Snakehead Tastes Better Than Walleye? | Outdoor Journal Radion ep. 148

Name: Snakehead Tastes Better Than Walleye? | Outdoor Journal Radion ep. 148
Uploaded: 2025-01-13T16:25:51+00:00
Duration: 1 h 26 min 9 s

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[Music] we've been getting a lot of letters lately and messages from folks saying
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hey how come you guys don't talk about Co fish for example or fish you know they're a little less on the radar for
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most sport Anglers so we that who the hell do we know that knows a thinker do with this and there you are so there
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that's why you're here uh his name is Joe surelly I am a longtime champion of
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Underdog fish yeah but uh man I've done it all I'm like gator gar in Texas is a
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fish I've said a million times everybody should catch once before they die I mean to see a 100 plus pound fish come out of
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a tinyy river and go Airborne is fantastic uh the gar you guys have I fly
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fish for them in Virginia and see that's me I'll come I'll come all the way up there in October just to catch a big
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drum um and and the bof fin I mean I'm I'm head over heels for bof Fin and um I
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I will be the first to say you know you get a big bow fin on the line it will put the fight of a big large Mount of
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equal size to sh are gnarly fish and they will fight you from Hook set until they are in uh snake
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heads are delicious I mean they are they are one of the best eating freshwater fish that I I've ever had I kid you guys
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not you you're Canadian I'll take a deep fried piece of Snakehead over Wallock
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[Music]
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[Applause] oh this episode episode of Outdoor Journal radio is brought to you in part
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by the invasive species Center protecting Canada's land and water from invasive species Freedom Cruise Canada
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rent the boat own the memories jmbb Cyca Marine your home for all things Power
1:47
Sports boats and equipment and sail the ultimate destination for your Outdoor
1:56
Adventures what you looking at hello everybody perfect timing for you to take
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a drink while we uh celebrate uh episode what number
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episode are we celebrating D 148 148 I think I don't like saying that cuz you know things come up somebody cheats in a
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tournament 140 something around 150 that's right I was that yeah uh welcome
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to the program Outdoor Journal radio the podcast uh Peter Bowman Angelo Viola and
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the cast the team Nick and Dean come on now all welcoming you to this exciting
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episode a good friend of ours who hasn't been on for a little while now uh is going to be joining us a little later on
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his name is Joe surelly uh from New Jersey former fishing editor uh at Field
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and Stream magazine and who hasn't read that wonderful product read a lot of those in my day uh he authored uh Field
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and Stream fishing manuals those I have not read I have I have one in my bathroom by Joe get the hell out of here
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no kidding that's awesome I should tell him that you should when he on uh he also uh give a phone call while you're
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having a poop and you're reading it and sort of we can always count on you for
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bringing up the the quality level of this going to be in the bathroom for you going to have it watch it when he's
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shower or look at it when he's showering no pages will get wet also uh he is former host of fishing streams hook
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shots uh meat eaters does boat I didn't even know that that existed that's good
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one you should watch that it's pretty really now he doesn't do that anymore he did one season of it one season do boat
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what's the premise of that one they take like an old tin boat that they buy off some guy and they send it around the
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country and each angler has to put like their little modification on it wow and then at the end they have this like
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fully built up little Timbo and then they auction it off that's a great idea a great idea why didn't I think of that
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Dean I don't know yeah I think it's wonderful I than uh and also meat eaters bide fishing that was all about like you
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know the co fish which we're going to talk about today I mean the reason we had him on we have him coming on first
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of all he's also host of cut and RTI podcast which is current uh it's on
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every week I believe uh Joe will fill us in on that uh last time he was here uh
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on episode 52 that was almost a 100 episodes ago in case you're wow that's
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pretty cool the way I do that math is incredible just can't believe we've done that that many podcasts come on now uh
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uh on that episode we talked about the striper bass that was heading northward
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along the Eastern Seaboard and into the uh Atlantic provinces in Canada and he kind of shed some light on that whole
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thing um but if nothing else a very interesting
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perspective on angling uh he has and that's why we brought him on because we've been getting a lot of letters
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lately and messages from folks saying hey how come you guys don't talk about course fish for example or fish you know
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that are a little less on the radar for most sport Anglers and quite honestly I mean we've done a lot of carp programs
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in the past we've done um some gar pipe a little bit yeah a little bit of gar little bit of sheep head a little bit of
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sheep head but not much yeah you did a sheep head show in quiny few years ago
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and it was it was absolutely incredible and I said i' do it again and again and
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again and I haven't done it again I haven't done it since but that's that's the some of the best fishing like dude 20 lb sheepies vertical jigging 20
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pluss remember if I remember that episode uh you guys had some snotty weather to deal with though right no no
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it wasn't bad that it was cold it was cold man it was cold and you probably remember us going out from the the docks
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and we had our gear all on freezing but it was a it was a cold front day it was sunny but nasty and that didn't look
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like a place where I wanted hang out it wasn't July with your shorts on for sure
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so any we'll explore all of those possibilities with Joe uh Sur Melly when he comes on here in a few minutes first
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uh shop. fishing canada.com last uh last episode I told you we had some new some
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new product that was being unveiled shortly and hat short of having the new
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products what I wanted to do is show you some of the additional patterns that will be available uh probably as we
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speak uh there's one there so so that is the rainbow trout for instance will it
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be only available on that colored hoodie right now or is it going to be on different colors and no I think that
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that it will be coming out on this which is uh a light gray P so then we'll
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expand later if we it'll be available all all different colors but I wanted to show the patterns cuz this might be some
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of the best stitch work I have ever seen on this is incredible uh the the colors
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are brilliant on that uh the shinook salmon is another one
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I like that I like that back color my favorite of all of them has got to be the brook trout well I mean you can't
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you certainly can't knock that one iconic Canadian fish right and a remake
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of the Walley on a different colored the golden is the is so you remade the
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walleye fish the fish itself and the hoodie is like everything right we had a Walle IE went out before yeah but but
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but we we the oh that's a whole otherall game my God
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figur they sneak in we are out buddy we're out of a job um yeah a little more of the DOR version of the wall ah I got
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you D all of these will be available if not already available by the time you
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watch this podcast very nice nice work Timmy and crew that's awesome campus crew Timmy and campus crew hey that
7:53
was right there and you might even see these two handsome devils look at them
7:59
for those of you might not know I think I think Nick's shoulders are wider than Dean's and I don't know if that's a
8:04
reality or not Nick looks like he jack he photoshopped he did he must be yeah he photoshopped Jack look at him he's
8:11
but he made me taller than him which is nice well I think my head is a little
8:17
bit higher uh Dean and Nick for everybody nice round of applause for them would be
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wonderful say woo you don't have that button anymore do you no I got rid of it yeah we got to get you more buttons is
8:30
there an add-on we can put on your set there to get another board going oh a double board do know be like a
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keyboard listener feed that's uh fishing canada.com by the way uh or the store
8:44
you'll see all this wonderful stuff the Christmas sale is on as we speak really some really good Barons happen it's
8:50
beginning to look a lot like Christmas it is unfor De right now it is it is it comes so fast boys it it's like
