistol sitting on the
1:12:27
dashboard okay and I I in just small chat or just talk said hey we're we're
1:12:32
thinking about switching over to 9 millimeters you know how do you think that gun shoots and he said well you
1:12:39
shoot it what do you think so I I took the pistol and shot it several times all
1:12:45
the time watching where the empties went and had our little conversation and they left and I collected the empties s sent
1:12:53
them into the crime lab with the ones that I collected the crime scene and the rest was a knock on the door with a
1:13:00
search War oh that's awesome that is good thinking Sam I love that and he did he called me a coyote
1:13:07
son of a [ __ ] no kidding I would have too no that's great did you ever get
1:13:13
busted did you ever get busted on on one of these undercover deals where you've been you know let's say you've been you
1:13:18
infiltrated this camp for a few days and somebody recognized you or some
1:13:24
somehow busted you on it yeah there and I don't know it was uh it was one that
1:13:29
we were working some illegal bear activity and we ended up with the the
1:13:35
bad guy we actually uh spent the the night in his house and that that's
1:13:41
that's another whole story and uh when when he finally did get busted we we
1:13:47
didn't get him on that particular event but down the road he got busted and they took his his uh kind of like phone or
1:13:55
address book and my undercover name in that case was Sam laroo and they found
1:14:02
that and then next to it was game won [ __ ] yeah so well it's a good thing
1:14:09
he didn't know that when I was there because he was kind of a bad dude wow but you never got busted like right in
1:14:15
the game itself in the middle of a game did you you re you did your you did your
1:14:20
rehearsal and and excuse me in uh in many cases and I didn't do a great deal
1:14:26
of undercover work but knowing that the question would come up you know hey you're not a game W are you or you know
1:14:33
I think you're a game or yeah well you know what are you talking about Jesus what would I be doing that
1:14:39
for I mean get ready to respond and practice that just like you would your golf swing yeah we've got a friend of
1:14:46
ours uh his son is was an undercover uh police officer and I had I
1:14:52
had you know several discussions with him while he was doing these jobs on
1:14:58
just because you guys have got to be we we civilians have no idea what that
1:15:05
would feel like but you got to be in a different space when when you take on
1:15:10
that Persona that character that you're portraying you're almost on that line
1:15:16
are you not like you have to be so good at your job that some people might look at you and say geez Sam I don't know I'm
1:15:22
a little worried about your Behavior right now because you you're convincing me that you're one of them I I had this
1:15:28
discussion with him I'm talking about Tim I know exactly and yeah he says yeah he says I lost myself so many times and
1:15:35
I had to really work hard at bringing myself back out of it have you experienced that I didn't I never worked
1:15:43
that deep but I knew undercover officers that did and there's no doubt I mean you
1:15:50
you in in one one case I know there was excuse me there was a couple of
1:15:56
undercover officers that were involved with some illegal reptile trafficking and I mean they they got
1:16:03
into some really deep deep illegal activity and and you know it's just a
1:16:09
it's a different mindset and they you know they they those those men and women
1:16:14
that do that uh you know they're not even part of the team you you don't see
1:16:19
them at meetings you don't see them at you know workshops I mean they're they're undercover and it's a I salute
1:16:26
them I mean it's a heck of a you hit the nail on the head I mean they got to
1:16:31
literally transform themselves into the same dirt ball they're trying to catch
1:16:36
yep yeah yep for sure it's that's a scary thought how do they how do they
1:16:41
choose these undercover agents Sam so you got in in the state of Arizona they
1:16:46
have a you know something heavy duty reptile thing like that how do they go about choosing these guys are yeah I
1:16:55
think that early on you know you have an interest let's just say you have an interest in wildlife and and and for me
1:17:01
when I started out I had no desire to be a game oron I wanted to be a water foul
1:17:07
biologist you know I wanted to study duck skis and swans and and I wanted to
1:17:12
