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Are Gobies Reshaping Lake Simcoe?
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May 29, 2025
- The Invasive Species Centre: Protecting Canada’s land and water from invasive species - SAIL: The Ultimate Destination for your Outdoor Adventures - J&B Cycle and Marine: Your Home for all things powersports, boats, and equipment - Freedom Cruise Canada: Rent the boat, own the memories In this episode, we’re joined by Rob Baldwin, Chief Administrative Officer of the Lake Simcoe Region Conservation Authority, for a wide-ranging conversation on the future of one of Ontario’s most important freshwater systems. From invasive gobies turning into unexpected bass builders, to the potential return of smelt and the always-fragile status of Lake Simcoe whitefish, Rob breaks down the complex forces shaping the lake today. We also cover critical issues like flooding prevention, farm runoff, deep-water weed growth, quagga mussels, and the growing battle over public access. Plus: how citizen science is becoming a game-changer in local conservation. Whether you fish it, live on it, or just care about Canada’s lakes—this is one episode you don’t want to miss.
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0:05
[Applause] this episode of Outdoor Journal Radio is brought to you in part by the Invasive
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Species Center protecting Canada's land and water from invasive species freedom
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Cruise Canada rent the boat own the memories jmbb Cycle Marine your home for
0:25
all things powersports boats and equipment and sail the ultimate
0:31
destination for your outdoor adventures
0:39
well hello everybody thank you for joining us once again i love that i love that yes how can you not get excited
0:44
when you hear that it doesn't matter what you connected to you know could be setting a hook on a fish could be
0:49
rolling set of dice on a crap table but when it happens when that moment happens it's Yes baby uh welcome to the program
0:57
uh Sans my usual co-pilot he's off today he will be back on the next show uh Dean
1:05
Taylor though will be uh Come on now doing his best job at trying to imitate Mr bowman i'll do my best um Boba Nick
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usual cast a wonderful show today i met the our first guest which will be coming
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on here in a few moments i met him uh few weeks ago at a very uh
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in prop two meeting we'll call it i was at a uh fishing game club Franklin Fish
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Fishing and Outdoors Club and uh he was sitting next to me at lunch and so we
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just hit it off and a fascinating gentleman you'll love him to death his name is uh Rob Baldwin he is the chief
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administrative officer for the Lake Simco Conservation Authority come on now and uh fascinating guy but more
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importantly he's an avid avid avid one of us avid angler so uh great
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perspective on uh on fishing uh wonderful program beyond that because we have some great news stories uh before
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we get to any of those uh let's talk about fishingcanada.com shall we because there's something going on there and
2:11
apparently this is what's going on yeah our store manager came up with a new program okay what's the program the
2:17
bonus code that you normally hear that gets you the 10 entries for the contest will now apply to the store to get you a
2:24
discount so if you type as well as well so you're going to get 10 free entries to the contest whatever that is a motor
2:32
a live scope whatever we have right if you go to the store and you're purchasing a new hoodie or a t-shirt or
2:37
or a hat you use the promo code that you heard in the episode and that week it'll count towards a discount an undisclosed
2:45
discount a and and just that week though just that week because next week there's another code that will give you an
2:52
undisclosed discount okay and do we do you want me to read that now i think so i think this would be the best time yeah
2:58
it would it would yeah because we'll kind of connected to what's going on so uh we interrupt this program to bring
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you the much anticipated uh special bonus code come on now to the
3:11
Fishing Canada giveaways which now also will give you a discount on the shop
3:16
come on now uh this week's code is Simco s I M C O E and it'll become clearer to
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you later on in the show why we have Simco as the bonus code uh that's all
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capital letters too isn't it that's right yeah has to be all capitals is that that like if they don't put capitals on it just won't go through no
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you'll get an error code okay and and and then you'll email us and tell us it doesn't work and we'll have to explain
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that you do that quite often do you yeah I thought so uh capital letters
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Simco all uppercase S I M C O E is the bonus code
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for the giveaway plus the bonus code if you want to get some merch at a discount
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come on now uh type that into the area that says uh bonus code you'll get 10
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free entries into the contest whichever contest it is and uh off you go simco
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you'll find out you'll find out why later uh and some new goodies up there at the shop too by the way I like this
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uh yeah it's nice nice look i like Yeah you did a good job makes it makes it look urgent you
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know uh listener feedback listener feedback this week is from um Phil
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Hauling Dale that's I'm assuming that's the his whole name phil Haulingale uh
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7593 via YouTube so does this qualify for anything no he commented and he just
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wanted us to read this all right uh in response to episode 171 with Sean
4:53
Tredell that's the guy who is building a homestead right yep y great guy by the way i would love that episode uh he says
5:01
"Interesting episode guys enjoyed your conversation with Sean uh who is living our boyhood dreams is he ever especially
5:10
those of us who uh read the read the coming of age survival the hatchet uh he
5:17
actually followed through on these urges uh at the rest of us shushed and tucked
5:23
away and now we live vicariously uh through his videos every Saturday
5:28
funny how he watched you because he says on on uh that
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podcast that he grew up watching Fish and Canada show but uh funny how he watched you uh in his youth and now
5:40
you're watching him uh circle of life stuff very very true uh great comment uh
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is there anything for that or is there just a No we don't give we just we like people who do that how about just an
5:53
adab boy yeah yeah at a boy button for that yeah uh you got a button for an
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attab boy i don't have Wow no that's not Give him an Come on now no give him
6:04
something nice do it live damn well it's getting closer that's all I have we need an Give me a
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hell yeah there you go that's close to an add boy there you go uh Phil
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Haulingale 7593 via YouTube thank you very much keep them coming uh we
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appreciate it but that is a great episode if you haven't seen it uh go check it out episode 171 of this very uh
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podcast uh and the guest name is Sean
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Trudeell uh Conservation Corner brought to you by the good folks at Invasive
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Species Center they want you to know that your favorite species of sportfish
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could be in peril uh due to the grass carp
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possible invasion one of four species of the Asian carp uh and uh it if it gets
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in we're in big trouble what we need to do listen nobody spends as much water
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time on the water as anglers so think of this if we could employ all the
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anglers north of the 49th parallel that are going to be involved with the Great
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Lakes watershed waters in some way or form this summer if we could employ all of them to be our watchd dogs on any
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subject at all in this case it's uh checking out for grass carp boy we'd have an army out there well you know
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what that's exactly what we've got we have potentially an army of people that can uh equip themselves with information
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regarding the grass carp not only identification but habitat and and the way it acts and all kinds of stuff
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that's available to you on the asiancarp.ca website if you got that
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information and you go out and do your thing this summer and just keep that information uh on your phone and in the
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back of your head if you see one of those critters boom push the button make the call help us all uh stay on top of
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this situation uh Asiancarp.ca is where you need to be and the grass carp identification chart is
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the one that you need to download come on now thar in the news boy this is some
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shocking news where do you get this stuff it's It's like you almost like you make it up you say "What can I put on this desk that's doomy and gloomy on
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this?" I actually had to f to check the date cuz I feel like we've covered stuff like this before i do too yeah I do i
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don't know if it happens well it kind of says in this story that it does happen quite often it's not that uncommon but
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this like it seemed identical to what we've covered in the past by the way this news story is brought to you by the
8:47
good folks at JNBB Cycle and Marine your outdoor superstore when it comes to boat
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packages especially uh man oh man oh man oh they are the largest i prior to them