8:57
November's gone it was just gone I don't remember just think if that uh if that's the case and we are into by the time
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this is up into December that means that we're just a few months away from
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embarking on our incredible fishing Canada journey
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to our 40th year give me a hell yeah that's where the hell yeah our 40th year
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of broadcast coming up in 26 but before that uh the great uh series that we shot
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this past year the 2025 broadcast season is only a few weeks away you don't want to miss that one baby let me tell you
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right now some good in there great stuff great stuff uhhuh listener feedback Mr
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Bowman listener feedback from Steve mallerie via Facebook very nice I like
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that every now and then they throw in a different uh you know a little Source have always loved your show hoping for
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more shows in high pressured locations uh the LOD thing uh I'm sure
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pays the bills well you got that right Steve it doesn't hurt that we love
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shooting in those areas either by the way but it doesn't make us that much better in high pressure lakes and
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systems I disagree with you by the way just I'll tell you why in a minute um thanks again for the info and for your
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time tight lines that Steve malery via Facebook uh reason being I say that CU
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sometimes we just make assumptions that high pressured fish are different than
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fish that don't get any pressure and I'll tell you what the difference why I
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think that that's a wrong assumption and I've got so many case studies where this
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this comes true fish that are in remote areas that don't get pressured are in a
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lot of cases more weary than fish who do you might think that fish that are in uh
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urban areas for example will be different than the northern fish the
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difference is the northern fish when they hear a Ting on a boat or a couple
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of guys talking too loud or yelling and screaming up on the surface or um a boat
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approaching the silhouette of a boat approaching are a lot more skittish than fish that are in high pressure areas
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because they're used to it quite frankly they hear outboard motors going overhead all the time they hear people clanging
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and banging and there's a little more wiggle room in pressured areas in my
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opinion than those remote areas those fish are tough the reason now there's
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more of them and there's less competition from other Anglers for that
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fish but the fish itself it's a little more on its on its toes I find and uh
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and you know what that's a good point our Yeah the more outboard motors just
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outboard motors in you go to a lake Like Rice Lake for example the Wake bers the
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pleasure boers the uh pontoon boers the all the pleasure Bo aside from the
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Anglers yeah you're right there's they're used to it outboard motors mean nothing to them but an outboard motor on
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even a place like laxu that's a big giant uh body of water with relatively
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low pressure when they hear outboard motors those fish are already a little
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little bit weary about what's coming next and what's coming next is this weird looking something or other is
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dropped in front of him that's not the real and well well you know and and you
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say that but that's why in those areas sometimes nothing short of a live
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minnow will Coke fish the biting we've seen that for sure whereas in the
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pressured areas the more urban areas artificial baits are are usually the the
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winning ticket you don't have to get to using I'll give I'll give Steve a little tip too a little nugget here that he can
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use for to uh to learn a little bit here Stephen whoever else wants to learn if
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you go to our our website or YouTube page or whatever like that and we have
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every show we have a hot spot okay if you were to just take five of those hot spots Let's Take Five far away spots
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you're thinking oh my God they're out in the middle of nowhere take those hotspots throw them into your GPS and not that you're going
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to go there but take a look what it at your Contours take a look at everything all of a sudden you're saying oh those
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guys are fishing that hump on the hard the fast break on that hump on that side that's cool go to your popular lakes and
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start looking at for places like that you know what I mean so it does maybe you can't get to these lakes in
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Northwest Territories but those hotspots they tell a lot every one of those things every one of those way points we
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put on there tells you a lot of information not only for there you can look at that anywhere and everywhere else so we do that all the time when an
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and I look at a map um we're looking for these hotspot type of areas and we're seeing them there okay that I remember
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that from that leg over there that so it's a a little tip that people can it's funny CU sometimes you know we we we
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give you hot spots to remote remote areas that probably 99% of you will
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never go the lodge goers that go to that trip and you're right because you know you might think well what why are we
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wasting time because of what Pete just said you know you can take that information
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and translate that to your favorite fishing abely at the end of the day fish
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or fish or fish or fish they very much adhere to a lot of the same types of structures and living areas they do from
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Lake to Lake so just keep that in mind so uh before we get on to Joe surelly
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who by the way is going to talk to us about Urban fishing areas that he's in New Jersey so it doesn't any more urban
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than that he spends a lot of time on the local Waters uh is Bobby urig from New Jersey too do you do you know uh great
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question was great question anyway sorry haven't talked where did he come from I we haven't mentioned that name in 100
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years Jersey I think it must be he must be from Jersey because I'm it hit anyway
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uh time for conservation cor you're brought to you by the good people at the invasive species Center who are on uh on point there's
15:24
never a day that they let this a good show to bring this in because we're going to be talking about karp for sure right Joel talk about carp I think as
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well not only carp but I know that he spends a lot of time with a lot of Co
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fish and fish like uh uh Snakehead which is an invasive species South of the
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Border right and um probably a good time to to just say that although South of
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the Border invasive species are prevalent not so much here especially
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the one we want to mention that is the gra grass carp that we keep talking about on this show so they've taken a
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bit of a different approach down there and that is that it's there and it ain't
16:05
going anywhere and so they're now learning how to work with it deal with it right and
16:12
they've made it into a sportfish as such um that they actually go chasing down
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you know or or the ones that shoot them with the arrows the silver carp is it one the another one that they're they're
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saying well you know what there's millions of them here let's have some fun with it and beat them up at the same time so we're talking about has not uh
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set Roots yet north of the border and we're hoping that we can sort of uh nip
16:36
it in the bud as it were uh however there are definitely some here that have
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already been documented this is grass carp we're talking about right yeah one of the four invasive uh Asian carps that
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we need to be worried about because they will change the landscape in our fishing for sure uh this particular one grass
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carp as the name would um kind of some light on will
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consume a vegetation like nothing you could ever imagine yeah up ass 40 uh% of
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its body weight every day yeah that's a lot that's the part that's alarming about that's an eating machine when you
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think about it for sure if we could imagine if we ate that much 40% of your body weight every day I used to I used
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to no you didn't you've never eaten that much you don't do that in a week I looked like I used
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to boom yeah he doesn't have that button oh he's got that button he found it Dean
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found that one uh anyways like I mentioned there's no current established populations here yet however what we can
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do as Anglers who spend a lot of time on the water uh be vigilant know what you
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need to know about these fish yes yes go to Asian