work on a refuge and all of a sudden I found myself in the enforcement Arena
1:17:17
which I later recognized is probably one of the most valuable tools in the wild
1:17:23
life manager's bag is enforcement yeah and and I think as you go into that
1:17:29
field you know there's a certain spark in you that says you know I kind of want to kind of want to work
1:17:36
undercover and a lot of that time you probably get right out of the police academy and most of your you know
1:17:43
colleagues don't even know you're in it you yeah you can't you can't uh chance
1:17:50
uh people knowing you when when you're working for some of these really bad guys no different than I'm sure with
1:17:56
regular narcotics agents and things like that they're they're a different set of people for sure sure for sure uh
1:18:04
interesting I have to ask you about one more uh uh chapter in the book The uh
1:18:10
the Mud Puddle story is fascinating that's a good one that one that one is absolutely fascinating share that with
1:18:16
the audience with you yeah that one just was an interesting deal and it kind of
1:18:22
quick it's a long story but make it short there was a a slew of elk poaching
1:18:28
that occurred up in the district I was responsible for uh just shot and left
1:18:33
shot and left shot and left and and no leads you never never could find out any
1:18:40
good tips any good leads it was happening at night it was L likely an
1:18:46
automatic weapon of some kind uh but this went on for months and months and I
1:18:51
mean probably 20 plus elk got tipped over from what we could tell was the
1:18:58
same person and then uh one time I was coming home from a little evening uh of I
1:19:06
believe country western dancing where I had no alcohol no
1:19:14
none but just enough to put on the John Wayne uniformat and say I saw a spotlighter up
1:19:21
on this one Ridge going to go back it might be my bad guy and uh anyway I went
1:19:27
back out and I thought I had the guy I had him turned off this one and I could
1:19:32
hear shots and I and I could had him go off this one two trck road that I
1:19:39
thought was a dead end Road and I went down there to see if he went down it there was a big mud
1:19:45
puddle I got out of my G fish truck and I went up with a flashlight and I looked at the mud puddle to see if a vehicle
1:19:51
had driven through and and no no no one no there's no tracks going out there's no bubbles in
1:19:58
the water no I I I guess I lost him and it was about six months later
1:20:05
where I got a call from one of our investigators saying that they had a Narcotics officer up in Holbrook Arizona
1:20:13
that had an individual in in incarcerated in jail there that
1:20:18
mentioned he was involved with a bunch of elk poaching that the game of fish
1:20:24
officers you know never caught and and he was in there for a homicide he was in there for some kind
1:20:30
of a a charge of of murder in New Mexico and they just asked me you want to go
1:20:36
interview the guy and see if you could straighten out if he's the one and so I
1:20:41
I did I drove up there and guy comes out and his orange jump shoot and walking
1:20:47
down a hall into a little little room where I could interview him and and I I just she looked at him said so you you
1:20:54
know something about the El poaching he says yeah that was all me and I said why
1:20:59
and he said well I just I was high on meth all the time and I just like to kill [ __ ] and he he looked me in the eye said
1:21:07
I'll tell you one thing he goes you got a you got a game ORD out there with angel wings on and I said oh really what
1:21:14
what what's that about and he so one night one of your guys was right on top
1:21:19
of me and uh I was hiring a right and I went through this one little road and
1:21:26
parked and I had made up my mind that if he came through this road I was going to spray him he had an Uzi oh and he said
1:21:34
the guy got out with a flashlight went down and looked at this mud puddle and for some reason he never went on oh my
1:21:41
god wow that must have given you Goosebump Sam God I still get it you
1:21:47
when I tell you that and I you know I looked at him I should I tell him you know was me did you tell him or no no no
1:21:55
I never did oh my god when I was reading that same thing I had goosebumps I could
1:22:00
only try and and and imagine what was going through your head when you're looking at this guy you know in the eyes
1:22:07
and he's telling you that he's he almost pulled the trigger on you but not knowing that it was you my God that's
1:22:14
bone chilling absolutely bone that's a good story Sam oh my God glad you're on
