Can Science Design the Perfect Gamefish? | Outdoor Journal Radio ep. 157

Name: Can Science Design the Perfect Gamefish? | Outdoor Journal Radio ep. 157 | Open Video
Uploaded: 2025-03-20T23:38:53+00:00
Duration: 1 h 42 min 10 s

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[Applause] this episode of Outdoor Journal radio is brought to you in part by the invasive
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species Center protecting Canada's land and water from invasive species Freedom
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Cruise Canada rent the boat own the memories jmbb cyc a marine your home for
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all things Power Sports boats and equipment and sail the ultimate
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destination for your Outdoor Adventures all righty hey what's up guys
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welcome to the program once again Peter Bowman over there why' you scratch all that hey what's up girls why' you
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scratch all that why' you scratch all that out I don't like it I don't I think we're going to reread that one I'm going
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to do my own I'm going to add Li better job better job yeah uh welcome to the program Ang can't get away with anything
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Dean and uh all other Supporting Cast members wherever they may
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be wherever they may be we had Joe over there somewhere we got the C us over there we got Nick somewhere I don't know
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where he's gone uh what a wonderful show as per usual a little fish talk with the
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doc give me a hell I love it I love it I love it that's my favorite the doc look at that guy he's
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just there he knows it all Dean did we get some breaking news about uh his
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numbers going up ter what right before we went there so normally I copy paste like a bio of him because we've had him
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on so many times but when I sent him the script about an hour before we went air he sent me an updated version of it that
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he wanted us to read today oh he didn't like your I spit on you smart up yep
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well then we'll do it we'll save that until he comes on that okay sure we'll do it live there is a change in that but
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the stuff that we do know is uh is normal and legit he's a biology
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professor at Carlton University published a lot of papers peer-reviewed papers come on now um and lately has
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been inducted into freshwater fishing Hall of Fame woohoo that's very cool our
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very own the lovely The Talented Dr Steven Cook will be joining us here short on now before we do any and your
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questions that's right we're going to turn you loose on him because Dean has collected a series of questions I don't
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know where and from or how we got him everywhere but he got them everywhere apparently he's a collector he's he's a
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collector he knows how to do it he's a collector anyways there's a bunch of your questions that we're going to ask
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the doc here in a few minutes love it uh but first let's take a little trip down to fishing canada.com the store shall we
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I like that a little trip together I'm a little hippie take a little trippy a lot of new stuff going in and a lot of old
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stuff going out that's all I want to say about that now you haven't been there lately you need to get there and check it out look at us we're kind of kind of
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nice and neat here the way work tired today so you're tired he tired every day every day we go into a
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meeting it's only when it's only when I pry on
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it all right inside joke there everybody listener feedback in response to uh the
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MacKenzie River Monsters which uh just aired recently Dean is that correct at time of recording it just it was the
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last episode that aired by the time this comes out it's probably two episodes ago all right so recently it' be recent the
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last couple weeks it's worth checking it out uh McKenzie river monsters and they
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truly were Monsters uh but anyways in response to that listener feedback is here um at
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Frontier fishing with Ryan macd wow Ryan MCD Frontier fishing with
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Ryan macd YouTube has he got a YouTube channel Dean do you know he does yeah he didn't have a whole lot posted but no
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well go check him out that's Frontier fishing with Ryan
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MCD uh via YouTube says I had to I had the opportunity to guide at uh Brant
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Lodge back in 2056 oh that's a while ago 20506 so that
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would be a few years ago oh yeah right uh and had an incredible experience and
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how could you not but uh I grew up fishing and hunting in Southwestern and
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Northern Ontario and caught many northern pike uh in my short life at that point so obviously he was young and
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he caught many a pike however when he got to this place of the McKenzie that redefined ain't no pike when I worked at
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BRB Lodge we had days where we actually caught 100 plus fish now you know you
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hear that all the time e people saying I got 100 fish and and and in most cases
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they caught a lot of fish but 100 fish she's pretty well start catch catch
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catch catch the whole day if it take especially Pike if it takes 3 minutes
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let's say you're like horsing them in yeah that'd be horsing it in and then pictures like there fish like that you
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take pictures of and all it'd be more than 3 minutes but for some of them five minutes the average would be down from
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that it would be yeah two and a half we'll say two and a half minute average average and you caught 100 of them now
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so that is about 250 minutes but in between all of that you got to retie you
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got to cast you got to get the other R like there's things that you're doing absolutely I don't even think it'd be
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possible however having experienced this place talking about yeah it's possible