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carp.com on the look of these fish because I'll tell you what when you
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finally do see one as we've whenever we see a new species of fish and like what
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what was that you know what I mean so you find out and then you say hey I know that's a grass carp I am going to keep
18:06
this fish I'm going to report it to the Asian carpc people to the ministry of natural resources and Forestry wherever
18:12
and whoever and let's give uh conservation cor brought to you by the invasive species center now in the news
18:20
Mr Bowman is there any more carp stuff or anything here is it we stand news is all about ice fishing new to ice
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transition here're we're transitioning transition topics it's it's December so so no easy way to
18:35
transition other than this was a hard transition this one this is a hard for from one to the other to back to the other right I got that new ice fishing
18:42
in P Pennsylvania I'm assuming this Pennsylvania right yeah pish PA I looked at that PA see I'm pretty good at that
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you're excellent you're excellent psylvia Fish and Boat Commission is offering notice how I kept talking so the Ang couldn't give me [ __ ] and or
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slag me or whatever virtual intro to ice fishing program so there's 200 available
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this is a good idea I think actually to be honest with you I mean I don't know what it entails if it costs money if it
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doesn't cost any money doesn't cost any money right off the Hop there right so I'm assuming is an is it an online thing deal yeah Dino uh I think that you
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actually used to offer it person I believe it might be online now though fish it's virtual now yeah fishing boat
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staff along with fishing skills instructor Don Kelly owner of tackle Shack in Wellsboro Pennsylvania who lead
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the class covering ice safety where to find fish in the winter an introduction to Habitat map we were just talking
19:29
about the maps basic ice fishing gear needed uh Next Level ice fishing gear and how to use your ice fishing gear I
19:35
think uh ice fishing is probably the best way to introduce new Anglers to the to the sport yeah you know a boat you
19:43
don't need anything you can you can pretty much do it everywhere there isn't a an urban center that that doesn't have
19:49
ice fishing in close proximity the only problem you'll have is parking your vehicle to access the waters that you
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probably the wat's public but you might have to watch but that's the only that's the only issue you'd have and then that can easily get by with that right so
20:03
yeah think it's a good idea you know in the past it's been very difficult even as basic as ice fishing is there's still
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some dos and don'ts and there's some some uh tips and techniques that will improve your experience and I think it's
20:17
a great idea whether you do it in person or virtual to kind of assimilate yourself into that culture the ice
20:25
fishing culture and what better way to do it than a classroom especially F you don't have to go driving around and
20:30
fantastic great idea great idea so there you go uh that's in the news and it's on fishing canada.com as we speak come on
20:39
now fan question please now we at that brought to you by fishfindermounts.com one of our new favorite companies buddy
20:46
oh nothing better great guys to work with they listen and they produce fantastic items to use for us for us to
20:54
use in our Electronics so here is the question it was submitted by
21:00
everybody we've been getting this question like it's been coming in now for like like we probably get three a
21:07
day on this topic everybody so so we're just calling it everybody there too many names to put in this I like the way you
21:13
did that I like the the Countess uh oh the count speaking of everybody said to me the other day cuz
21:20
she listens to these podcasts okay come on yeah everyone everyone that goes up she listens there's a bunch of [ __ ]
21:26
there's not a bunch of [ __ ] you tell that you tell her that when she brings you your paycheck this week wow anyways
21:33
she said to me she like it does she like it some
21:39
some there's been a few there's been a few I didn't say it was good I didn't
21:44
say it was good that she oh God so here comes the but she made an interesting observation she said you know you guys
21:53
okay first of all let me let me sort of bring it back a little bit so you better
22:00
she's making this comment so the Countess is on her phone I don't know I I'm going to say
22:08
three hours a day who she talking to that long no no watching oh about 3
22:15
hours a day and what she is into now because she goes through these little
22:20
spurts right she's what she's into now is um uh it's a craze going on right now
22:28
people will go down to Vegas for example and they will set up a camera behind them as they play slot machines right
22:36
I've heard and and they it's a whole industry yeah I've these guys have got
22:41
like hundreds of thousands of viewers and the count us probably is part of
22:46
that part of the whole yeah she watches every but but one in particular it's a couple of guy or three guys and what
22:53
they do they read a fan question of the week oh actually they have
22:59
they have a fan question of the day because these guys put up a new video every day so they stole that from us W I
23:05
didn't want to say anything to her because you know she they listen to our podcast so cool hi guys thank you put a
23:11
couple bucks down it for us would you his name is Vegas Matt in case you want to check out so anyways but what they do
23:18
uh they when they are in trouble when they've made this part of their their stick right when they're
23:26
starting to go into a tail spin and as they call it start losing money right is
23:31
that what you're yeah they're they're getting oh they have a saying for that ah anyways uh when they're in trouble
23:37
and start losing money they say hhhh uh we need a fan question of the day so one
23:43
of them goes through and he pulls a fan question out and they do the fan
23:48
question and what they do is they give that fan question uh person that
23:54
submitted that fan question they give them something for it so they'll give him a t-shirt or they'll give him a a
24:01
coupon to go on their site to buy some of the swag or there's all kinds of
24:06
things that they give uh to incentivize people to send in letters why because
24:13
they use them every day they need a a ton of this stuff and inadvertently
24:18
every time they pull out one of these they win so they're on a record right now wow so she said why don't you guys
24:27
kind of do the same thing instead of just you know reading it out and having fun with why don't you
24:33
give them something we give them entries to contest everybody not just the people
24:38
who enter the or who submit a a question right right what she's saying is that
24:44
person like it wouldn't work today because you just said everybody right
24:50
right but we normally have a person that actually sent that in he see here here's what you do now you go to Tang we
24:56
started it and we did got to give everybody a hoodie now Monique what do you think of that idea of business she'd
25:03
buy into that no but you know like for example uh maybe we could give them um a
25:09
coupon to go online and get their own swag of preference yeah it would
25:14
encourage better questions probably better quality maybe maybe yeah because they know that we're only going to pick
25:19
the cream of the cream they put a little more thought into that that particular question right oh by the way they they
25:25
call it getting wrecked getting wrecked yeah we're getting wrecked now we're getting you know they're down 20 grand
25:31
or something we're getting wrecked we're getting wrecked pull out a pull out a question of the day I used to say that in Napal every Friday night your wrecked
25:38
is different we got wrecked anyways maybe it's something that uh you gentlemen
25:43
would like to give it some thought Nick Dean well you got the countess's
25:49
blessing we do if you have that then that means she's BL I think we should
25:54
personally if you want my opinion but don't let me influence you at all I I would give them like a 20% off coupon or
26:01
something you know I don't know I'm just say the store manager is listening to this so store manager is liking I like
26:06
he likes this he's uh his mind is going right now and then working very very much overtime that's what I would do for
26:12
our lovely audience so to motivate them to send in some real thought-provoking
26:18
questions uh give them something it's got to be Christmas close to Christmas isn't it cuz you're giving away you and
26:23
T that's that's awesome anyways everybody sent via email
26:29
uh wants to know what is a safe amount of ice thickness for fishing
26:35
snowmobiling driving Etc that's a pretty good question first of all we have a wonderful piece on fishing
26:41
canada.com that deals with this right d y and some pictures from that are behind you guys if you're watching on YouTube
26:47
there we go there you go we have a video on there of how to get out of the ice we have you know kind of ways to identify
26:54
clear ice versus Ice that might not be safe because all the like the uh like
26:59
the charts we have on there are all for clear ice um which we don't get a lot of
27:05
anymore that's the safest ice I'm assum now we're getting dark ice right
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white yeah it right there that's the dark and
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stuff that's funny I bet I I'm looking at this and I wrote down I said 3 to four inches for walking and they have 4
27:23
in for ice sing and skating three you can do it on good stuff and I rode 8 in for my truck cuz I wouldn't take my
27:29
truck on anything less than you're a genius how do you know this stuff like how is it possible that
27:36
one human being one brain has so much
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valuable information stored in it the thickness of ice that's what I that's what my teachers all said boy you're
27:46
going to make her big if you know the thickness of ice actually Peter wanted got wrecked
27:52
and then I went and got wrecked Peter wanted to be an astronaut I spoke to one of his uh uh that went to school with
27:59
him for a long time he says yeah he used to take space in school take up space I assumed you wanted to be an astronaut I
28:06
thought you're going to say the only thing that held me back was grade eight well there's that too we won't talk about that it may be a little embarrassing that was a bit tough on me
28:12
four years for the third time yeah good God years unbelievable I got her I got her done uh anyways uh to answer your
28:19
question everybody that wrote in uh this is the
28:25
Bible it's a good chart that's a good chart that's a good one and it's available on fishing canada.com how do
28:30
they find it Dean how do they uh I'm going to push it when this podcast is out it'll be on the homepage so I'm going to push it back up and take a look
28:36
at those two pictures too folks because uh is this going to be on the website is that all on the website that black ice
28:42
versus that white ice you're thinking that white ice is all good and good and good there's a lot of air in there not
28:47
that good so yeah I wanted to just clarify that 8 Ines that Pete was
28:52
talking about that would be for a small vehicle not not I would never drive my car on not a chance no wouldn't know not
28:59
a chance good ice is good black ice not a chance not a chance I I I I definitely wouldn't I don't I would I just don't