1:22:20
the podcast buddy you never went through that puddle it's fun to fun fun to tell I'm glad I'm alive to tell
1:22:26
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1:23:13
episode well I was just going to say that you know you have got this incredible personality you're a
1:23:20
character you're you're an an absolute treat first of all let me just tell you to interview uh but but more than that
1:23:29
you're just a great allaround nice guy that's the image that you portray and I'm just wondering if
1:23:36
there's any younger folks out there who might be looking at getting involved in
1:23:42
the you know uh Wildlife Conservation uh end of it as a CEO is there any anything
1:23:50
you can pass on to them about the way they should be thinking about their future career and how they should behave
1:23:58
in that in that Co position that has stood you well by the way obviously uh
1:24:04
any advice you can give them you know I I really appreciate that question
1:24:09
because I I think as I uh have I just retired in June after 43 years in the Wy
1:24:16
field God and and I want probably the last three years or maybe four four or
1:24:22
five years I I really made it a passion to to to leave an imprint on that younger
1:24:30
generation and in fact this last week I taught a class at the University of Montana to to about 120 college kids on
1:24:39
careers in wildlife and one of the things I tell them is it it's a long journey everybody
1:24:49
thinks that you're going to get into this field and what retire in 20 years or it might take you five years to get a
1:24:57
job and but when it's all said and done you look back on it and and I still
1:25:03
carry a a a significant amount of passion for wildlife conservation and you can do that too you
1:25:10
can begin this journey knowing it's going to be a long journey and a diversified journey and and absolutely
1:25:17
get it done and with us as I said earlier with us baby boomers uh decomposing at a rapid rate there's
1:25:25
going to be plenty of jobs so you know you're going to have a good time so yeah yeah yeah I I always just impart that
1:25:32
with them that it's a it's a long journey slow down walk to the dance don't run to it and you're going to find
1:25:40
yourself that you you not only picked meaningful work you picked fun work and
1:25:45
it's it's a it's a great career don't ever look back and charge forward and
1:25:50
get it done that's what I tell them nice slow long and slow nice yeah yeah um
1:25:57
under curiosity you guys mentioned a law enforcement earlier on is there any
1:26:02
crossover between the two branches in other words do you get um do you see
1:26:09
regular police officers looking at your career that you've had and say you know
1:26:16
I might want to maybe make the move over to Wildlife enforcement as opposed to what I'm doing or the other way around
1:26:22
do any of your colleagues have any of your colleagues gotten so high from the
1:26:28
adrenaline rush of of doing what you did and say you know I'd like to apply this to maybe people as opposed to animals is
1:26:34
there a crossover at all you know what I I don't know real recent examples but I
1:26:40
do know that early on in my career uh a police officer particularly a highway
1:26:47
patrolman probably made twice as much as a game Orton and it was money driven for
1:26:53
some of these young people they they had whatever a little family and and a lot
1:26:58
of them chose to go you know to the the highway patrol side really for money the
1:27:04
ones that carried the passion the ones that had I was born and raised in the
1:27:10
outdoors and I get my batteries charged from being outdoors they don't change
1:27:16
and yeah I R run into many uh police officers that wish they would have gone
1:27:22
that route and and you know oh you got the dream job you know and and you could
1:27:28
have too you could have too just pursue it yeah yeah yeah yeah Good Sam have you ever have you ever worked in Canada or
1:27:35
cross-pollinated with our Canadian mnrs or anything like that yeah I was going to mention early on I when I was uh
1:27:43
probably in my early 30s my wife and three-month-old daughter Nicole took an
1:27:49
assignment with the Canadian Wildlife service in Grand Prairie Alberta to band Ducks nice and and I went up there and
1:27:57
we stayed at a little place called igloo in and I baned duck seven days a week I
1:28:03
think by the way by the way I think I stayed there I'm serious I think I stayed there I'm not kidding you oh God
1:28:12