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if it's possible to do not uh due to the fish but due to
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yourself being physically in the position to be able to do it within a
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reasonable period of time a day this is the place where you could do it oh my God I I know when he says catching 100
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plus fish a day they won't all be that size there a 20 lb plus Pike or whatever like that they they weren't far from it
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there's a lot of them that size when you get out of these bigger fish it's almost like a double fishery there we were had
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we went for the big ones we knew we it's going to be less numbers but it's going to be a lot bigger when they said you
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got you want to go out after supper for catch catch cat remember that spot we went to the first island out from the
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lodge and we caught we caught 30 in less than an hour for sure sure just
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bang bang bang including some good ones so it is that 100 fish day is so possible there for sure uh Ryan MCD goes
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on to say I had the summer of my or Summers of my life and an appreciation
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to uh have had the opportunity to work and guide on the McKenzie river and this
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was our first experience on the McKenzie river as well at least this end of it yeah and I I just don't know what else
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we can say about it because almost to the point where we might want to start downplaying it because people will think
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we're making it up but it is without question and this goes for any species
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of fish it is I think a fishery that is
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unparalleled yeah because for a number of reasons number one it's relatively
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easy to access every day so we're not talking a big body water is not like going to Costa Rica and off the coast uh
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Bill fishing you know which you can't access every day this is accessible every day it's in the river McKenzie
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river and it's shallow water so it's not big water that can beat the hell out of
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this is a shallow I don't know average depth is maybe 6 feet 8 ft well we were
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fishing yeah that's exactly it 6t of water pretty much and literally the old proverbial every cast
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has a fish literally mhm you're certainly expecting one on every cast that's for sure right so and the beauty
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of of this fishery let's just get into this all very quickly that when Ang is saying it's like maybe the best in the
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world orever you got to let's compare it to um a far Northern Ontario Manitoba
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Saskatchewan something like that these fish move into back Bays they spawn and
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they almost immediately start moving out you know to deeper water to deeper water and then they're out in the abyss
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somewhere like that and and the time that the bray B Lodge is open so they're fishing in the peak time and they don't
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have a lot of time to do this on but these fish seem to have a lot longer of transition so they go in to the McKenzie
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to spawn and they work their way out slowly it's not like they boom out to the next points and then out to the
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Cabbage beds and it's and the Cabbage beds and whatever they working into are the same spots that they fish earlier in
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the year they just kind of foll them back out towards great slave but it's all the same area and it just lasts for
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like I think that's August and uh July and August for sure are there two peak months right but then they got I'm sure
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they go earlier and later than that by a bit and and these big girls just let me finish this these big girls are there
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that entire time for their entire open to close season of The Lodge which is which is huge I said this at the time on
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the episode I'll say it again now I would hate hate to be born as the prey on that
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River yeah could you imagine I I can't even imagine what they
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go through well even a small Pike cuz we saw one eating above waiting for the lodge we had one we were wondering what
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it was it was a pike with another Pike in his mouth so yeah you it'd be a dog eat dog world down there for sure
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just an unbelievable unbelievable experience and it's great that uh that
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uh Randy MCD experienced it himself firsthand and agrees with everything that we did show on the uh on the
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episode and if you haven't seen the episode if for whatever reason you missed it it would have been as Dean
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said a couple of weeks ago um go check it out on on uh on YouTube and it's
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called the McKenzie river monsters it is
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we although we experienced it and we were there I I I can tell you when we
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watched the episodes that we produced we even had to kind of shake our heads a little bit to to sort of remember just
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how good it was yeah it was incredible yeah absolutely and some of the Drone footage will show you the the uh area
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that we're fishing um and how easy it was to fish I mean is there was there an
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easier pike fishing experience you're right I mean as long as you could see
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that right so you can see that ledge and the Drone shows it perfectly like it was
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it was crazy and they had uh they had for our sake they had Garmin Force trolling motors in the front the foot
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control trolling motors and remote and man I'll tell you what did that ever make a difference for us that made huge
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difference I wonder if it would have been the same without a trolling motor no because so many time we locked we
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anchor locked right we did that anchor lock thinking the wind was perfect cuz there's current and there's wind and it