29:05
like the whole idea of putting a vehicle that that weighs between three and 5,000 lbs on anything other than asheva and
29:13
dirt true that's a good point that's me that's a good point I haven't driven a vehicle at ice in well when we were kids
29:18
we used to do it my dad used to do it but not very often even hases insurance cover it if you go in uh they have to
29:26
fight for that one I believe wasn't there a wow wasn't there some there's an article on that it was the same ideas I would
29:32
say no right off the bat I would say no yeah cuz you're doing something they're not anticipating your car doing right
29:38
like they I wouldn't think they'd cover that no just like I don't think they would cover if you go off-roading with
29:44
your vehicle and and you know jump over a cliff and and true blow the car up or
29:50
vehicle up I don't think they're they won't cover a boat in December in Open Water why would they cover a car so
29:58
that's something else to think about before you do venture out onto frozen
30:03
lakes with your vehicle this winter you might want to check with your insurance company just in case I love it when a
30:11
new ad just pops up on the desk by the way like it's almost like ad Living For Us isn't it literally uh this segment
30:17
the next segment of course with our special guest Geor surelly uh is brought to you by sale the outdoor stores and
30:24
they just handed us an ad that I have to read and it's a great one cuz it gets me in the for christm I can help you on it buddy I got one here you mind uh let's
30:31
start off by asking the folks if you've got loved ones that love to go fishing every weekend uh or maybe a a hunter in
30:39
your group in your family that needs a perfect Christmas gift well look no further than sale do you have a hunt a
30:45
Fisher in your family that wants to go every weekend no no I don't either no no
30:50
unfortunately well they have one this a dude right here and that dude right there but if you do uh this is a perfect
30:57
time of year to go visit sale The Outdoor Store and why is that Peter he guys they have from fishing rods and reels to sonars and fishing clothing and
31:04
from clothing to Boots and hunting cameras say goodbye to your guest works and get guest work and get ready to make your loved one very happy loved ones I'm
31:11
going to say on even though there one but you could do that yeah you read pretty good kid you know for napan high
31:17
school dropout that's not bad you know what buddy I was there about a day a week so that was all I needed really uh
31:24
that sale The Outdoor Store s a i l if you don't have one in in your neighborhood and you probably don't uh
31:30
they don't have that many stores out there they're so damn big they can't put them all over the place uh simply go to
31:36
sale.ca that's sale.ca do you want do you want us to give that a whole thing Dino I can say that if you want sale.ca
31:45
slen gi- ideas oh so they actually have ideas there that you can they can gift
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ideas go to that page in there and and you're you're happening all right You' be a rock star now it's time for a
31:55
special guest speaking of rock stars EX exactly hasn't been with us for a little while don't know why because we last
32:02
time we spoke if I recall we promised each other that we would do more of this and we were even going to see if we
32:08
could get him up to uh Canada to do a fishing Canada show he's been very busy he's been active on socials on Instagram
32:15
Etc is that his podcast of course he is the former editor of um at Field and
32:20
Stream uh you may know him as the author U of the Field and Stream fishing
32:25
manuals and a former host of field and streams hook shots which was a great U
32:32
uh production by the way uh meat eaters you've seen them there um he is now host
32:38
of the cut and RTI podcast I love that name and a new podcast outdoor life's
32:45
quick strike podcast oh nice this guy does more than we do welcome to Joe Joe
32:50
again welcome to the show what's up guys how we doing doing great doing good buddy no wonder you
32:57
don't uh videotape you're so busy with that yeah that youtubing would be just put you over the top wouldn't it yeah
33:04
it'd be a lot of uh irons in the fire and there's already a lot of those but I got to congratulate you guys last time I was here you did not have your studio
33:10
set up you're doing the video thing now so as I'm listening to you guys talk I'm going oh that's what it looks like when you do this professionally you guys
33:16
professionals I'm still doing it all janky guys I don't know about that Hey Joe we we brought you back cuz there's a
33:23
bunch of things we want to talk to you about but one thing that prompted it and and you know we're like you you get so damn busy and you you you you just
33:31
things slip through the cracks uh but but something came up recently for whatever reason we've been getting a lot
33:37
of uh emails and messages from our listeners and viewers uh asking us of all things and I don't know where it
33:43
came from um they're asking more and more questions about fishing for coar
33:48
fish and why don't we do more cor although we've done carp quite a bit on the show quite a bit but not a lot you
33:54
know well I mean let's let's be honest the fishing Canada television show is pretty much bass walleye Pike a little
34:01
bit of musky we stick it you know so yeah stripers stripers lot of stripers but they be course they're not a course
34:07
though really you know so we thought who the hell do we know that knows a thing or two about this and there you are so
34:12
there that's why you're here I am a longtime champion of Underdog fish yeah so good choice there but I actually I
34:19
actually have some theories on why you're getting so many emails about that because I've sort of noticed the same
34:24
thing I mean it doesn't hurt that um I've spent a lot of time with video series and even on the podcast I mean I
34:29
have a lot of friends across the US that that is their thing suckers bofin gar um
34:35
and I love all that stuff in fact just this year I made a cut and reti bofin sticker that has sold out three times so
34:42
I mean it's like mind blow like you know awes but uh what I what I think a lot of it has to do with is um I feel like uh
34:49
there's been sort of a renewed interest in Native fish like you guys brought up
34:55
carp and carps certainly qualify they are fish but really they're introduced they're not supposed to be here if you
35:01
want to be technical about that that's an introduced species and I think uh more people are just coming around to
35:06
the idea of of playing around with and sort of uh you know cherishing I guess a
35:12
little bit if you will like native species like gator gar and bofin that have been around and I think it's a good
35:18
thing people are seeing the fun and benefits in these these different fish that 10 20 years ago nobody really cared
35:24
about including me you know like this is relatively a new passion for me I think
35:30
one of the the issues not issues one of the reasons why people should maybe look
35:37
into this a little more first of all they're readily available um some of them and you'll probably be able to give
35:45
us a little more information this some of them are probably the best fighting or sporting fish that that God has ever
35:52
created and yet and yet virtually untouched and of them are very delicious
35:58
for what I've heard we're find that out too you and I don't eat a whole lot of these things we need we need to change
36:05
it up a little right yeah give it a try or but right and is right like for the limited amount of bofin dog fish we call
36:11
them up here that we've caught they are insane they are so much fun they're aggressive they're insane they're strong
36:17
Fighters that's just one of those species right and you mentioned um the gar like we've got longnose gar up here
36:24
we don't have gator gars but but Gars what an incredible sportfish that is and
36:30
yet it's really not not looked upon as as a as as something you want to get your gear together with your buddies and
36:37
go out chasing right yeah and I mean that's just a uh I mean certainly social media and YouTube has I think that's put
36:44
uh these opportunities in front of more people so that's certainly you know helping but uh man I've done it all and
36:50
like gator gar in Texas is is a fish I've said a million times everybody should catch once before they die I mean
36:56
to see a 100 plus pound fish come out of a tiny River and go Airborne is
37:01
fantastic uh the gar you guys have I've not chased them up your way but I fly fished for them in Virginia that's
37:08
extremely challenging it's it's you know it's not an easy thing to do um and and
37:13
the bof fin I mean I'm I'm head over heels for bof Fin and um I I will be the
37:19
first to say you know you get a big bof fin on the line it will put the fight of a big large mouth of equal size to shame
37:26
I mean they are gnarly fish and they will fight you from Hook set until they are in the net and they break your [ __ ]
37:33
too they break if you throw catch one on a spinner bait it's gone throw it in the b in the garbage they are they are extremely tough fish but that's kind of
37:39
one of the things that I love about them um they can be U as complicated or as simple as you want them to be right so
37:47
uh I do both I SP I fly fished for them um I've traveled just to fly fish for
37:52
bof fin actually closer to you guys Lake Champlain um but if you just want to to
37:58
fight that fight man you put a chunk of shrimp or a hot dog out there well that's the easy way you know so you can
38:04
you could sort of do it however you want to do it Joe how about accessibility are are we um talking about a fish that's
38:12
maybe a little difficult to access or are we talking of fish that's living for
38:17
the most part talking right now I'm talking any coarse fish anything that's sort of off the radar for sport Anglers
38:24
is it because they're not accessible or are they just there we ignore them we don't even know they're there maybe I I
38:31
think it's a little bit of both depending on what we're talking about so you know I don't I don't want to get off too far on suckers but I I have uh a
38:38
bunch of friends in the midwest down here who that that's like their first choice they go sucker fishing and i'
38:44
I've gone out there and I've filmed videos for meater on this uh you know red horse some of these things get
38:49
pretty big and they make the argument that you know there are suckers everywhere you know the every river all
38:56
different kinds some of them can get you know in into the teens and pounds some of these giant River red horse and they
39:01
say you know we get to Fish these these streams and rivers that don't have much else in them they're not great
39:07
Smallmouth they're not great trout and you have these beautiful places that are unpressured there's nobody else there
39:13
for miles and we're catching these giant fish uh so suckers would be one that I
39:18
would say uh is super overlooked and extremely accessible there's there's not many people who don't have some kind of
39:24
suckers down the street and they're hard to catch people think that they just will vacuum up anything no there's
39:30
strategy involved in the rigs and everything to catch these fish now the bofin is interesting I'll tell you a
39:36
very quick story if it wasn't for invasive snakeheads uh I would not be as
39:41
torn up with bofin bofin I I think historically lived in a lot more places
39:47
they were a lot more accessible and for a lot of reasons habitat loss and then just frankly in certain places you know
39:53
people catch a bofin they throw it on the bank they have the attitude that that fish is out there killing my large
39:58
mouth and killing my crappie uh it's a very common thing to see you know just dead bof fin thrown up so where I live
40:06
specifically I can find you both in but they're going to be in pockets in other words they're not flush throughout the
40:11
system they have what they need in this little pocket and this little area and I think that's kind of typical that you