the worst part about it was I had I had two interns one from Canada and one from
1:28:19
California and right next to the glue in was a wiggle bar where do you think my
1:28:25
intern come out and in any event I uh I I finished
1:28:32
that and then later on in my career I was staffed to the North American Wetlands Council uh which funds Wetland
1:28:40
projects in Mexico US and Canada and that gave me a great opportunity to
1:28:45
visit we funded projects in British Columbia Manitoba Saskatchewan and
1:28:52
Alberta and then uh those the ones that I went to see and then just Recreation
1:28:58
wise I spent 11 days up in Northern Quebec honey Caribou a few years ago
1:29:04
nice you know and I'll just say this that I just love the the Canadian people
1:29:11
I look at our neighbors above us and just say boy anytime I can get up there and spend time with you folks uh I I
1:29:18
would welcome it I was always very welcome myself nice nice to hear for sure thank you um we've I mentioned
1:29:25
earlier on Pete and I are no strangers to Montana we've done quite a bit of work there I think we've shot I'm going
1:29:32
to say a half a dozen episodes in the state of Montana and it's a pretty
1:29:37
special place as well when they uh when you read in their uh travel brochures
1:29:43
you know Big Sky country you don't understand it until
1:29:48
you visit Montana and then you all of a a sudden it just hits you I know why
1:29:54
they call this Big Sky because I don't know what it is but it looks different
1:29:59
when you're in the in the boonies in Montana and you look up gor you're you're on another
1:30:05
planet uh it is spectacular and uh what a great place to work what a great
1:30:11
backdrop to do what you've done for 40 some odd years man good for you yeah it
1:30:17
was a neat place to end up I like I see you know I spent 23 years in there Iona
1:30:22
and ended up in Montana and now the wife and I are probably going to go just like
1:30:28
the Sand Hill cranes do and go winter in Arizona and come back nice nice is there anything better than that hey Sam here
1:30:34
give me is going to be one or the other answer it's going to be either legal or illegal I'm going to tell Sam about our
1:30:40
our Montana okay so we're driving along the guys got the horse trailer they got this pickup truck they got dogs on the
1:30:46
outside of this truck and it's just typical Montana is awesome these guys are great Ranch guys we're working on a
1:30:52
ranch a working Ranch so we're driving down this old dirt road and uh all of a sudden the brakes pound on the brakes
1:30:58
and all of a sudden within seconds crack you hear this rifle go off out the
1:31:04
window the guy just stopped pulled on on his on his land and he shot a badger
1:31:09
because because of all the cows or whatever like that is that like illegal or is that they can they do that down in the
1:31:15
US well uh shooting from a vehicle is not legal okay right okay we knew that
1:31:23
but but I mean you find me a a ranchers truck out in Montana that doesn't have a
1:31:29
weapon exct I'll be surprised yeah and I'll tell you what Sam that he walked at
1:31:36
least 100 yards out there no scope I on the gun he just popped that thing one shot right in the head was the most
1:31:42
incredible thing I've ever seen we still didn't know what was going on because CU until he walked out there and picked
1:31:49
this thing up and walked back we had no idea what said a word never said a word then walk back say Badgers they they're
1:31:54
not good for cattle boys threw at the back of the truck and the dogs ripped at it and it was just it was Unreal it was it was pretty awesome actually see that
1:32:01
just reminded me what a great experience that was oh God all those stories have like that God we were on Horseback
1:32:08
far far longer than we had anticipated and I'll tell you what I had got a whole
1:32:13
new respect for them Cowboys who uh who go up in the mountains and try and bring cattle in in the spring holy mackerel
1:32:21
just on that horse for two or three days it's murder man murder I got another
1:32:27
question for you Sam we'll go back to Just Fish and wild life in general so in Canada here if we see somebody creating
1:32:34
an infraction we're to call either tips M&R or Crim Stoppers two numbers one's
1:32:40
one's the M&R and one's the police most of I mean I don't know what's like in the US in Canada in
1:32:47
Ontario where we are you're probably not going to see a conservation officer there's so far a few and far between
1:32:52