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was just just set up so perfect for us for those days that we were on the water the wind was the same direction every day and it was we just held off the
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brake and and then moved down a little bit further with the trolling motor then stop when you want it was it was uh it
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was fun that's for sure anyways um yeah uh Randy MD uh great reaching out to us
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and thank you for the comments on the show and he said he goes to say that uh
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uh he's glad to see that the lodge is finally getting profiled on our show
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well done guys awesome job catching some in Cano as well we caught some in Cano too right in Cano during the shoot which
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are very rare but apparently starting to show up with a little more frequency
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according to Peter fox really okay the lodge owner so I don't know whether it's I don't know well you know we blame
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everything else out let's just call it uh climate uh change maybe the canoe are getting more
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comfortable it's a cool fish uh conservation Corner brought to you by the invasive
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species Center let's get out this one look at something different am I excited
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hey there you go it's here Dean I got it [Music]
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buddy hey let me ask you a question which fish
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uh has invaded almost every corner of the planet aside from
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Antarctica and caused notable damage in regions where it has become
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prolific give up I give up anch all right well the answer is that guy the tench I never even heard
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of this thing before the tench Apparently is that species uh they are a
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medium-sized deep bodied fish with small scales rounded fins and a single barble
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on each side of the mouth so that'd be like a little mini like a little mini carp no a little mini it
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would be little burbles yeah y mini mini though don't see them on there you can't see them but
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no the head of a a perch you said right it looks like a yellow perch really that head for sure um these striking Olive
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colored fish were brought into Canada illegally in 1986 uh where they then escaped and made
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their way into the St Lawrence River well that's once you're there you're pretty much illegal I wonder why they were brought in we're have to find that
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out yeah I know there are sport fish in England oh big time like big time they
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are probably the English well no no I I don't want to you know sound negative
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but if that makes sense and the reason being is that the St Lawrence River is
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probably the second largest English carp
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fishery on the planet yeah the British coming over to yeah yeah they own it they own it they own all the carp
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fishery outfits on the St Lawrence that might make sense now that you say that
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but boy that would be awful if that happened they wouldn't do that why no not not for over here no no no although
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they got to such a population of carp no I disagree with that uh although not established in the Great Lakes they have
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since been spotted as far south as the Bay of quinty in Lake Ontario W so
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they're they're on the Move folks uh tenture highly adaptable uh to new environments and capable with Native
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fishes like minnows they compete with Native fishes like minnows Bullhead and suckers and Waters where they've invaded
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by eating significant amounts of snails insects and other Beth invertebrates
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what does that mean Beni Beni what does that mean what does that Dean what's a Ben thi in the water living on the bottom a thick guy named Ben is really
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thick Ben thick all right not only could they compete native species for food but
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it is predicted that tench could decrease water quality and increase the transmission of different parasites and
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diseases between other fishes in the Great Lakes okay that's not cool uh this is why Ontario has made them a
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prohibited species under the invasive species act meaning it is illegal to import possess transport and this is the
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big one or release them anywhere into the province so um you know what I'm
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going to make make a point here now I'm assuming release them if you catch one it should
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be illegal to release one too right I think it is yeah it's like it's like B
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in other words if you catch one don't put it back don't put it back and there's that is a problem maybe now
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we'll go to the Brits that might be a problem here if they don't really realize what this they're they're it's a prized catch because I know a guy that
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fishes in Ontario and has always wanted to catch a tench and he's a carb fisherman and he's always wanted to catch a tench really yeah but I wonder
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if he knows that hey buddy if you catch one you got to kill it so I don't know if it'd beo how big are how big do these
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things I don't think they're very big the ones I've seen in in Britain are you know smallish like a small sucker kind of yeah yeah yeah I think that sucker
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size maybe I'm not sure on that one but they're not giant I know that for sure so learn more about tench like we need
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to clearly CU this was just put on our desk by the way just so that you know which we were very happy to we're happy
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no problem um including how to identify them which just like the grasscarp I
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mean that's the important thing if you don't know what it looks like then how can you be vigilant about it uh visit the invasive species Center website if
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you've seen a tench or another invasive species in the wild report it to the invading species hotline or online at Ed