9:00
jumping on board with us I had no idea uh they are the largest Princecraft
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Mercury dealer in the province of Ontario that's massive man come on now
9:13
give him a something oh my sure there you go
9:19
i bought you a new box of sound effects okay because you said "Boss I I would
9:25
like to be a little more creative and I want a little more space i need I need some more buttons." Oh I went to the
9:31
countest i on your behalf and I made your case and I pleaded with her that we needed to spend the money cuz Dean needs
9:39
some more it's a bunch of that's not a bunch of at
9:44
all and there you go and you don't use the damn thing have a fine day and get
9:49
rid of that bye anyways um JMBB cycle and marine that's
9:56
what we were telling you they are the sponsors of the news segment on this
10:01
very program and uh as such I think you should I think you should go to their website just to check them out now the
10:08
website is JB Cycle.com not JNB jnb is their actual
10:16
name but they dropped the and in their uh URL so it's just
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jbcycle.com check it out i think you'll be pleasantly surprised they got some things on there that that uh will keep
10:28
you uh um on their site for a few I I don't want to give it away they'll keep you on
10:33
their site for a period of time some entertainment for you all right now this story it was first
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observed in late August uh that um there was a killoff
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late late April april I don't know where did I get August from a A Okay no see I
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try and match so a April in this case not August i'm sure something happened in August that year too it seems like
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they're dying all the time ex maybe they were dying in August as well and this is just the first time but anyway first
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observed late April and has continued into May of this year so just the last
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couple of months uh large numbers of dead fish have been discovered along the shores of Lake Hiron particularly near
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the mouth of Asabel River we'll call it Asabul
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River uh in southeastern Ontario the species affected uh the die- off primarily involved species such as
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sucker catfish and freshwater drum this is not the first time Dean no this is
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not the first time that I have uttered those words i I I've just had a deja vu
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moment and it always seems coarse fish like sometimes it's carp common carp y
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sometimes it's sucker but it always seems like coarse fish yeah it does freshwater drum i wonder what that's all
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about h anyways they say that it's a suspected viral um hemorrh hemorrhagic
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hemorrhagic septismia vhs yeah why are you laughing at me that was
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just a good pronunciation i think people like that yeah how would you say it not much better okay viral hemorrhagic
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septtomia maybe yeah well that was not a whole lot different than what I just said you could play that back too on one of your buttons i bought you there
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uh a highly contagious fish virus affecting 50 species
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um causes internal bleeding uh especially in organs and muscle tissue like weird and you know we we're always
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surprised at those but why would we think that fish are immune to viruses we get it all the time
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right we have all kinds of viruses why would we think that fish are immune to them this is clearly a case where where
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uh viruses set in on a particular colony of fish and just total devastation
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obviously right yeah and like they spawn in big packs i think it just spreads through the whole thing so quick yeah
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they're so close i mean we've seen schooling fish how tight they get right so anyways a fascinating story dean did
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you uh author this or I didn't author it it is on the website um our editors put
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it together our big team of editors but um the one thing that I have highlighted
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here is that it can't be transferred to humans so if if or or mammals so if your dog is near the fish or if you decide to
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eat the fish you find on shore for some reason you'll be f you well you'll be fine from this disease you might not be
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fine for anything else eating a dead carcass that's sitting on the beach for sure you won't be fine from that but you
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won't get this disease how do they know this i'm assuming someone had to eat one and figure it out it's got to be I don't
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know whether I'd want to take that chance or not i wouldn't volunteer no anyways uh interesting story it's all
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sitting at fishingcanada.com uh your gateway the portal to your next fishing adventure
14:03
awaits you at fishingcanada.com fan question of the week brought to you by the good folks at
14:11
fishfinder.com fishfinder.com the Come on now if you are installing any kind of
14:17
electronics on your boat right now if you're in the garage listening to this
14:22
because you're outfitting your new boat with I don't know some kind of sonar
14:28
device I guarantee you that if you go to fishfinder.com right now just stop what
14:34
you're doing fish fishermounts.com that's what I said yep yeah you don't have to keep correcting me just because it worked once doesn't mean it's going
14:39
to work every day all right fishfighter
14:45
uhmounts.com uh I guarantee you where was I going with this Dean um you're
14:51
going to be in your garage working on your boat and you're trying and you might Yeah yeah and you might not think
14:57
you're going to have a problem uh finishing completing you the assembly of whatever it is you're mounting but I
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guarantee you if you go to fishfindermounts.com website right now you're going to see something that just
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jumps off their their screen at you and says "Oh my god if I have that think how
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much easier it's going to be for me to do that." And that my friends is why you need to go to fishfindermounts.com
15:22
come on now uh who brings you this segment by the way all right uh the segment is fan
15:31
question of the week and it's Travis Mcnotton via email he is some now does
15:37
he get anything for this unfortunately not unless I mean so are we giving anything away anymore or is that this
15:42
episode we're saving a lot of money but Travis he emailed us this question we
15:48
have a large bank of people who still email in questions oh we do have parameters set by the powers above that
15:54
you have to leave a comment on YouTube in order to qualify for the money okay and people are still emailing in quite
16:01
often so okay these people just need to go just some advice you can make a YouTube account for free and comment on
16:07
our videos and then you'll you might get some money okay okay yep all right uh
16:14
Travis says "Hey Angie Pete love the show uh was the Oh here I with with the
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bass spawn starting up down here in southern Ontario i had a question for you guys do you think that M&R should be
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setting up more fish sanctuaries on our lakes to stop people from accidentally
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you know I'm sure it's how he means it targeting bass on beds curious to hear your take well you're not going to hear
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Mr bowman's take on this which I happen to know what it is but you will hear
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mine and uh my uh it it would get a little bit greasy
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though right a little bit difficult but I I do agree i do agree see here's the
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problem with spawn especially spawning bass is that you can't just say "Oh
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okay." Like they do now you can't just say "Okay uh the spawn will take place
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from you know March 1st to May 26."
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Well you can't do that because it's there's so many variables that that will change that date one way or the other
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most of them totally out of our control no all of them totally out of our control that it's difficult for the M&R
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or any other governing body to they try they try and keep fish safe during the
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spawn because it's the right thing to do but as long as they keep putting dates
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on a calendar as the opening and closing of of certain seasons based on spawn
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it's always going to be subject to error because it'll change things will change
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so to answer your question on this can they pick as opposed to a date
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can they just say that this area is off limits for fishing period
18:05
until August hey see there's where the August came in Dean yeah there it was i knew I was going to use that word right
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all right and then the problem with that is that
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we'd have all these fish sanctuaries and these offlimits places in the waterways and
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people are going to say "Well I didn't know that." And the people to enforce them and how you gonna enforce it so you
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know I don't there is no right or wrong you know what the only right way is that every single one of
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us every single one of us should be our own enforcement agency for ourselves
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think about it think about if we enforced the rules and regulations on