it's ridiculous I know what your answer is going to be to this but what if you know they say okay sorry sir we take care of
1:32:59
it and you see this still going on and nobody's showing up and showing up should we approach these idiots and say dude you're you're snagging fish dude
1:33:06
you're being doing something illegal uh why are you doing this or whatever I've called the cops on you should we approach them I've never done it but
1:33:12
I've called the cops a couple times but I've never done that what's your opinion on that well you got to kind of follow
1:33:18
your own gut my my immediate response is no no don't you don't you cross that
1:33:23
line you never know how nutty they are you know I mean even though you'd love to go down there and put hurt bumps all
1:33:29
over their head you just you just don't and hopefully that persistence and and
1:33:36
repetitive calls to the officer will ultimately get get he or she out there
1:33:42
and uh yeah I I just would would uh suggest don't don't take that step and
1:33:47
get yourself involved you're not getting paid for that yeah I figured that was your answer I just uh just it gets you
1:33:52
so irate when you see something going on like that you know what I mean and you know nothing's going to be done about it and it just it kills you that's the one
1:33:59
time we it's the one time we all want to be cos yeah okay but you know I guess a
1:34:05
really important point there though is I run into it all the time where and I
1:34:10
throughout my career where where people would know something that went wrong or know that you know this guy's uh you
1:34:18
know doing something wrong and not telling anybody about it and just flat out putting up with it and I think
1:34:24
that's one message that that I've tried to make um you know with with either these podcasts or any other exchange
1:34:32
with the media is enough is enough and and just let's if we don't take our
1:34:38
own responsibility to safeguard the resource then shame on us here here and
1:34:44
you know that that whatever that Uncle that you know shot your wife's deer tell
1:34:50
them I don't agree with that that's just flat out wrong right and you know it it
1:34:55
it requires that and I I look at it and say if if I was going to tell you this I
1:35:01
I did do a little research on on one case that happened in
1:35:08
2022 in Wyoming that was a very significant Fallout on an out ofate kind
1:35:15
of a poaching uh Team uh largely getting licenses fraudulently and shooting big
1:35:22
game and and and three individuals that that spent time Behind Bars they were
1:35:27
fined you know in excess of $100,000 they lost their licenses for a
1:35:33
long time but the information came in and began uh with one of the first
1:35:39
violations in 2006 and they made the case in
1:35:45
20122 WoW think of all the people that knew these bad guys were up to what they
1:35:52
were wow and that probably never said anything yeah and yeah yeah and I just
1:35:57
challenge you know every every listener on your show that you know if if you
1:36:03
know of something like that one it might be the piece of the puzzle the officers looking for and two it sends a message
1:36:10
that no we're not going to tolerate this anymore our resource belongs to all of us not the dirt bag wow very well put my
1:36:19
friend I got one more question for Sam this one we had we brought up a story earlier on on this on the podcast here
1:36:25
and it was about the I'm sure you heard about the walleye Fiasco in the tournament where the guy was stuffing
1:36:30
weights down the wall all that well he got he got recharged with a bunch of other offenses including five white tail
1:36:38
bucks in the story I've never I've never heard any details on this but they said two or three of those bucks these are
1:36:45
mounted heads two or three of those bucks were taken illegally at night how the hell do they know that how do the
1:36:52
CEOs know that how is there is it just through hear State through people through evidence are you know people
1:36:58
seeing it they interview the guy I don't know it's very vague the the we is very vague
1:37:05
so often if if they're you know stating something like that either the the the
1:37:11
perpetrator himself okay was encouraged to hey we got you tell us the whole
1:37:17
story right what happened okay that makes sense be easier yeah okay uh Sam you have been Way
1:37:25
Beyond the word generous with your time today if I was in your position I had told us to hit the road uh 10 minutes
1:37:33
into this I got to go ban some ducks somewhere exactly um I just want to remind the