40:17
you sort of find uh like strongholds of bofin um you know I live on the the Delaware River and they're all
40:24
tributaries of the Delaware River so on paper they live in the main River I've never seen one in the main river or
40:30
caught one in the main river you have to sort of seek out these little backwaters and things but um what I what I love
40:36
about Snakehead why I was frankly kind of excited that they showed up was cuz it gave me a reason to go fish these
40:44
areas that my whole life I've never fished before why am I going to go muck around in a swamp that's inches deep and
40:50
get you know covered in leeches and and briers and all this stuff uh you know and now there's snakeheads in that
40:56
habitat I and the byproduct of going there was going holy [ __ ] that's a bofin
41:02
so I had bofin living right under my nose my entire life very close to home
41:08
and it took an invasive species to put me where they live my dad and I weren't fish in these these places there's
41:15
there's not much else there so it it took an invasive to open my eyes to
41:20
interesting this D is that is that those areas void of large mouth let's say is
41:25
usually they're too shallow too swamp be too ugly or or I I I wouldn't I wouldn't say they're they're void of large mouth
41:32
but um you know they're they're not quite as attractive to the big ones you'd be hard pressed in a lot of them
41:37
to find a four five pounder you know um in maybe there's better Largemouth water
41:43
connected nearby but in in a lot of the areas where you're finding the bof fin and the snake head you know there'll be
41:48
some carp mucking around there'll be bullheads little bass but um most of these places for like a you know a
41:56
bobber and a shiner angler or worm dunker they're they're not that appealing it's swampy muddy shallow
42:02
water you know right and and that is a course fish right that would be considered a coarse fish the bin would
42:08
that be I I believe so is there a definition by the way is there is there what is it coarse fish well so coarse
42:16
fish and and um I I if if you guys ever want to take a deeper dive on this I have a terrific guess for you but I'll
42:22
do my best here so coarse fish and rough fish we they're also called rough fish down here
42:27
uh kind of similar and buddy of mine Tyler winter he he uh he he started this whole native fish organization um in in
42:35
Minnesota and one of the things that they were fighting very hard to do was get species like the big mouth uh big
42:42
mouth Buffalo sucker delisted as a rough fish in in uh State Game Regulations
42:49
because as a rough fish you're wide open to shoot them with arrows and things and
42:54
people they look like a carp so people naturally lump them in with carp but they're not they're this native fish
43:01
that can live an incredibly long time these Fish can be 50 60 years old so um
43:06
certain circles from a conservation standpoint are trying very hard to sort
43:12
of um change the rules on what is a coarse fish what is a rough fish it's
43:18
not fair to call a bofin a rough fish they're native they were here before everything else we love yet they have
43:24
pretty much no protection anywhere you know so um that fight is definitely
43:30
coming around yeah that's that the Buffalo you go back to the Buffalo you said a buffalo sucker is that the same as we think is a buffalo carp around
43:37
here like they're they're a lot thicker they're well they get big here and they get Giants in Texas is that the same fish yes it is okay wow well actually I
43:45
shouldn't I should again I don't want to speak out of out of school um this is the big mouth Buffalo and I'm not super
43:51
familiar with their their broad range I know in the Midwest in Minnesota but I mean they can get
43:57
and to just glance at him you'd say that's some carp species it's actually not sucker suer that's the one we caught
44:04
one one time River we had a a bunch of uh journalists here from uh the UK a
44:10
carp uh world class carp Anglers MH and we were kind of giving them the tour of
44:16
our carp fishery up here and on the Niagara River we were catching carp for them and
44:23
they were catching carp and filming them and all that stuff and then this one guy caught this we thought was a big just an
44:30
off-colored carp it a gray carp a little more on the gray side but this magnificent carp that we thought was a
44:37
common carp and they're like all like super jonesed up about it they were all
44:43
excited we okay it's a nice car but let's be honest and that's where we discovered this thing called buffalo Big
44:49
Mouth Buffalo yeah we never knew we never knew it even existed that would put them in Lake Ontario and I can't say
44:56
that I've I've heard of them living there but I I can't say they don't either like I said I'm I'm not super familiar uh I'm actually headed up that
45:02
way in a couple weeks very excited I love to to Leon in New York to fish the
45:07
Niagara in in uh early December so you know praying for the weather and the wind to cooperate and all that stuff but
45:14
yeah I but I I wouldn't be surprised if they're in there I'm just not the expert on on the Range but so they're not a
45:20
carp is what you're saying Buffalo are not a carp they're a sucker and and for people listening they
45:26
look just like said we thought it was a carp we thought it was a carp species after they call it a big mouth Buffalo
45:31
we still thought Buffalo carp is what we thought you know what I mean not a soccer so because they're shaped the suckers that we know are long and skinny
45:38
like most people the common sucker the white sucker whatever you want to call them carp or thick and these buffalo
45:44
fish they get thick but they do have a flat no belly compared to the regular common carb right so they have a bit of
45:49
different shape to them it's just a the look is so similar the scale pattern is is similar it's the colors and a little
45:55
bit of shape difference so point now let's just for I don't want to dwell on
46:00
this but you just opened my mind up to something so that is a native fish uhhuh
46:06
that's always been here yes right it is it is the angling technique
46:15
to catch it totally different than carp fishing and I asked that for a reason because that's probably why we don't see
46:21
them because nobody even knows they exist and if it's a different uh technique that you're using or even for
46:27
that matter then obviously that's why we're not catching them but maybe you can open that door for us cuz that would be a great sportfish yeah and and again
46:35
full transparency I have not caught them and I personally have not really spent any time targeting them but I have some
46:40
buddies that have and um you know if if you watch those fish so they're they're
46:46
they have sort of a cult following in the fly world in the Midwest and one of the best ways to get them is is uh when
46:52
like seed pods and bugs and things get blown into back Eddies on the Mississippi River and stuff like that uh
46:59
you'll see them come up and they'll surface feed and uh i' I've had some buddies go try it and they hook five and
47:05
then I have I've had other Buddies go that uh you know they'll be coming down the line and eating this seed and eating
47:10
this seed in this bug and get right to your fly and duck under it and come up on the other side and keep going they're not dumb fish um another friend of mine
47:18
Tyler winter who I just mentioned he he does it with a giant cane pole and shoots his worms full of air so they
47:24
float the right way they don't just suck corn off the bottom like a common that's why we're not catching them that's
47:31
exactly why that that's a whole new fishery man that's exciting that would be fun because they're strong they're
47:37
just strong as as every as any other carp or anything like that they're big and strong they got that big broad tail
47:43
they're they're yeah they're a fighter too so we should put that on our list to do next year we should try and find the
47:49
buffalo fish by the way we're heading into our 40th year of broadcast if you
47:54
could leave it uh the congrats guys yeah the 2026 broadcast season will be our
48:03
40th year on air so next year meaning 25 we'll be embarking on our fieldwork for
48:11
the 40th anniversary we may add that fish we have we have to catch a 40 pound of something well we'll either catch a
48:17
40 pounder and if we don't we'll drink a 40 pounder well there's a combination either way there you go no no better way
48:24
to celebrate that Milestone than than going than just being frustrated by giant suckers for a few days giant it's
48:31
not an easy thing man no kidding you mentioned snakehe head I'm
48:36
kind of curious about that one too um of course it's an invasive species here it it's taboo uh I I don't
48:45
I don't believe they're here yet and I say yet only because give it time they're coming but that's a that's a
48:52
crazy fish is it not yeah um you know and and I've taken my lumps over the
48:57
years and I've what I've never said was that I um you know they should be here cuz they should not they're an invasive
49:04
species they should not but you know without giving the whole history of the fish I will say that after so many years
49:10
uh science and everybody else figures out that you can put arrows through as many as you want you can put as many
49:15
Kill mandates out there as you want they're here they're rooted they're expanding they're not going away so I
49:21
just took the approach of like well rather than you know complain on the internet about them you know go try to
49:27
catch one I mean they are predominantly a top water eater right I mean at least that's the fun
49:33
stuff they're frog eaters they like I said they they they give you a reason to go explore different kinds of water and
49:39
pieces of water that you may have never messed with before they are incredibly strong uh but similar to like a Musky
49:45
right I've always thought that uh it's not that you don't fish for musky for the fight you fish him for the first hit
49:51
cuz musky guys right once you connect him you're just trying to get him in the net as fast as possible you're not letting
49:58
true like game on get it in Angela I'm not going to say it's not fun right cuz
50:03
muskies are awesome but I just always kind of got to chuckle at that you work so hard to stick this fish and it's just
50:08
like I need this done in 5 seconds very similar with snake heads the hit is
50:14
amazing and when you stick them they go ballistic but then it's just because those hooks come out of that hard mouth
50:20
so easily you're just muscling them to the net but um yeah I can honestly tell you guys like in the summertime the dog
50:27
days here ah that is what I'm doing locally 95% of the time like I am just
50:33
torn up with snakehe heads um and they are in fact you know expanding to to your you say you don't have them there
50:39
yet I remember a dozen years ago well they won't get any further north than this cuz they can't take the cold they
50:46
can and they've proven that they have they're an extremely resilient fish so you're from New Jersey right correct
50:52
which is not very far south there your Winters are your lak ice over Etc right I'm assuming uh I haven't seen ice on
50:58
our I mean skim ice maybe for a week or so uh okay we there hasn't been ice where I live that you could walk on in
51:05
probably 10 years it is becoming the the Carolina's here boys like our winners are just getting less and less winnery
51:11
you know so okay yeah we're we're not far behind I mean we still get obviously ice but uh not that far if you if if you
51:19
want a recommendation for somewhere to go though that's closer to you guys one of the coolest things I ever did was fish bof in uh on Lake Champlain which
51:26
has an incredible population and they are huge and a buddy of mine Drew price specializes in fly fishing for them they
51:32
are sight fishing up on the the in the shallow water there thrilling and he
51:38
actually has a nice little Guide Service Catering to people who want The Underdogs he does Carp gar bofin
51:45