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ourselves we wouldn't need anybody to enforce them on anybody else because we'd all be doing it ourselves i think
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it's uh a personal issue fishing for spawning or bedding
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fish accidentally fishing for bedding fish i think it's a personal choice i
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think it's a bad choice if we think that we can get away with it even if it's not
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against the law but regardless we should be policing ourselves i don't think you can put
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anything in place to stop people from doing it is my opinion uh I just don't
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now you know you you you may argue that in some parts of the world south of us
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for example Florida maybe uh it's perfectly fine they fish them on the
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beds every day of the week in most cases no in all cases it's because they have
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the optimum climate for largemouth bass they don't have the dreaded winter period
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that we do and bass in Florida will spawn four five six times throughout the
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course of the year depending on which one suits them best we don't have that our bass don't have that option here
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it's a very tight little window it's short and it's subject to change without
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further notice so it's tough for them i've always believed that that's that
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one time a year where we need to leave the fish along and I'm using bass as an example we could probably bring trout
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into this we could bring just about any other species it's the one time a year where maybe we give them a break we cut
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them a break we do it ourselves without any any enforcement from M&R so there's
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what I think uh Mr bowman we'll have to uh ask him when he gets back see what he I know his opinion already he agrees
20:45
with me on that one by the way uh there you go travis Mcnotton via email hopefully we answered your question uh
20:53
well all righty now to the main guest of the show uh this segment brought to you by Sale the home of all good things
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outdoors especially fishing and hunting and camping and all that good stuff not only rods and reels and tackle but
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their uh website as well up to 60% off on some items so you definitely want to go to see sale as I mentioned to you a
21:33
few weeks ago I had an opportunity to uh do something that I don't normally do uh I went to uh an event at the Franklin uh
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fishing and outdoors club and uh boy that was an eye openener in itself uh
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but uh making it even a more special day I had an opportunity to sit at lunch
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that day uh with our next guest his name is Rob Baldwin he's the chief administrative officer for the Lake
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Simco uh conservative author conservation authority which I'm going
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to bet that there are probably 99 out of a hundred out there
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that are saying what what's that cuz I was one of them um it's been around for 30 years it's a conservation authority
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that's made up mostly of avid anglers but scientists etc and their sole job is to keep that Lake Simco watershed uh
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pure and clean for all of us to enjoy for years to come so I thought what a great guy to talk to he had some
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fascinating things i hope I can get him to open up a little bit on the show his name is Rob Baldwin welcome to the show Rob thanks and it's pleasure to be here
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oh man that was a that was a great event we uh we were both uh obviously involved
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with now that was a Lake Simco Conservation Authority event wasn't it that we were at yeah that was a
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fundraising event for our we have a foundation that supports our enterp our our organization so that's one of the
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events we do where we uh have the uh couple fishing days a year is basically to offer something other than a golf
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tournament you know the golf tournament is pretty much the norm out there for raising you money so having a fishing event for those that that like to fish
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like I do and yourself and others it's a it's a just a different way to reach out to the community and uh they get to come
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out have a great day fishing and uh and talk shop as well as have some fun well it was my first uh venture to the
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Franklin Fishing Club uh I I had them on our radio program for years on a regular
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basis but I never made the effort to go out and see them and it was my first venture out there and you mentioned golf
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when I got back here to the studio when I came back from that uh event that's all I could talk about was wow this is
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to fishing what golfing is to golfers because that's what I felt like i felt
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like we were on a well manicured a well-maintained uh pristine beautiful environment but it
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felt like a golf course you know uh and and I thought it was fantastic what a
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great concept yeah it's it's a gem it's a great place at Derry Hudo about 10 minutes from New
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Market in the 404 what 25 minutes maybe from Ashawa Whitby uh right up uh
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Highway 48 and it's just tucked in tucked in there outside of Mount Albert
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it's a basically Yeah it's like a basically like you said a fishing club equivalent of Golf Club it's a clubhouse
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great food fishing's phenomenal great place it's fantastic anyways enough about them um by the way that fishing
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there is spectacular too we haven't talked about shabby uh now is that in your
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jurisdiction shall we say is it part of makes up part of your area that you look
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after yeah it's it's in our jurisdiction it's a reservoir on one of the
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tributaries that flows in the Lake Simco okay so let's establish that right off the bat tell me about uh the area that
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we when we say the Lake Simco Conservation Area what area are we talking about okay so the Lake Simco
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Conservation Authority is one of there's 36 conservation authorities in Ontario we're one of them most of them are in
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southern Ontario like basically uh conservation authorities represent basically all of southern Ontario and there's a few in the north North Bay
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Sunbury uh Thunder Bay uh and we're are these NOS's are these No no we're we're
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uh we're created by provincial legislation uh under the Conservation Authorities Act uh uh and uh we're
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actually we're moving into our 75th year next year we CA conservation authorities
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were actually created originally uh to deal with the droughts in the Ganarasa
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forest area like all when all the the trees were gone and that was the original response and then Hurricane
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Hazel came along and gave us really what is our our core focus now is around hazard management making sure keeping
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people out of the flood plane protecting people in their homes and infrastructure so that's where we've grown and so our
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area in Lake Simco is anything that drains into the Lake Simco uh into the lake uh the wersheds from the Oakridges
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Marine in the south berry uh is is our purview so we uh have sort of I guess
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four main areas of focus hazard management so protecting people around the flooding side of the world outdoor
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education uh we have an outdoor ed center in the Bradford where we do curriculum based outdoor education get
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kids out of the classroom into the forest uh great program uh we have a
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science and monitoring program we're very invested with the lake that's of course at the heart of us uh as well as
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uh we have other groups that do environmental restoration wetland creation river restoration so those are
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the sort of the I guess the four buckets as well as owning large parcels of land that are all free for public access so
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it's a we've got quite a quite a program for an area of what 2500 square km now
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you made it very clear to me over lunch because of course my interest goes right to fish right soon as I talk to anybody
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that's in that uh uh business I get right to the point and you made it very clear that uh you spend most of your
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time or all of your time is dedicated to everything except game fish right so
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explain that yeah so fish management is totally the purview of Ministry of
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Natural Resources so we're not involved in any of the fisheries management we just help support them with the science
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uh doing aquatic mapping uh macrofit plant mapping invasive species work uh