1:37:39
folks the uh the name of the book is the uh Arizona game Ranger remembering the
1:37:45
Outlaws and it's a fascinating read if you're into the outdoors if you're into
1:37:50
wildlife if you're into conservation uh this is a must book I'm saying it's not
1:37:56
just a must book it should become a handbook uh because it gives you some great insights into what's going on
1:38:03
there we take it for granted you know you go out fishing you go out hunting everything is wonderful the birds are tweeting everything's green as one well
1:38:09
how the hell do you think that happens with people like Sam that's how and uh we appreciate it so much and uh want to
1:38:17
thank you how can uh people reach out to you is there a we sitee is there someplace they can get more information
1:38:23
on you yeah well it's funny my my daughter who's kind of my media manager
1:38:29
told me to sign up an Instagram account right and and I said I had I bought my
1:38:34
wife an insta pot [Music] I anyways I understand
1:38:41
it's sam. Lowry L awy perfect and then it's got a link in
1:38:48
there because there's also I I did an audio book on the same book and and so you can get it that way
1:38:56
and I've I've had other people just say they Googled Sam Lowry and that book
1:39:01
comes up yeah yeah well my friend uh hats off to you uh I'm just uh sorry
1:39:07
that you retired it would be nice to know that you're still out there protecting uh game and
1:39:13
Wildlife oh I I will I I can never lay down that uh let's say visual
1:39:20
opportunity I catch a bad guy he's got the wrong guy watching him and if you guys are ever in Montana
1:39:28
you have my contact information let's hook up and go shoot a blue grouse or something beautiful on
1:39:36
Horseback we can do that we can do that all right my friend you have a great day thank you very much for joining us
1:39:43
thanks Andrew Pete and thanks de a bunch byebye all right by uh Sam Lowry what a
1:39:49
bit as fascinating as knew he was I knew he was going at be just reading the stories the look of Sam he just got that
1:39:56
storytelling aura about him the texture in the stories the the way he told the
1:40:02
stories the way they've been put on paper it it like you're there yeah
1:40:07
you're actually experiencing it so uh I urge I'm I'm not kidding you uh grab the
1:40:13
book if you get a chance now that I know the audio oh hell yeah guys like me that don't read too well you know I I wish I
1:40:20
could have asked you don't read too well you you read pictures uh I wish I could have asked them and and maybe we'll find
1:40:26
out but through Dean um it wouldn't it be great if uh if he was narrating it
1:40:32
with that that great voice that he's got got to be that's what they do with audio books right that would be the best a
1:40:38
rule well a lot of times they they bring they H up somebody but Sam's got the voice that he has to he has to do that
1:40:44
God that would be fascinating yeah yeah for sure great read and great show man uh we went way uh over time
1:40:51
uh but what a great I guarantee you people have stayed right with Sam's interview right to the end guarantee it
1:40:57
it's it's so awesome that I want to remind everybody that the story that Pete was alluding to we talked about it
1:41:02
earlier on in the program is on fishing canada.com is are all of the we we love putting up poaching stories by the way
1:41:09
yeah uh we are not uh ashamed of putting up their names uh addresses if we could
1:41:17
get them because I think the more we expose these the people that knowingly
1:41:23
break the rules and game of wildlife the quicker we can shorten that list uh
1:41:29
that's obviously out there now so um go check it out it's all at fishing canada.com while you're there go to the
1:41:36
store shop. fishing canada.com will get you there and uh while you're there go
1:41:42
into a contest hey why not win something too come on now and maybe even check out the our Outdoor Journal Radio podcast
1:41:49
Network if you haven't listened to the other shows yet uh there's some good stuff there too we we're almost getting
1:41:55
too many little side shows going on we might be able to start making money here one day thank you I was hoping you'd say
1:42:00
that I'm hell yeah yeah yeah Stevie on behalf of the entire crew uh
1:42:07
vva Nick Dean over there uh now my coost peter browman I'm Angelo Viola thanks
1:42:13
for joining us we'll catch you next
1:42:19
time
1:42:25
[Music]
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w
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