freshwater drum uh and a lot of it on fly so even that you see that business
51:50
up ticking just a little bit people willing to go on vacation and travel to catch bof fin I love
51:57
I love the whole Underdog concept because when you call them you know Co
52:02
fish or you know the connotation there is that it's a garbage fish but the
52:07
underdog I think is every of every species Joe has mentioned to the people listening we've caught them all and I
52:14
would say suckers might be the mellowest and they're still a strong Fighter the rest of them are absolutely nuts when it
52:20
comes to the fight no matter what like a a carp might not jump but I'm telling you what he's going to pull like you've
52:26
never had your line pulled before in your life and these bofin and gar those are just ridiculous they're so much fun
52:31
how about drum drum I'm they're the like you put a six PB drum against a six PB small Mo and that small MO is going to
52:36
get pulled his ass all over the place because that drum going beat him true you know what I mean I've caught some drum you know just touching the teens in
52:43
the Niagara River and they are incredible and then uh I ironically uh I
52:48
didn't get one this summer but two summers ago it's um out on the river here in August fishing a jerk bait
52:54
nothing's happening I just kind of have it pause sitting out there and get slammed and I catch a freshwater drum here and nobody seems to be able to tell
53:00
us where they came from because we're on the wrong side of the Appalachians for that to be part of their natural range
53:06
which is a bit scary because okay neat that's a freshwater drum where nobody's ever caught one before but why why you
53:14
know why are they here but but as I say all the time we we're constantly it seems over the last oh decade certainly
53:21
The Last 5 Years more so than than ever we we're hearing about oh we've got
53:27
an inv a new invasive species you know large mouth was caught in New Brunswick and uh oh they've got now they've got
53:33
small mouth in Nova Scotia and all that and and they all just make the
53:39
assumption that somehow somebody just put them there they just appeared when in fact in most cases and and that drum
53:45
you just alluded to in most most cases it's because nobody's ever targeted them before and they they you don't catch
53:52
them in the traditional uh methods that we're used to fish fishing in those Waters and then all of a sudden Somebody
53:59
by accident gets a large mouth in in New Brunswick and and the whole world is
54:05
falling in right because oh my God how did they get here well they've probably been there forever or at least for a lot
54:10
longer than we think they have well we see that a lot with the snakeheads every time they they crop up somewhere new
54:16
everybody cries bucket biology right and and no doubt bucket biology is how they got here that's that's a known that's
54:21
how it all started but you know we we vilify those fish and if you really step
54:26
back and think about it like what a mar a miracle of science like you want to talk about a resilient fish all that
54:32
fish is trying to do is survive right and it's it is adapting and it is moving and people it pops up here and they go
54:39
well no way they got from here to there by swimming through here but that's all
54:45
they're trying to do is survive and they are incredible survivors you know hey
54:51
before we go on I want to go back to sheephead to drum freshwater drum if you're interested we got a pattern for
54:57
you an October pattern we'll get you a 20 pounder for sure if not bigger hey let's do that let's I you know I uh I am
55:04
I am overdue I I want to come up and fish with you guys and see that's me I'll come I'll come all the way up there in October just to catch a big
55:11
drum another underd let's do it okay I love people listening are saying you guys out of your mind he's coming up
55:17
from Jersey but I am out of my mind I have no problem if I can drive seven hours for a
55:23
bow fin I'll go even further for a drum you know all good we perfect so one of the other things about the underdog fish
55:31
and why they maybe are underutilized I think is the fact that uh most of our
55:38
sportfish at some point in their lives were sitting on a dining room table
55:44
ready to feed the family right so so there's the edibility factor and I think
55:49
there's an automatic assumption that coarse fish rough fish that's why we've got to rename them underdog
55:56
are not edible but you've sampled some of these fish I have yeah although um
56:03
sadly the ones that we're talking about the most here I have not so like i' I I know uh in the South like gar Gar balls
56:10
deep for like that's a big thing I I've not had them yet I'd love to try them but I haven't had them uh Snak heads are
56:16
delicious I mean they are they are one of the best eating freshwater fish that i' I've ever had I kid you guys not and
56:22
you you're Canadian I'll take a deep fried piece of snake over walleye because it eats more like a saltwater
56:29
fish much firmer very different thing now um how about how about bofin so
56:35
bofin are actually weird and if you if you if you sort of talk to chefs and people on The Culinary side you get
56:42
mixed things so one of the known things about bofin is that they soon as they're
56:48
dead they get extremely mushy which is ironic cuz you catch these things that are just like a mass of rock hard muscle
56:55
yeah uh so so if you watch the guys in the south Louisiana and stuff uh they call them shoe pick down there and and
57:01
they I that crowd I think eats more of them than anybody else the trick is you have to keep that sucker alive until you
57:08
got the oil hot and then I've heard if you if you take care of it properly and and are quick on it it's very much like
57:15
catfish you know just just just as good as as as anything else I've not had it but if you watch on YouTube You'll see a
57:22
lot of guys trying like doing their catch and cook like well I've never eaten one of these before let's give it a shot they they can be very tough to
57:28
clean they get mushy very fast and a lot of people are unimpressed but the Southern Boys will tell you if you do it
57:33
right and you keep that thing alive in a cooler till it's like time to hit the grease they can be very good but that's
57:39
one I've not eaten yet I've eaten invasive silver carp uh which was very good but not bow fit not yet I was told
57:46
and you know the story years ago um somebody approached me from one of our
57:53
uh indigenous communities in the area and um we started talking about
57:58
consumption of various species and this guy told me at the time that
58:05
bofan if done properly to to the comment you just made he Compares them to
58:11
scallop eating scallops maybe the mushiness you're talking about has has something to do with that but he said
58:18
the back end of a bofan they actually Stamp Out areas of that meaty part and
58:25
it's like scallops uh yeah I've not heard that comparison before but having
58:30
not eaten it I can't confirm or deny that that could also be a cold water thing uh one thing I am interested in
58:36
although it's very hard to find somebody dialed into it um and I wonder if you guys have even seen this like have you ever caught both in through the ice it
58:42
it does happen but it's a very hard thing to pattern apparently yeah we hear about it and mostly sedal catches not
58:48
very often though do know you know I've never done it but I'm always like the deep water stuff for bouret and stuff
58:55
which yeah and I think BB's another one that's completely unregulated right now
59:00
totally which is insane for speaking of scallop firm meat yeah yeah yeah I've
59:05
never just not very often you hear a bofin through the ice like the bay quin's got tons of bofin in it I've
59:11
heard of incidental catches but not not targeted for sure but then again I don't I don't know of anybody who targets both
59:17
and I mean we always catch them when we're large M bass fishing and their incidental catches and they scare the
59:22
hell out of you you know you're in 2 ft of water cover with pad you're dunking
59:28
uh for large mouth and all of a sudden this this 8 lb monster is on your line and you're freaking out and they're as
59:34
Brave as a Musky they don't care about your boat they do not care about your boat No in fact I'll I'll give you this
59:41
is and I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it with my own eyes uh my buddy Drew price the guide on Champlain that I
59:47
mentioned he has this method he developed called Splash bang and he'll go out in the middle of this this giant
59:52
weed field or along these Reed edges you know trying to sight cast for these fish and he'll just start slapping the hell
59:59
out of a out of the water with his paddle and making all kinds of noise and he is convinced that they are so smart
1:00:05
and so inquisitive by comparison to other game fish that they will come investigate that and I'm like no they
1:00:11
won't but damn if they didn't you witnessed it I I witnessed it
1:00:17
yeah that is so awesome I'm not saying it works every time but like when the going gets tougher you're not seeing
1:00:22
what you want to see occasionally he will just start slapping the water and banging in the water with ores and things and he's like these are some of
1:00:28
the smartest like they're they investigate like said they're not afraid of the boat you can do it with your Rod
1:00:35
tip too you know you can what what's a good tactic for someone what is your favorite way to catch both in you got to
1:00:41
have a a method or something like that I mean my preferred way is with a hollow body frog but you have to have exactly
1:00:47
the right scenario for that and what I've what I've found um is that in the summertime here in super shallow water
1:00:54
they will actually eat dragon flies so they'll cruise around and they'll wait for a dragon fly to land and one of the
1:01:00
easiest ways to get them on a frog is when they're doing that you cast the frog out there and barely move it and actually what I think is it's just the
1:01:07
uh the rubber skirt hanging just below the surface I actually think they often think it's a dragonfly and they'll Smash
1:01:13
It and you got to be quick and you got to set hard and rip them out of the water and it's a shower of duckweed in
1:01:18
the air and it's amazing but if if anybody listening has them close close
1:01:23
to home and has never messed with them before uh um they are incredible uh
1:01:28
scent feeders right so it's you can make it very complex by
1:01:33
trying to throw all these lures and flies which is cool and very glorious but I mean a piece of shrimp um if it's
1:01:39
legal like here in where where I live you can use bluegill as bait so I mean a chunk of bluegill wow uh I've used
1:01:46
tilapia from the from the grocery store um even even hot dogs will work and they
1:01:53
uh they're incredible scent feeders and they will find that you know you want a heavier gauge hook I'll use 40 lb test
1:02:00
um but that's the that's the easiest way if you know they live here and you just want one MH get a lawn chair and a stiff
1:02:08
catfish rod and just get after it on the bottom or under a floater does it matter I either I've done I've done it both
1:02:14
ways if it's shallow enough I'll let it sit on the bottom hang one under a float put one on the bottom and kick back and
1:02:20
uh you you that's that's the most that's the fastest and most effective way to do it wow I bet you in the B that could
1:02:27
open up a whole new oh man we could fun we could have maybe maybe we should just
1:02:33
do Underdog fish next year 40th Year we're 40th year we'll do nothing but
1:02:39
underdogs how's that Pete Pete I'm I'm curious you talked about him hitting spinner baits have you ever seen one
1:02:45
come from a distance like Chase it down to eat it or is it like a surprise bite when it happens most of the time that's
1:02:51
a great question mine has always been surprised I've never seen them chase I've seen them
1:02:56
I've seen them sit still and you drop a jig or whatever like that and just hold it and then all of a sudden he'll wait
1:03:02