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fishery uh data collection the tributaries all that work so we do we provide a lot of the information used by
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the managers uh but we are not involved in that side of the business and that's we leave that totally to them that's
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their they are the longtime experts but we have a role to play to help uh ensure
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that they have the best information we can provide through our staff yeah so I'll just throw this out as an example
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um and let's take Lake Simco because I know you and I talked about this uh when when the Goli started invading Lake
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Simco um you guys were on it to sort of monitor it and see where it was going to
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go and what what results were going to look like and I found it fascinating
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because you made a comment i don't know whether you're free to discuss this on an open mic but I found it fascinating
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that you said to me that it's now become a very significant part of the forage
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base of Lake Simco and in fact you know we've been saying for years how the Lake
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Simco small mouth bass have just been growing almost
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I won't say exponentially because that would be false but unnaturally and a having that discussion
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with you over lunch kind of uh turned a lot of little lights on in my head i mean obviously the Golie has everything
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to do with what's going on there as it does in the St lawrence River by the way and we'll use smallmouth bass in both
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those cases definitely uh goies have attributed to the amazing growth and
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health for that matter of the smallmouth bass in most areas that that goes are prevalent in now and you pointed that
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out to me right yeah absolutely i mean uh I mean Lake Simco's got a long
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history of invasive species because it's been you know been in and around the GTA you know and and so going back from carp
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to Eurasian mil foil and now uh zebra muscles qua muscles but now goi is one
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of the big ones and uh the goi population all the great lakes lake simco is no different lake Simco is like
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just a mini version of a great lake like a it's it's a big lake right in the heart of the Great Lakes and it acts
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like one uh just on a smaller scale so when the goies came in the habitat's great like there's a lot of rocky sand
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bottom across the entire lake they reproduce like crazy they uh they produce just unbelievable uh amount of
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uh offspring so they have a huge population expands very quickly and really the way I I think we were
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chatting about is I like make it a it's like an all you can eat buffet down there you know these gobies are very
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prevalent they're across the bottom uh they're they're easy prey for especially for a small mouth who's you know very
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predatory and you know very strong uh at finding that it's food source and
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they're so they're everywhere and also the one thing too is for the size of a goi you know like they're not big like 2 in 3 in goi they're also very high in
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protein uh compared to say other forage fish so when they're eating it they're getting like a a meal with a protein
30:32
shake on the side so to speak just I keep it simple these so when they're out there they they can forward on these things like crazy and uh yeah the
30:39
weights like the weights in and the Simco bass were strong before the Kobe oh I know this is this has just brought
30:44
it brought it to the next level like we've seen like these these footballs that are out there it's funny you said that to me and I kind of in my own head
30:52
I I said I got to bring that up if we ever get a chance to talk about it more you said that they were higher in protein than most if not all of the
30:59
forage that's in Lake Simco now um and I'm kind of curious as to how how
31:07
can we make that claim becau and the reason I say that simple mind here if if they both live in the same environment
31:14
they're both living off the same food source i mean goi and and whoever we want to compare it to what what's the
31:20
other main forge in in Simco uh right now probably emerald shiners and and perch i mean there's perch prevalent
31:26
everywhere so so if if they all live in the same environment same food base same
31:32
water quality how can one be higher in protein than another it's they're all
31:37
high in protein i think the one thing with a go is just it's the available effort to get it and the protein that's
31:42
available fish i there's been some literature done around like what's the exact you know protein to weight right
31:48
and on a goi versus other fish and it's higher i think one of the big ones is also they don't have to chase them so
31:54
they're also expending less energy so it's a combination of high protein forage fish that uh is available to them
32:00
less forage uh effort so you're kind of combining the two those two things come
32:05
together and it's also the third thing is just prevalence they're like they're everywhere like you know they're very common and especially in the areas that
32:12
the small lake rocky sandy areas you know that's where the goi like to be so
32:17
uh so it's really that kind of perfect scenario and you see it anywhere in the Great Lakes there's rock right gravel
32:23
Lake Erie St lawrence they're you know where the gobies are the smallies are big is there anything negative about and
32:29
and I don't want to make this show about the goi but I'm fascinated by them is there anything negative about them
32:36
i think the area that is still the fear is twofold around uh their ability
32:43
because they are like a bottom forager is their ability to sort predate uh eggs during spawning either perch spawning or
32:49
like lake trout or white fish spawning is that they love to eat uh eggs and predate so when the goi got in Lake
32:55
Simco I think there was an original fear that we the perch are going to take a a beating right there this is going to
33:01
really knock down those uh young perch or ability to recruit into the into the population and it hasn't really seemed
33:07
to appear that perch fishing has seemed to be really strong in the last couple years and and I think that's a mix of a
33:12
bunch of things but I think that fear has been somewhat negated and uh I think
33:18
that's the only area I think people are still watching to see is there a longer term potential impact that they impact
33:24
on that ability that for egg survival to just let they just predate on the spawning nests
33:30
But other than that they haven't really created much of an impact on other
33:35
elements of the food the food chain i haven't seen it yet that's so I think right
33:41
now you know I always like cuz it makes me you're in the early days you got 30 40 years down the line and say "Hey did
33:47
that really make an impact in the big picture?" And we're not there yet but I think right now it hasn't made as much of an impact as we thought and it's it's
33:54
you know small bass love them the white fish in Lake Simco have completely adapted to them like they are now
33:59
predating uh brutally heavily on on goi uh I mean you think back I'm a big
34:06
fisherman too and so like you know 20 years ago on sumo was a you know the old Williams white fish or jig and wrap you
34:11
know the classics now if you're not using like one of those goi style lead head jig with the crappy trailer you're
34:17
not catching them they're not going to hit those uh middle baits anymore no goi they don't even see they're oblivious to
34:23
them right they they focus in on anything that has the profile and color and and probably movement of a goi and
34:31
if you're not playing that game you're not you're not catching small mouth yeah absolutely i spoke Rob about uh about a
34:38
year maybe two years ago i had an opportunity to um funny over lunch again
34:43
uh to speak to a scientist American scientist south of the border who uh has
34:49
been working on um the St lawrence waterway for most of his life and the
34:55
whole Gobi discussion came up and he believes now he says he doesn't have any practical
35:02
uh there's no paperwork in other words he put out a disclaimer there's no
35:07
paperwork involved in this but he believes that the smallmouth bass on the
35:13
St lawrence River have adapted to the change brought on by the goi the change
35:20
is that the food abundance uh less energy spent to to get fueled up etc and
35:26
they've actually started developing more eggs than they had before so he's his
35:34
theory is because uh genetically the fish now knows that the dining table
35:40
used to be this big well now it's this big they're developing more eggs because
35:46
the food base is there that's his and he's working on it i I haven't talked to him in a couple years i should call him
35:52
and see how he's making out on that i mean that mean that makes sense when you have a a good environment and you're healthy you're going to be able to do
35:58
more when you're in a stressed environment your body will deficate our humans right we always respond in a in a
36:04
in an adverse way so that principle makes sense think about that principle makes sense if money was not the object
36:10
and home was not the problem most marriages would end up with 10 kids 12
36:16
kids right that kind of thing but because but because we've got all of the
36:22
the logistics don't kind of work that way we keep them small well this is a great example how nature might be
36:28
dealing with that right there in the St lawrence you know and let go maybe who knows
36:33
yeah they they certainly have changed the game for sure uh and negatively it's
36:40
really hard to find uh a negative i mean whenever you have invasives you're always worried the long term what's the
36:46
negative right i mean it's just short term uh is you see the impact right away
36:51
uh good or bad so long term you always have to say okay like let's look at this 50 60 years out and say did was there a
36:57
real impact and uh uh and I think that's when you'll really know and I don't I don't foresee one with GOI uh um just
37:05
just based on what they're how they are reacting to the system um so I think I think they'll and they're not going away
37:11
they're here for the long run they're they're here to stay just so uh I think that's the one I guess positive you can
37:17
take out of the smallmouth fishing and will be fantastic uh in the Great Lakes area with uh with this adverse you know
37:25
fish coming in but hey you got to deal with what you've got so a couple of things come to mind as an angller now
37:30
now you tell me this um are there a variety of types of gobies or are we
37:36
dealing with just one genetic just the principal one yeah there might be there might be some others over in Eastern
37:43
Europe that we don't have and hopefully we don't get any more we'll stick with the one but no it's just one but here so
37:48
all we as anglers need to do is focus in on that one creature and we need to
37:54
figure out how we can imitate that fish when we're out smallmouth bass fishing now I'm talking in terms of color size
38:02
movement all that stuff oh yeah i mean there's I mean and you've seen the the proliferation of all these goby style
38:08
baits like really advanced uh plastics and and styles i mean the old tube jig
38:13
was still you know it was as great a goby bait as you could ever have but you got some more fancy versions but nothing
38:19
beats a smoky green gray tube is still going to do the job just as well a and
38:24
the action probably would be as important as as the profile the color uh
38:31
because these fish these gobies have a very distinct distinctive way of moving
38:36
right they they don't just hover around uh they don't just move uh you know uh
38:42
horizontally like regular fish they kind of hop yeah they're they're tight to the bottom right against the substrate and
38:48
they have uh really for the size of the fish they have the big pectoral fins out to the side and they just kind of dart
38:54
like just little you know 2 in 3 in just moving around and so like just dragging
38:59
through the gravel or rock and a little pop just that's b it's pretty easy to do right it's a brief connection but uh
39:06
talk about the perfect perfect uh way to fish right for jig fishing i mean it's
39:11
ideal just drift and just just do little hops right that it's fantastic calm calm
39:18
day you can cast it drag and if it's windy just drag you know just you don't have to do a lot of work no it's
39:23
fantastic um all right we got I'm sorry and I and I I apologize for steering you
39:29
down that road there's so much more that we need to we need to talk about um so give us a sense of uh of over the course
39:37
of of a year what are the objectives of the conservation authority
39:44
there's a rise I mean one of our our largest teams is we're heavily involved in in development and infrastructure but
39:51
we we act in essence as a bit of an environmental arm for our municipal partners on helping approve and make
39:57
sure that some of the development whether it's housing uh uh pipes infrastructure roads whatever it might
40:03
be is done in an environmental way so you focus on storm water management trying to make sure the water getting to
40:08
the lake is as clean as possible as as well as reduce the flood risks uh how do we protect some of the the forest and
40:14
the the streams and all that involvement get groundwater back in the ground so we have a huge group that uh works on that
40:21
with all our partners across the industry and we have a good partnership with the development industry to make that happen and as well as our
40:27
municipalities our science group works year round our science and monitoring water quality monitoring never stops on
40:32
Lake Simco it's uh uh it's a unique lake that has provincial interest so we we do
40:38
a lot of the tributary and open water monitoring uh for the province as well as for our partners uh collecting a
40:45
focus on nutrients cuz Lake Simco has always had a bit of a phosphorus problem so we we spend most of our time working on the phosphorous side of the the
40:51
business um our outs busy year round with school groups and in the summer
40:56
with uh camp groups and summer camps uh our restoration programs working year
41:01
round we do wetland creation wetland enhancement river restoration we work with our with our farmers on best
41:07
practices on how to make their farms healthier and keep their crops and their livestock healthy uh so it's it's a wide
41:14
ranging group we haveund about 115 employees permanent employees uh and for
41:20
across all those sectors so for the size of our organization uh we do we have a
41:25
busy portfolio and uh our job really at the end of the day is to keep Lake Simco healthy and strong and uh protect it for
41:33
whether you're an angller bird a walker or you just want to get out on the lake
41:39
and kayak that's our job is to make sure that this gem and I mean on the doorstep of the GTA is uh maintained yeah and
41:46
you're not far from it and that's that's the biggest that's got to be the most difficult part of your job is that
41:52
you're sitting right on the edge of one of the largest urban population bases in
41:58
North America and it's got to be hard for you to especially with such a a
42:04
wonderful um watershed that that whole Lake Simco area just one incredible uh
42:11
piece of nature after another and it's got to be difficult to protect it it's got to be difficult to
42:18
um and I'm sure you're involved with municipalities in that whole area when they're uh proposing new development uh
42:25
in the areas i'm would imagine you guys are on that uh in that meeting and I
42:33
guess depending on which side of that challenge you sit on you could be
42:38
looked upon as the purveyor of bad news or you could be looked upon as our
42:46
savior and protector so you're you're kind of in the middle aren't you we sit in that nexus that no
42:53
one likes basically if everyone's sort of unhappy or happy with us we're doing it right it's tough when you There are
42:59
there's groups that feel like we're never doing enough there are groups that were we're way too stringent and too tough and we're holding back growth or
43:06
development and or not doing enough to protect that little forest or whatever it might be it is it's a tough place to
43:12
be and we do it with a a whole focus on how do we basically build the best
43:18
communities around the environment and and help that create health like it's
43:24
like basically we build a good community like New Market or Barry or Oxbridge and
43:30
make those communities vibrant uh access to green space uh clean water uh access
43:35
to the lake and uh they can go fishing or boating it's tough i mean some of the decisions are challenging but we we go
43:43
at it very much from a partnership uh we have an approach here uh my staff get
43:48
tired of hearing it i use a phrase all the time you can fight for minimums or partner for maximums it's pretty simple
43:54
thing right right and if you work together you can achieve a lot and I find when you fight you're just settling
44:00
on the lowest common denominator and that doesn't work for anybody you know no one's really coming out of that as a
44:05
winner um so we really try hard and in Ontario I think we hear about it all the
44:11
time we have a housing shortage it's a an important issue in the GTA uh especially here in Simco uh right on the
44:17
doorstep we have to be part of working on that solution to help uh Ontarians have houses uh and meet that demand but
44:24
at the same time protect the environment and protect you know Lake Simco so uh yeah like we sit right in the nexus of
44:31
all those people and it's it's tough i actually had a question for that if I can um I've always found because I fish
44:38
Lake Simco my whole life too but I found over the last like five years or so kind of since co it's become like somewhat
44:46
hostile to access for like outsiders who aren't like who don't live there is that
44:51
an intentional thing and and I'm more talking about like boat launches and parking and you know it's some of the
44:56
highest prices I I've ever seen for launching and parking ridiculous like uh is it is that an intentional thing like
45:03
an environmental concern just because it is so close to Toronto or is there other factors that are kind of keeping people
45:09
out no it's not an it's not environmental really it's it's it's it's a social uh challenge um co definitely
45:16
changed the game uh for everywhere within say what an hour and a half 2 hours of the GTA on getting access to
45:22
green space getting access to the lakes uh and and co also you created a bit of
45:28
that that fear the local communities don't want people from outside their communities and that that changed and I
45:33
mean the one thing you have to look at like Simco's got let's say 122 km of shoreline and 96% of that is privately
45:41
owned because it's it was built and developed in the late 1800s so this it
45:46
didn't have these large swats of public land put aside like in other areas is I mean there's some provincial parks
45:51
there's municipal parks uh and boat launches and but they're limited and that uh has created this this challenge
46:00
of increasing demand with when you're only an hour and a half to say from to
46:05
get to the lake or half an hour from like you know Ashawa Whippy or whatever demand's high and so and even even some
46:14
of those boat launches where the prices are high there's just limited access even to park them like they they so you only have so many spots lots and it's a
46:21
continual challenge and it's one that municipalities are facing it is a bit of that unfortunate at times you've got a
46:28
local we want to protect it from our local perspective versus people coming from afar but how do you manage that and
46:34
it's not easy and unfortunately it's there has been some some instances where there's been some conflict which is
46:40
unfortunate because it's a beautiful resource that we all should share it's just how do we do it do it well one way
46:45
or the other you're going to be the bad guy on every issue whether that one that one at least I don't get to deal because
46:51
that's mostly a municipal issue I'll be honest so like I um we don't have any direct lakefront uh uh the the
46:58
conservation story the lands we own are more inland uh so I don't have a a boat launch to worry about myself so but uh
47:05
we see it on our own lands the conflicts and the use of our own uh lands and Bradford others uh high demand high use
47:13
uh and challenges with with with their social issues um and it's it's it's tough at times it's uh Would you would
47:20
you portray your job and your job being the conservation authorities job to be
47:26
proactive or reactive what would you think where do you fit in there well we try to be as proactive as possible that
47:33
is I we try to look at everything through how do we how do we help on the
47:38
front end of anything like it's a lot easier we do have to react we part of our job is we we issue permits for work
47:45
around water sometimes people don't like to get permits so we do have an enforcement element that we have to do
47:50
and that's to to make sure that we we hold the playing field level uh and also make sure that someone say someone's
47:57
doing work on the shoreline sim code their their work is not impacting their neighbor on either side because you
48:02
start messing with the shoreline doesn't take much to that shoreline erosion as an example to spread beyond your own
48:08
property so we need to make sure that's done but on the development side on science everything we're always trying
48:14
to be proactive and stay on top uh cuz the more you can know on the front end
48:20
the better and also it's always better to to protect and restore is the so more
48:26
we can do on that front that is our uh our approach uh but we have to react sometimes and then and then when new