and then just all of a sudden crack it hard but I don't know if I've ever seen them chase or not I I bring that up because that's just been an observation
1:03:09
of mine like uh even though they are Fierce predators no doubt I've never seen a bofin um like come from five or
1:03:17
10 feet away no to eat my frog or a spinner bait or a fly or any of that to
1:03:23
your point uh and I don't know if it's that they don't have as good of eyesight as they do smell I'm really not sure
1:03:30
but if you want to catch one on an artificial of any kind you kind of got to bounce it right off their nose so I
1:03:37
think the the incidental is you know you're out there throwing a spinner bait for bass and it just came right across
1:03:43
his face right here and Wham he'll snap it uh so that's part of the challenge with artificial and why sight fishing
1:03:49
them is so much fun because that's what you're doing you are really trying to put that fluke or fly or whatever right
1:03:56
off his nose and he just just it's crazy you know what used to be full of them I don't know what it still is not mscot
1:04:02
Bay oh I'll bet it still like the the sagin creek before that is is used to
1:04:09
every third or fourth flipping fish yeah was a bowan wow yeah every maybe every
1:04:17
fifth but you know large month large mon large then boom scare the hell out of you cuz you just you just caught you
1:04:23
know two or three three pounders all you got the mother on and it ain't
1:04:29
that and then that that thick five Hook is all of a sudden bent thow The Jig out
1:04:34
cu this guy just damaged your jig to Joe's point on a flipping jig which obviously was presented right on top
1:04:41
right on his nose yeah and and and whether you're bait fishing or fly fishing or throwing LS doesn't matter
1:04:47
like strong hooks are an absolute must like salt grade hooks are an absolute must um because the biggest you've ever
1:04:54
caught both uh I want to say 13
1:04:59
lbs that's a big that's a biggie I know that we tried to go to uh there's an
1:05:05
area north of Kingston here Cranberry Lake Dog Lake and that and there's a kid that that had that at the marina and he
1:05:11
was always going for the Ontario or world record and he was getting them in the teens I know that every spring for
1:05:17
sure he was getting them in the teens but I'm going to give you a scenario that I found a couple years ago on bofin
1:05:23
we have a an extended uh bass season now we can fish them into the spring in certain areas we went into one of these
1:05:28
back Bays that is notoriously good for bass but it was too early the water was
1:05:33
cold and this Bay was loaded with bofin in the spring like loaded I mean I've
1:05:39
never seen so many bofin in my life and a lot of them were laying right in the mud just in because we're talking about
1:05:45
water temps in in the 40s probably you know what I mean in that situation we threw our our jigs at them and all that
1:05:52
and if if you got close to them you had nothing you said you hit them on the head we hit them on the head and they
1:05:58
boom they spook off so I'm wondering if and I always said I wonder if those fish would hit a minnow or you know a live
1:06:03
bait under a float right in front of their nose or something you ever encountered something yeah just right in front of them yeah have you ever
1:06:09
encountered that in the cold water like that yeah I mean I I I've seen that um
1:06:15
it can go either way right so if you're sight fishing bow fin you're either going to put whatever you got right in
1:06:21
front of him and he is just going to zap it or they're going to Spook I mean there's there's guarantee either way
1:06:26
that sounds to me like those fish were already starting to slide into where they were going to spawn they're spring spawners and uh man catching one here so
1:06:34
here it would be April and May when they're in their spawning colors and it it literally looks like somebody took a green highlighter and painted the inside
1:06:40
of their mouth all their fins it's wild it's it's some of the wildest stuff but that just sounds to me like they had
1:06:47
gotten there and they it was just still a little too cold for them to be active
1:06:52
I think that's probably all that was obviously the same areas as large mood
1:06:58
so they're in before them so is it a temperature thing is there a preferred temperature for sparking that spawning
1:07:05
activity I I'm sure there is Angelo and I I I I can't say I know that number
1:07:11
anecdotally here um like I'll start catching them uh there's a correlation
1:07:16
like as soon as I hear reports of American Shad getting caught in the river I'm pretty confident I can go
1:07:22
start catching B fin so that's going to be late March into early April and the magic number for Shad to bite is 50° all
1:07:29
good things start at at 50° so true that is so true should Target we should Target a both I'll take you to that
1:07:36
freaking place you'll it'll blow your mind how we went to Cranberry uh years ago didn't do wello Breeze Marina yeah I
1:07:42
know you got one or two of them remember that one you got it just was a great fish it was a great sequence we just thought we got to get more of these cuz
1:07:48
it was and it never happened it didn't happen for us we got go back and check that but even even here despite the lack of icing up I've you know just been
1:07:55
bored in early February or whatever and I'm like I'm going to buy some shrimp and go like the they had to still be out there somewhere for sakes right you know
1:08:02
I mean till that water hits 50 degrees I don't get touched isn't that crazy
1:08:07
interesting uh last time we had you on the show you were uh also at the time
1:08:12
hunting down all kinds of stripers uh in the Northeast how's that coming along for you well um I'm getting text
1:08:20
messages from all my friends right now as we talk about the Mayhem off of our Coast it is prime time here fully uh
1:08:26
Surf Boat the whole uh the whole deal I'm actually headed out in a couple days uh after after uh we record here so peak
1:08:34
time um it's been all out Mayhem it's been a little windy like the the nice days to get there have been fewer um
1:08:42
maybe than last year I don't know about you guys it's been like it's been 80 degre it's 80 degrees here in November
1:08:47
last week it's been nuts yeah nice for you but it's it's it's making some Wicked wins so um the deer hunters don't
1:08:54
like it either dear Hunters here they hate it man it's not doing them any good at all so does it doesn't feel right
1:09:00
like I'm not supposed to be on in a t-shirt on the beach in uh in November but yeah we are we are full bore
1:09:06
migration right now this is the time of year when um New Jersey in particular tends to see everybody's stripers all
1:09:13
the northern ones are down mixing here and uh yeah and it's it's it's very good
1:09:20
question for you on those days that you can't get a boat out is it still surf castable you still fish from Shore
1:09:27
sometimes it's actually better right so the way that we set up especially if you have a hard West Wind here so you got
1:09:32
land knocking that wind down as it blows over the ocean so if you're in a boat
1:09:37
yeah you can hug the beach and it'll be almost flat calm even if it's blowing 30 m an hour right but if those fish are a
1:09:43
mile or two off you're going to get the crap beat out of you going out there after them but those flat conditions um
1:09:50
bunker manh Haden they actually tend to swim into the wind so you have a West
1:09:56
coming over your back on the beach the bunker will swim into it and those hard West Wind days actually often put more
1:10:03
bait and fish within the surf Caster's range huh yeah it's funny cuz even surf casting it's all dependent on food right
1:10:09
bait right they have to forge on something and if has to be food there yeah yeah it's like anything else uh Joe
1:10:16
tell folks what what you've been doing I mean I aside from obviously you've
1:10:22
you've done some incredible Productions uh meat eaters notwithstanding you've done some good work with them uh what
1:10:28
else do you do how I mean you're you're chasing fish all the time but are there any projects that we should be privy to
1:10:35
that the audience can tune in to you and check you out according to my Instagram account I'm chasing fish all the time
1:10:41
the sad reality is I'm sitting in front of this computer most of the time but that's you know you got to maintain
1:10:46
perceptions you know what I'm saying you got to keep it honest so uh but but yeah cut and reai that's my baby that's uh
1:10:52
every Friday morning a new episode of cut and reti launches and um just think what makes that I mean we it is a
1:10:58
fishing podcast but I I don't know I consider myself more of an Entertainer than a teacher you know so we just have
1:11:03
a good time got a wide range of people there um still writing a ton for Field and Stream outdoor life Anglers journal
1:11:10
and then um over the summer I actually launched a second bi-weekly podcast uh
1:11:16
on it's on outdoor life's Network it's called quick strike and the way that I pitched it you know when I when I worked
1:11:21
full-time for magazines I was always in charge of the fishing section and that meant putting together a lot of these
1:11:27
short quick hitter how-to pieces so instead of this elaborate feature it's just like um you know uh five reasons
1:11:36
why you should use this lore or you know the three most overlooked Largemouth LS out there right
1:11:43
now just very uh quick hitter to the point uh pieces and I pitched that in
1:11:49
podcast for I said you know we're going to keep this a half hour very short every other week with with really good people um and we've done them on like uh
1:11:57
how to catch tuna on a party boat if you've never done that before here's what to expect here's what you need to know uh you know um retro bass LS that
1:12:05
are still out there that have fallen out of popular favor and why you should still fish them is the fall feedbag for
1:12:10
trout a myth so it's just a a quick hitter topic and I'm having a lot of fun with it so I'm actually juggling two
1:12:15
podcasts right now um okay that's busy you just answered my next question which
1:12:21
which was obviously you're on target for that we're noticing now just we mentioned earlier on this is our 40th
1:12:27
broadcast season that we're about to Embark and so we've been around probably a lot longer than we should have during
1:12:34
that time we've gone through several generations of of uh audience members
1:12:40
right we we're working with three distinct generations of audience members right now we're constantly asking
1:12:48
ourselves how to not drop the ball on any of those Generations when we
1:12:54
communicate deliver our messages it sounds like you're on top of that because that that new bi-weekly product
1:13:01
you're putting out almost feels to me like you're you you know that there's a little younger audience out there that's
1:13:08
that's yearning for information and a reason to go out fishing and I think
1:13:13
you're addressing that and I wanted to ask you are you constantly trying to
1:13:19
evolve knowing that your audience is as you're getting older your audience is
1:13:24
getting younger and and and how are you speaking to that well you know I I got to tell you I I'm
1:13:31
not really certain that that's true so like something like quick strike um you know I understand the need for um how to
1:13:39
people want to learn they want to learn specific things I've just always taken slight issue with some of these podcasts
1:13:45
that spend two hours talking about the wacky rig like there's only so much to say about that you know what I mean so I
1:13:50
I I've learned that as a as as a magazine editor you know the the joke is if I had more time I'd make it shorter
1:13:57
your job is to always do it in as little words as you possibly can and and get the point across I would imagine that
1:14:04
that content certainly has some appeal to upand cominging younger Anglers but
1:14:09
if you look at cut and reai if you look at my audience U the bulk of them are my age and I actually very much love that
1:14:17