48:32
invasive species come in you have to react like you you you you have proactive programs across Ontario but
48:38
they can still get in the lake but how do you react once they get there how do you monitor how do you understand them and that's where we really that's that
48:44
kind of reaction we're involved in yeah and and the other problem I see that you have is that it sits and I say it
48:52
meaning Lake Simco and and the watershed sits on you know prime agriculture land
48:58
too agricultural land i mean the Holland River is one I'd like to talk about because growing up um growing up as a
49:06
bass angler the Holland River 40 years ago 50 years ago was was
49:13
a target for largemouth bass fishermen oh yeah and then it just got worse and worse and worse and it just I don't even
49:21
know are there are there largemouth bass in in that river now oh yeah yeah they're there i think they've I think
49:26
they've come back a bit maybe are they back to the day uh the day they were uh you know back uh
49:33
I remember when a couple classics were one out of the river back in the back in the days uh would surprise a lot of
49:39
people um and they're back they're back i I think they're they're not back probably to that level well in the the
49:45
Holland River it's you've got on one side of it you've got New Market Aurora so you got some big urban centers that
49:51
drain into the East Holland on the West Holland you have the Holland Marsh and some you know high intensity agriculture
49:56
so you know it's taken a bit of a rough a rough time uh but that has really changed uh the work we've done in the
50:03
urban areas around storm water management has improved water quality dramatically the farmers in the Holland
50:09
Marsh and working with the drainage commission for the Holland Marsh have really changed their practices and there's a new uh plant that's been
50:16
proposed by the province uh to help treat the runoff the cultural pump up water to reduce nutrients so that will
50:23
change the Holland River even more uh and it uh you know you'll see it come
50:29
begin to increase its bounce back over the next say 10 to 15 years but and that's the challenge the other thing
50:35
just like just like housing like the Holland Marsh it's the vegetable basket in Ontario like that's where I know very
50:40
much the bulk of your carrots onions celery come from and it's it's in a critical agricultural area for people in
50:46
this in this in this province so you've got to balance off their needs as as farmers producing food is so this is
50:54
where all these challenges combine like explain explain maybe to to people who might not see that picture from the
51:01
3,000 ft level how does a farmer have any impact on the water quality in Lake
51:07
Simco well it depends on what you're farming i mean everywhere from if you're in the
51:12
marsh or you're doing dairy is or like cattle and dairy how do you manage your manure trying to keep it away from the
51:18
water courses and running in keeping that nutrients from getting in as well as bacteria in the Holland Marsh and
51:24
other areas is nailing down your your what do you need for fertilizer like like fertilizer is expensive so they
51:30
don't want to put on any more than they need so they do soil testing and and they do uh stuff like uh changing the
51:36
direction of their cropping so instead of having the furrows go downhill and everything erodess and drains quickly
51:42
down to the creek they go across the hill and try and slow down that water so it's just they do uh and then in the
51:48
Holland Marsh they have to wash all the vegetables in the past they would just wash it into the river now they use a a
51:54
controlled plant where they wash it recycle the water clean the dirt out and uh and it prevents it from getting the
51:59
river so there's you know there's a there's 40 years of agricultural stewardship that we've been involved in
52:05
in this watershed to help all our all our farmers uh and it's about helping them helping their uh keeping their uh
52:12
crops safer and better keeping their livestock but at the same time the benefit is an improved lake and improved
52:18
creeks and it's it's a winning scenario for both and uh we've had great great relationships with all the farmers in
52:24
our wershed you told me um that Lake Simco water
52:29
clarity is is and it's always been for well I would say last certainly last
52:36
decade and a bit it's been the cleanest body of water I've ever fished but you're saying it's getting even cleaner
52:42
even clearer it's it's beyond clear i mean um you know so the real focus on
52:49
Lake Simco and sort of the the health of Limco really started in the 70s um like that was when water quality was at its
52:55
probably right around its poorest right coming out of the postw World War II revolution and everything you know like industrial and roads and highways being
53:02
built uh that was the toughest time and there wasn't there wasn't great uh sewage treatment you know technology at
53:08
the time and water quarry was was rough and in the mid '90s the zebra muscle
53:14
appeared for the first time and that began the trend and then about a decade later the quaga muscle came in it's it's
53:20
its cousin and the guagga muscle is a unique little beast uh it can live
53:25
anywhere it doesn't need like zebra muscles like hard substrate like you know rocks uh pipes docks guag muscles
53:32
they grow on anything they'll grow on the plants they'll grow on muck rocks so it doesn't matter and they grow to all
53:37
depths we find zebra muscles in the deepest part of the lake 40 mters plus they are down at the bottom they grow in
53:43
the entire lake they they carpet the entire lake bottom they are incredible filter field feeders i think our
53:51
scientists estimate the population of quaga muscles in the lake is like over a trillion like they're what and they Yeah
53:57
yeah yeah and they I'm probably going to get this wrong but I'll be I'll be I'll
54:03
be in the ballpark but the estimate is that population of quaga muscles can filter the entire volume of Lake Simco
54:09
which is you know it's a it's big lake in like between seven and 10 days whoa
54:16
so it's do you think of being able to filter that level of water nonstop
54:22
uh and take all the excess phytolanton and nutrients and sediments and that's why you could you can see uh down you
54:31
know 20 30 feet in this spring before you get any allegal production any algae
54:37
starts in the spring we're getting like depth readings that are off the chart like that you can see the photos in
54:44
essence where light can penetrate is like close closing in on it's well past
54:49
20 meters that like wow you know like you think of the you go back to the '9s
54:57
and you go to today the weed lines with Peter route 15 ft 16 ft you know in that
55:03
range now in Cooks Bay or others you're fishing some deep uh tail and other
55:08
weeds 35 ft there that that's how deep some of that weed is now um and that has
55:14
changed that changes the well a habitat it changes the whole where the fish can now have more
55:20
habitats where the minnows have more habitat so it's changed the lake and it uh it is made it looks it's beautiful um
55:29
the one concern we have is that all that filtering though you know captured all that nutrient right it sucks it in and
55:34
then they excrete a lot of it out and they lay like have a layer at the bottom and that's what we're studying to see h
55:41
it's called uh shunting they're shunting the nutrients from the water columns to the the sediment and what we're
55:48
concerned about is is that creating a local problem right at that interface of the bottom is that an issue that's
55:54
creating uh a challenge down the road so that's the area our scientists here in our office are studying heavily right
56:00
now is this this change this whole dynamic is is the food web changing is
56:05
the cuz we've seen uh aquatic plants take off and and um what's what's
56:12
driving that change and then uh we have this new invasive species it's a technically it's a macro algae it's
56:18
called starry storm wart it's like a it's a it sort of reminds you a little bit of
56:25
charara you you know like that crispy crunchy uh weed but it grows in like
56:32
giant mats and balls like giant tumble weeds so it doesn't lay on the bottom it grows in the water column um and it
56:39
displaces the natural plants and the fish don't like it like it's not a suitable plant for uh for fish habitat
56:45
and so that's one that concerns us because if you remove the aquatic plants this stuff loves to dominate it comes in
56:52
and it takes over and it you know it moves and it dies off and then it comes back so we're this is what we just this
56:58
cycle on the lake is ever changing it's it's constant and uh and that's one of
57:04
the challenges of we're trying to we're trying to keep up all the time on all these changes and it's fascinating
57:10
because as I told you at lunch one of the biggest problems I see
57:17
with your community the scientific community is that you don't tell people what you're doing i mean this is all
57:24
fascinating stuff and and and all all you hear about is "Yeah well they
57:30
stopped that that development it would have been great we could have housed you know 150 people and poo poo on them." as
57:37
opposed to listening to the stuff that you guys are doing i mean we need to tell the world about this man i told you
57:43
that at lunch i I'm fascinated by this stuff i could talk about this stuff all day long we try we try all the time and
57:50
it's it's you know it's it's like everything we compete for space right just like any other any other topic out
57:56
there so to speak but uh the angler community loves this stuff this like I I'm a hardcore angler so I love like I
58:02
live for this stuff just like you do too right so this stuff that's like that's my bonus of my job is I get to learn a
58:08
lot of the and then apply it yes and I get to use it to my advantage uh you mentioned the quaga um
58:15
consuming the phytolanton all the micro organisms in the water
58:23
did that turn into a problem initially when this started happening because obviously
58:28
that's the bedrock of of life in in any waterway is the the the zup plankton and
58:34
phytolankton not yet but that's when I talk about like let's look out 30 years 40 years
58:40
and see does it then lead to a problem and that's not where we're at yet and so we're trying to sort of really nail it
58:46
down and the one thing with lakes single you know it's big like it's it's dramatically smaller than the Great
58:52
Lakes but we're able to track the same issues that are experienced in like you know like Lake Ontario or Lake Erie but
58:58
we see the responses much quicker cuz the lake's smaller right so we're able to really evaluate what happens when
59:05
these species come in or these nutrient uh dynamic changes a little quicker than they can on the Great Lakes because
59:11
they're just so big so it acts as a bit of a laboratory for the Great Lakes
59:16
because we literally act just like one um we have we have a big shallow bay like a Cooks Bay which is just like kind
59:23
of like Lake Erie we've got uh Captainfeld Bay by Barry acts like Lake Hiron deep and cold and then the rest of
59:29
the lake is kind of like Lake Ontario right so we we were able to really kind of get gauge a lot of this in a fast way
59:36
and watch like we have we we made some decisions years ago which now look what
59:41
like we were like brilliant but we we did baseline aquatic habitat mapping and benthic mapping and uh uh uh zoo plank
59:49
we have um a historical record of where the muscle distribution has changed over time how aquatic plants in the entire
59:55
lake have changed what's the bug community of the lake that we're able to we do this on a cycle were able to show
1:00:01
those changes uh and have that amazing record which is hard you can't do on the Great Lakes right like that's it's how
1:00:07
do you do that on Lake Ontario and also you've got the whole B national issue with you know we're able to do it and
1:00:13
use that as reference material to help inform the Great Lakes managers on both sides of the border h have
1:00:19
[Applause] um have you do you do you share this information with other groups like is
1:00:26
this something that um that either other conservation authorities or maybe even
1:00:32
private enterprise can tap into because it seems to me you you guys are sitting on a a wealth of data that can help not
1:00:39
just your immediate areas but hell halfway across the world do you share this stuff oh yeah absolutely in
1:00:46
different ways so we work collaboratively of course with all the provincial ministries and the and the
1:00:52
key federal ones that are uh we're involved with our uh research staff are especially like we we have two PhD
1:00:59
limnologists two lake doctors right like like that's a rarity to have uh two detail specialists that uh of that level
1:01:07
uh and our our senior one is he he works with two universities we work with US Fish and Wildlife Service Michigan DNR
1:01:13
New York DNR uh you name it we're involved with the Great Lakes uh so so
1:01:19
on the science side it's shared in that collective on the public side we have a lot of this resource on our website like
1:01:25
there's uh fact sheets on aquatic plants and a bunch of other stuff we also have an open data portal so the bulk so much
1:01:31
of our data is available on an open data portal free access to anyone uh uh for
1:01:36
for specific data so we we we try to share as much and it's cuz we believe that the the work and the data collected
1:01:43
is on the public dime you know most of it comes from you know uh tax money that so we believe it should be open access
1:01:49
so we provide that on our website through our website to get to the to get to and mapping and data uh all kinds of
1:01:57
stuff so our our our website is really uh has a lot of access to information is
1:02:04
it developed by a scientist or is it developed by somebody who speaks basic
1:02:11
basic no no we have we have both no we have we have both and and uh it's it's like the the the data itself is you know
1:02:18
pretty typical data it's it's data but we have but the fact sheets and all the other stuff is written uh for anglers
1:02:24
and and users uh and lot lot less Latin a lot more common language perfect
1:02:30
because that's obviously if it's not being used it's because people have probably gone there and said "Whoa I've
1:02:35
got to get I'm not here." Right but but I'm curious now we we've been we've been
1:02:40
focusing our attention um on smallmouth but uh has this phenomenal transition
1:02:47
affected the other game fish has anybody else benefited from it other than smallmouth well white fish certainly
1:02:54
have cuz I mean I think we talked earlier the white fish have completely changed onto the I I don't know the
1:02:59
percentage but a huge chunk of their diet now is on goi um and they even will
1:03:05
even incidentally take in muscles and and be able to process them but the goi has shifted it completely i think uh
1:03:11
perch are definitely predating on the smaller younger gobies like when they're uh young so that that has changed as
1:03:17
well i think uh it doesn't it's not a lake i mean I'm sure lake trout will take one if he's down by the rocks and
1:03:23
sees one but they're still more of a pelagic looking for the looking for herring or or shiners out in the open
1:03:30
water but for are shiners are shiners native no emerald Shiners aren't no I
1:03:36
didn't think so so they must have gotten in from fish they've been here for they've been here forever but and man
1:03:41
you you've seen some of the schools out there they're just like like just it's 200 yards in every direction and it's
1:03:47
just the wall of silver going through the water and Yeah it's funny because you don't think of them as as even a
1:03:54
forge base on that lake no but they are very very very big forge base uh and
1:04:00
like they used to be a huge forage base for like white fish and but that that has changed and I think uh that also
1:04:07
might be why some of the schools of shiners have increased over the while and I think that's also like um why we've seen a response back from herring
1:04:14
uh that the there's less predation on the herring uh the young herring and the
1:04:20
herring also have all these small uh uh emerald chiners to feed on I think that
1:04:26
has help helped them respond so I think it's This is the challenge with I mean it's
1:04:31
managing like I don't envy the M&R on these managing the fishery is tough um
1:04:37
because when you have changes that like like we talk about Lake Simco it's probably changed more
1:04:43
ecologically in the last 200 years than in the 2,000 years before that why is that cuz well for for the millennia it
1:04:51
was just generally forested you had uh you know first nation people and then
1:04:56
European settlement came started clearing the land we went to industrial then the trend waterway came in and
1:05:02
changed the lake you know we we have a completely it's a manipulated system it doesn't it fluctuates half a meter
1:05:08
annually that's it like link is a very stable lake the invasive species and
1:05:13
everything else so like climate change and you start throwing in all that so you look at the last 200 years what gone
1:05:18
on in this lake it's significant and yet this lake is still robust great fishery
1:05:24
with all that all that you know that that that that's a good news story that we so that's why I get I get a little
1:05:31
frustrated sometimes when people say you're not doing enough or the lake's not good enough I'm like let's take a look at this I think this lake is doing
1:05:37
great considering the challenges it's faced oh my god anybody anybody says that to you they obviously just came
1:05:44
crawl out of a cave because there is not a more uh robust and fertile and and
1:05:51
just a a wonderful environment than that whole Lake Sink wershed i mean everywhere you go there it just oozes
1:05:57
with nature and and considering that it's sitting surrounded by like I said
1:06:03
one of the largest populations urban populations in in North America that's the thing that makes it really
1:06:08
outstanding to me any Hey is there any truth to the rumor i keep hearing it uh
1:06:13
but I don't dig in far enough that smelt are on their way back
1:06:19
that one's a tough one i Every year it's like this right i I you hear the stories you see them you don't see them um I
1:06:27
they're I think they're the same thing they're just responding they're having good years bad years i don't I don't think I would say there's a from what I
1:06:33
know there's a full response um but they still you know every once in a while every they show up in good numbers but I
1:06:40
don't think it's not like the herring like the herring came out like they were around and they just disappeared and
1:06:47
then they when they came back they came back with a vengeance like they were like everywhere and they and they still
1:06:53
are strong so that that you know why did that happen so just dramatically that uh
1:06:59
smelt has not had that same kind of response okay cuz that would be that'd be a good one i'd love to see that come
1:07:05
back for sure yeah yeah it' be popular with a lot of people oh boy get the old net out that used to be that used to be
1:07:13
such a great time you know and I know we people my age keep saying "Yeah well in the old days you know but but that you
1:07:19
know there's an example there that was a a culture that whole smelt fishery on around the Great Lakes has developed a
1:07:25
subculture that that people waited annually for this big migration of fish
1:07:30
and it was entire communities embracing it." And it was great yeah it was a big
1:07:36
deal it was definitely a big deal and as a little kid you remember those images you know the it was fantastic um what's
1:07:42
um what's the hot button right now for you what what do you guys uh either in
1:07:48
terms of concerns or maybe uh in terms of successes what is that one hot button
1:07:55
that you're sitting on um right now the I think the one of the big ones is still
1:08:00
trying to understand this nutrient change and the dynamic with qua muscles and uh and star storm wart and what's
1:08:08
going on is is uh really like what does that mean long
1:08:14
term and then really understanding is that are we are we heading to a challenge or are we heading just down
1:08:19
the same path and I think that's trying to understand that and that's where a lot of our focus is on right now where
1:08:24
uh we have a couple big projects underway way we're really trying to reestablish the model what does the
1:08:29
ecological model like simple look like in this state because it's changed so much in the last 20 years so I think one we're we're tracking i think one that uh
1:08:37
we're a little less involved in but one that is concerning which M&R is tracking invol involved in heavily in the invasive species center is water soldier
1:08:45
water Soldier is an aquatic plant from Florida uh probably got in through aquariums and it's now uh across uh the
1:08:54
lower parts of Cooks Bay and um and that one is a uh if you know water soldier it
1:08:59
takes over it can take over as a like a floating mat it it uh it rises and falls
1:09:05
from night to day so it kind of falls in the water at night and it comes back up in the day and it can create like a mat
1:09:10
which and it's pretty impenetrable so that that is concerning uh for the the
1:09:16
shallower parts of the lake wow and it's in Cooks Bay now yeah that it it first I
1:09:23
think got picked up a couple about two years ago and then last year they did a bigger assessment and then it was uh much more prevalent than I think anyone
1:09:29
had hoped uh unfortunately and uh so that's one where the I know the invasive species center is uh quite involved and
1:09:35
kind of developed a bit of a a plan on how to is there a way to address it can we can it can it be removed or not i
1:09:42
don't I don't know where they're at with fully with that yet i going to have an update actually in a couple weeks on that it's a good time to ask you this
1:09:48
question where does the angling community sit in this picture can they be of are
1:09:56
they can they be of help to you oh absolutely um like the we've always had
1:10:02
good relationships with all the different Bassmaster groups like I was an old I was one of the guys that brought the Bass Masters into Ontario
1:10:07
back uh in the '90s when I was when I was in Kitner i was the president of the KW Bassbasters and brought that whole
1:10:13
group in and uh uh we've always had great relationships working with them on uh take a kid fishing days and cleanups
1:10:20
and other things and so they've been very good off we've always had a relationship with uh of course with OFH
1:10:26
and and and more the advocacy the broader the bigger picture role uh you know but there isn't um like there isn't
1:10:32
a specific like Lake Sinco angling group right it's it's driven by there was
1:10:38