because what I see is when I started the hook shots video series I was in my 20s no kids not married yet and so were my
1:14:24
fans and I almost feel like I have grown like my my my fan base my audience has grown
1:14:30
up with me now they're all my age and they got a couple of little kids and they're not fishing as much as they used
1:14:35
to which is me and I talk about that all the time uh because frankly I I see some
1:14:41
of this stuff on YouTube that like the 21 and 22y old next kids are making
1:14:47
dudes I don't I don't get a lot of it like it just I I like I don't I don't know what the hell you want actually
1:14:54
like I was watching One the other day and all this kid does is knock on doors ask permission for private ponds catch
1:14:59
these giant bass he's got billions of followers sometimes he doesn't get permission and does it anyway and then
1:15:05
the video becomes him getting kicked out for trespassing and I'm just like I don't W
1:15:10
what an if if this is what you're into I don't know how to talk to you
1:15:16
guys you know what I mean like I'm just I you know so I I I hope there's something there for the next generation
1:15:21
and don't misunderstand I get I get plenty of feedback and messages from from kids that young who who like what I
1:15:27
do and follow me but um you know if you look at the the new generation coming up behind us like the new new ones I I mean
1:15:34
it's just like loud fast and and that's the whole shtick like knocking on doors and filming people and it's like well
1:15:40
yeah dude if you got a a private pond on this dude's farm that nobody fishes how
1:15:46
hard is it to catch 7 pound large mouth you know what I mean so I don't know a lot of it I don't identify with anymore
1:15:52
I I think the argument could be made that we even our generation of Anglers sometimes did that as well right you and
1:15:58
I don't want to drop names but let's be honest about it our good friend uh uh
1:16:03
Bill Dance did much similar right sure sure it's really no different there's no different but but Bill made a career out
1:16:10
of it and God bless him um still making a career making a career I watched him the other day yeah no and and and Bill
1:16:17
is a legend I mean and that was very smart if you look at what he did in that generation what do people want to see
1:16:23
the fish getting caught he had perm and things to that happen I think for me
1:16:28
even when I was much younger doing hook shots as a magazine guy and as a writer first and foremost what always mattered
1:16:35
to me was the story tell me a story it could be a bad story where we didn't catch anything but like tell me an
1:16:40
entire story and I think that uh with attention spans and the way social media
1:16:46
is now the the the younger generation doesn't want or appreciate that so all this kind of I just sort of look at this
1:16:52
like man if you put more effort into what you're doing and like crafted a story around this this could be really good but instead it's just like throw it
1:16:59
up more more more throw it up do it again same thing over and over again and you get tired don't you you get tired of
1:17:05
c i I do and I I don't really know how to identify with it I don't know what of
1:17:10
my content because most of my stuff I don't think you have the attention span to listen to the podcast for 10 full minutes you know so I am very
1:17:18
comfortable and very happy with a with a fan base that has grown up with me I like that you know it's it's that's very
1:17:24
reward in to me yep I I I keep looking down at my notes and I keep looking at
1:17:30
this and I'm saying that's got to be a misprint there's no way I'm going to make a fool of myself May in New
1:17:37
Jersey wait what say that again uh Dean help me with us you wrote this stuff my
1:17:42
in New Jersey my in New Jersey mahi mahi yeah mahim Mahi absolutely in
1:17:50
New Jersey tons of mahi mahi there's mahim Mahi all the way up to Mass Massachusetts absolutely people don't
1:17:56
know that yeah so mahi mahi um I'm sure you guys have seen the video and your
1:18:02
listeners have seen at some point the Florida deal where there's a mile of floating sargassum weed down there and
1:18:08
all kinds of little Bait fish and that's where you target your Mahi they love floating structure uh we don't have that
1:18:13
here but man we got miles and miles and miles of lobster pots off of our coast
1:18:19
and the high flyer at the top of the Trap floating on the surface with the poly ball is enough so in the summer
1:18:25
when warm water comes up from the golf stream you just go from high flyer to high flyer to high flyer to high flyer
1:18:31
and you cast no trolling now oh my God I want to do that these are those bright colorful beautiful fish that we call
1:18:38
dolphin that's really a dolphin yeah dolphin fish mahim Mahi Dorado um in
1:18:43
Southern California on the west coast they call them Dorado all the same thing yeah no kidding man that's like our
1:18:49
that's like we do the small M we find the boys at the sailboat boys
1:18:54
I'll tell you if you guys are doing your road trip right like please let me help you with that one because you could
1:19:01
bring your bass tackle you could bring your Smallmouth box and catch 40-inch mahes with I mean that's the whole fun
1:19:08
of it is you can chase them right you're not trolling you're just hopping so that's the whole game I go down there
1:19:14
with stuff I use for largemouth bass when is that when when's the window what's the window Late July through
1:19:20
mid-september it'll go into October but once you get into September you guys understand understand like your Windows
1:19:25
start getting a little smaller with the transition but yeah August and early September and sometimes this happens 12
1:19:31
miles out sometimes you run 30 Mi sometimes they're close if we get the blue water moving in they're they're 12 mil off the beach wow that's crazy how
1:19:40
cool would that be and they're great eating obviously for folks listening to this yeah not only are they great eating
1:19:46
but they're one of the fastest growing fish in the ocean so you can fill the box and not feel guilty I
1:19:52
mean it's it's one of the most sustainable fish on the entire planet because they spawn so frequently and
1:19:58
grow so quick like the world record dolphin I want to say was 87 lbs and I think they said that was 5 years old and
1:20:06
that's like that's like a year older than it should have been like four years is the lifespan so if you if you want a
1:20:12
meat trip yeah Mahi you can you can load the box with Mahi and not feel guilty about it how far north will they
1:20:18
roam uh I mean I know guys that catch him off of Cape Cod very frequently now that's mostly in the canyon water the
1:20:24
Blue Water same thing in the in the summertime but yeah it's it's not uncommon to catch them in the canyons off Cape Cod further north than that I'm
1:20:31
not sure but Cape Cod definitely they're there that's insane eh Mark her down buddy Mark her down Cod Jo Joe mahi mahi
1:20:41
uh just before we let you go Joe what's uh would give folks an idea of where they can get a hold of you and how they can contact you how they can follow you
1:20:47
how they can be with you sure and it's uh just you know so people know a big
1:20:53
part of what I do and what I believe in is is communicating so you you reach out to me you will hear back you know I love building Community around what I do so
1:20:59
cut and reai is on pretty much every podcast platform that exists uh so whichever one you like and that drops
1:21:05
every Friday morning at 5:00 a.m. eastern um I'm Joe surelly 138 on Instagram you can follow me there or uh
1:21:12
cut and reai gmail.com if you want to shoot me an email sounds fantastic my friend and uh we must make it happen
1:21:21
this coming season all right let's do it enough for the pring let's let's I would love to take you guys Mahi fishing and
1:21:28
and that time of year we can do mahi and snakeheads in the same trip and then we'll sit in my studio and record and then we come up and do uh sheep head up
1:21:34
here but'll do drum up here absolutely AB we'll just we'll just move in together for an entire season and travel
1:21:40
as a pack sounds like travel as a pack and we'll build for underdogs 100% all right brother thank
1:21:47
you very much you take care of yourself anytime guys thank you see Jo all right it's a date mark it down it's got to
1:21:53
happen this year buddy come on Jo you and me we're we're the worst at that we
1:21:59
got to do it we got to do it we got to do it and then we forget about it that's the problem we' getting to be our age right you got that right mister anyways
1:22:06
uh wonderful gentleman as you could tell uh very enthusiastic angler uh Great
1:22:12
Communicator that's why he's been working for just about every major brand in the fishing industry as far as
1:22:18
magazine obviously and he knows his uh his coarse fish too obviously much better than we do he's giv an open our
1:22:24
eyes up quite nicely here so there's a whole new future for us you know oh yeah we're coar old guys now anyways right
1:22:31
underdogs they always talked about my language being coar all whole TV series underdogs hey could I swear if it's
1:22:37
coarse fish could I swear in the show too course language maybe I don't know we'll have to run it by the producers
1:22:42
and see what they say wow could could the real Peete Bowman come out for that series oh yeah that' be fun uh his name
1:22:49
is Joel Shelli and uh check him out you will not be disappointed if you haven't
1:22:55
already done so I want to remind folks about the wonderful contest that's ongoing as we speak J&B cycle and Marine
1:23:03
is giving away a Mercury 9.9 outboard motor four stroke uh with all the toys
1:23:09
and bells and whistles that come with those wonderful products yeah baby that's not until Christmas that uh that
1:23:14
contest uh made available once again J&B cycle and Marine Ontario's largest
1:23:20
Princecraft and Mercury dealer I did not know that Princecraft Mercury the combo
1:23:25
uh dealer in the province of Ontario uh you can uh go up there one stores in
1:23:31
Timmons there's one in Sudbury but you can go online and check all this wonderful stuff out uh complete upward
1:23:37
motor packages boat motor trailer for Anglers for uh family for you name it if
1:23:44
you need a boat motor and trailer jnb cyclea Marine is your destination
1:23:50
without question website is the website is JB cycle.com without the end that I always screw on
1:23:57
that's okay uh keep an eye on fishing.com if you're not entered in the contest by all means get there and we
1:24:03
will be giving you a special right now opportunity to get a leg
1:24:09
up on the competition to win that 9.9 by getting 10
1:24:16
free quick down and dirty entries into the contest uh the code for this uh
1:24:24
wonderful opportunity is B fin all capital letters b o w f i n that's bof
1:24:31
fin uh just go to the contest section on fishing canada.com enter it in the bonus
1:24:37
code area and you will receive 10 free entries immediately give me a hell yeah
1:24:44
hell yeah I thought you were going to say bow men it's close well you can might as well be uh and if you haven't
1:24:50
entered it yet this is a perfect opportunity like I said to get a jump on your fellow competitors on the contest
1:24:57
section yeah you want to you want to get the best crack out of Mercury motor that you could boy that's a great prize wo
1:25:02
that are it we can't do any more than that that was a great episode love Joe we got to we got to do some some work
1:25:08
with him this coming year I'm behalf of the entire crew here Boba Nick Dean Mr
1:25:14
Bowman I'm Angelo thanks for joining us we'll catch you next time [Music]
1:25:26
[Applause] [Music]
1:25:40
[Applause] W this episode of Outdoor Journal radio has been brought to you in part by the
1:25:47
invasive species Center protecting Canada's land and water from invasive species Freedom Cruise Canada rent the
1:25:55
boat own the memories jmbb Cyca Marine your home for all things Power Sports
1:26:02
boats and equipment and sale the ultimate destination for your Outdoor
1:26:07
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