always a small muskies group try to do musky restoration up in the north end of the lake we've always had a couple there's a couple different you've got
1:10:43
Aurora Bass Masters and and Hogtown and Port Perry and a couple other groups
1:10:48
that are on the bassing side uh but so there isn't really a big hanging group i think the biggest one for the anglers is
1:10:56
hey engage and learn just like like like you're you were talking about an and and also uh making sure to uh you know put
1:11:03
your your thoughts and your opinions and voice them out to to the province and to the ministries to say hey we want to
1:11:08
protect the lake we want to if you're interested in lake trout or white fish what's going on stocking are you interested in bass like what's the
1:11:15
status on the on the bass fishery etc so I think it's really getting uh just involved engaged in uh making sure that
1:11:22
you you know help protect the resource but also protect uh you know uh we
1:11:27
continue to see the the challenges around angling and hunting across uh North America and I think wanting sure
1:11:34
to protect that that opportunity to have those uh those rights not uh uh
1:11:39
challenge so they so you can get out and ice fish on Lake Simco uh or go bass fishing with your with your kids so I
1:11:45
think those are the areas where the angling community can definitely be a part of uh helping out uh do you rely on
1:11:51
them for information at all like do you send do do you send for example you mentioned bass clubs do you say to bass
1:11:58
clubs hey guys uh next weekend if you're if you're having that tournament uh
1:12:03
would you mind being on the lookout for the soldier yeah there's some of some of that goes
1:12:09
on we definitely uh chat to them about certain times that like some things are going on or we or we use them as eyes
1:12:15
and ears like uh one of the things they're out in the water right that's one thing with anglers they're out in the water the most and they they pick up
1:12:21
on stuff and we get phone calls regularly about hey I saw this or I found this or what is this like I don't
1:12:26
even know what this even is uh we get our staff myself or others get invited out cuz like it's kind of my world i'm
1:12:33
an angler so I invite some of our science staff got invited out to the various clubs to talk about hey what's
1:12:38
going on in Lake Simco and you can imagine the bass clubs love that stuff so they love getting all the the
1:12:44
nitty-gritty on where the plants and what's going on with the goi so they they live for that stuff so so we we do
1:12:49
that uh on as well so we're always we we definitely are there to help uh educate the public on any on any front all right
1:12:56
educate me uh what's the prime
1:13:02
depth to find the biggest concentration of gobies
1:13:08
uh probably once they're past the 10 to 12 foot down to about that that 20 20 24T
1:13:15
is that prime zone like they're they're they're in shallow but they don't like
1:13:20
when the when the current gets heavy on the wave action so they're the bigger populations are pushed off but and and
1:13:26
it's that mix of uh like good hard gravel cobble with some sand spots like
1:13:32
that's the areas that they they love they love the most like it's not just pure sand or just one sheet of gravel
1:13:38
it's that mixed habitat where they have little boulders where they can dart in and out of that's the stuff they love
1:13:43
the most non-current yeah they don't like current they're not a big uh like they'll they'll tuck in
1:13:50
like when you when you watch like what's going on in St lawrence when the the the big bass those guys are fishing all the
1:13:55
current breaks right cuz that's where the the bass are hiding in there but that's where the gobies are hiding cuz they're they don't want too much current
1:14:02
um like on the lake there's not a lot of current but they don't like big wave action okay you just helped me out for
1:14:08
my next trip to Lake Simco um listen I could talk to you for days you
1:14:14
know that uh we uh we uh we kind of locked ourselves in on that lunching
1:14:19
that lunch afternoon and we didn't speak to a whole lot of other people uh but that's because we think the same and and
1:14:25
we have the same interests and uh and that's fantastic there's nothing wrong with that u I'd like to give you an open
1:14:32
invitation to speak to the angling community on a more regular basis uh sure using this
1:14:40
platform or or any uh fishing platform i just think you need to do it i really
1:14:46
think that it's good for not just anglers to find out but I think it's good for you too to find uh
1:14:53
inadvertently you'll get you'll get rewards back for what you know what I mean
1:15:00
so I just think you need to do more of it man yeah absolutely glad to help and do it and um uh glad to come on again
1:15:06
and talk about any topic around the lake or the wershed and also our one lake doctor uh Dr brian again he's a
1:15:12
fascinating speaker and and he will I am not doing him justice today i'll be quite honest like trying to talk about
1:15:18
some of the stuff like like I'm a biologist and but I'm a I'm a I'm I'm an
1:15:23
administrator now i don't get to play out in the field like and do the things I used to do and Brian is so in depth
1:15:29
and knowledgeable and he can really have that great ability to convert science into into language where everyone can
1:15:36
really grasp a hold of it and so he's a a really great uh opportune guy to have on we'll be anytime we would gladly
1:15:43
gladly help out and uh be available to you perfect and and uh we have another friend in common i mentioned to you uh
1:15:50
Dr cook Steven Cook is a regular on this program and you and him worked together uh for a number of years uh so that's uh
1:15:57
we go we go way back i remember when he was uh the young under young undergrad
1:16:02
uh back in the both of us were at Grand River Conservation Authority in uh Cambridge so I've known Steve for a long
1:16:08
time good all right my friend i will let you go um we will talk to you very very
1:16:14
soon hopefully we'll have another afternoon at the Franklin Club i wouldn't mind I wouldn't mind getting in
1:16:20
on something like that for sure cuz I found that fascinating it totally goes against you know everything that I've
1:16:25
grown up believing about nature wild and fishing and the purpose of getting out
1:16:31
there but I got to tell you it was refreshing as hell i really enjoyed it i just uh it's a nice experience it's just
1:16:37
something different it's a little different but it's a pleasure right and I learned something there i mean aside
1:16:43
from from all the information from you uh there was a a couple of young guys at
1:16:49
one point around the the big pond and they were clamoring over fish and they
1:16:55
were releasing it and the one buddy was saying "Yeah that's a that's a speckled trout." And
1:17:02
uh I thought "That's not a speckled trout." You know but I didn't want to say anything right
1:17:08
so a little later on uh one of those guy the same guy who
1:17:13
said it was speckled trout he was with another group of guys and same thing was happening he said "Yeah yeah those are those are speckled trout." And so I
1:17:20
leaned into him and I said "Hey listen um I it's hard to really tell the difference but especially in this but
1:17:27
that's not a speckled trout." Well guess what it was a speckled trout cuz I got confirmation from it later on at lunch
1:17:34
yeah there there's some native uh native brook trout specs whatever yeah they're native in there but they don't look like
1:17:41
they don't look like your normal average speck no they're a little um their
1:17:46
colors are a little like they're muted like they're just a little paler i think it's just cuz the the water is a very
1:17:52
kind of that green tinge so I think they just blend in they don't have to have that deep camouflage tiger back that
1:17:59
they do in the creeks right so well I have lost a ton of money that day if somebody was betting me on that one i
1:18:05
thought they look like lake trout to me they look like a lake trout that's that's exactly what I thought they were
1:18:11
but yeah if if you ever want to do you want to come out and see what the on the research boat and see what the the gang does glad to have you out and uh show
1:18:18
you what we do on on collecting some of the samples and that and see it see some of this science live it's pretty it's
1:18:23
some pretty pretty cool stuff love to buddy absolutely love to we will I'm so glad that uh we met that day again um
1:18:30
and uh hopefully it'll lead to all kinds of collaboration um with anglers and
1:18:36
scientists which is to me uh the perfect combination for the outdoors uh we will
1:18:44
talk to you uh very soon I'm sure thanks pleasure all the best uh Rob Baldwin
1:18:50
chief administrative officer for the Lake Simco Conservation Authority and uh I got to tell you I was so excited about
1:18:57
getting him on the show here because uh yes he's a scientist but much like
1:19:04
Steven Cook uh Dr cook he speaks our language and that's when I mentioned uh
1:19:10
about the language that's used on their site uh when they're trying to communicate with anglers you know is it
1:19:16
in English is it isn't something we can understand and he knew right away what I meant um fascinating gentleman
1:19:22
fascinating organization flies way way under the radar for my liking i think uh
1:19:29
that should change i think we should be and doesn't sound like there's there's a
1:19:35
lack of uh access to data and information but I think we as anglers should inform ourselves a little bit
1:19:40
more about what they do because I think it can help us not just on maintaining this wonderful uh Lake Simco watershed
1:19:48
but in other areas as well so anyways fascinating guys look them up i'm sure they're they've got a wonderful website
1:19:54
uh that you can go to etc uh I want to remind everybody about the uh giveaways
1:20:00
on fishingcanada.com that are ongoing every single day from what I'm told
1:20:05
we're giving away stuff like sonar and and outboard motors and I'm telling you
1:20:13
I'm telling you what's up right now Dean do you know what's what's up for grabs right now uh we're recording a batch of
1:20:20
podcasts here so I don't want to give anything away but we have some big stuff from Garmin coming up i believe
1:20:26
Mercury's getting involved again with some stuff so uh keep an eye on the website for sure and Princecraft weren't
1:20:32
they supposed to Aren't we supposed to have a boat and we had a boat at one point it needed a motor now we have a
1:20:38
motor without a boat so we need some coordination yeah
1:20:43
uh anyways uh all kinds of stuff it's uh always free and always available at
1:20:49
fishingcanada.com while you're there uh go check out the store nice little items like I'm wearing today a very simple
1:20:56
little piece but uh tells the whole story all you need to say all you need to see um that's it i think we're done i
1:21:04
want to thank everybody uh hopefully next uh issue Mr bowman will be with us
1:21:09
and no not not hoping i know he won't but he will be back on the show uh keep
1:21:15
an eye out uh for all good things happening with Fishing Canada television show uh for the entire crew VA Nick Dean
1:21:23
I'm Angelo thanks for joining us [Applause]
1:21:32
for this episode of Outdoor Journal Radio has been brought to you in part by
1:21:38
the Invasive Species Center protecting Canada's land and water from invasive species freedom Cruise Canada rent the
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