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maps.com has anybody ever figured out what that acronym is Ed Maps Ed Maps Ed
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maps.com Dean do we know that we could find it yeah we should find find yeah we
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should find that I've asked before nobody's helped me with uh Ed
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maps.com uh and help keep our waterways free of invas it seems like we got a Bas
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get V to check that up with his other hand he typ that while he's doing this got well he can take it up for that and he got that hand in there working like
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rooting out something he's mining he's mining for minerals early detection and
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distribution mapping system early detection and distribution map system
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wow y do there you go uh find out more about the
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tench don't get tense just find out about the tench uh brought to you by the
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invasive species Center come on now all right uh what's in the news Mr
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Bowman a bunch of pigs well there you go you and your buddies I've T you that before you don't agree with me on a pig
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hunt there in Napanee back in the day e and then yeah wild pigs may be spreading
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CWD chronic wasting disease so this is Norm were're associating that with deer white
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tail right I wonder how many people know that that was your nickname that your wife gave you when you were before you were married you're wrong no no you're
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wrong oh I'm not oh it's true it's the name is right she didn't give it to me
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oh I thought she your other girls that worked in this company gave it to me Laura I think Laura or Pam but I think
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it was Laura that gave it to me say so we might as well get into it right now
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the nickname that Ang was uh referring to since I was talking about wild pigs blah blah my my nickname was pig boy
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back in the day hey pig boy and then Laura would call me piggy hey PG and she go yeah yeah and it was just because
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wasn't really because I you know I rooted around like a pig Al although he did but what I but I really meant was
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that I my my language is sort of less than uh less than optim Church going a
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Rel a person of your stature less than optimal for a person of your I want to say it a lot of time they just say it
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and then I think oh oops maybe I should have said that but uh so pig boy was uh yeah yeah I thought it was your wife I
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thought no as a matter of fact I don't even think she ever referred to me that honestly back then I don't think so
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Laura loved that wow because she was you were still impressing her at the time right with your how you doing oh trust
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me she knows right she knew right off the Hop the piggish that comes out of this mouth there's no doubt about it she
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knew right off the Hop uh that's for sure anyways chronic wasting disease which is the the white tail thing
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normally right Dean is that any ulent can get it like any any type of deer moose anything with antlers normally can
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get it right yeah so now they're saying that wild pigs with no antlers no antlers tusks maybe they got some tusks
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right don't they those wild BS uh the study detection of prons which is a
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protein I'm assuming that's part of this chronic wasting disease Dean is that correct yeah that's the cause of the
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disease so the disease is basic it's kind of like mad cow disease but essentially a py Just A protein that
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causes other proteins in your body to like deform and fold and that's what creates all the problems well you know
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it's like when you pry on it all day like you do well see things happen right
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yeah yeah well what's happening to these guys I like that I'm going to use that
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too much pry on too much pry on I think maybe Nick might be the guy that we have to really his protein levels might be a
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little high right now right um used the so so the detection of pry and wild pigs
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uh from areas with reported chronic wasting diseases cases in the United States he used a prion application
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amplification test and identify prons and tissues of wild pigs living in the US in areas where CWD is prevalent and
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unlike uh deer I think pigs would be more if if in fact this this is becomes
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an issue um I would think they're probably better adapted at being able to
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spread this thing than deer pigs are very it's weird though it says they did
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not contract the disease but did appear to be carrying the prion yes so they're not affected by it so they're a vector
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vector they think that could be the case yeah and then they could give that
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disease out eventually somehow it could spread the disease I guess CU what an is saying if they can that's a way bigger
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problem than a deer oh much bigger sh from my from my understanding this is only transferred through the eating of
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meat so I think that's how would get it I'm not sure I don't really understand how that would then spread back to a
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deer who that's a herbivore so it's a little bit strange to me but maybe it
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can be passed to like like the feces or something but so would wild pigs in the
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wild eat deer if they were dead oh hell yeah they'll eat anything
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so that could be the way they're doing it right no that's the way they're getting it but what what Dean is saying
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how would they give it back right spread it well you know feces obviously would be an issue if a deer comes on to a pile
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of pig feces would there be uh wolves for instance that would eat the pigs
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well there get it yeah yeah Poss I don't know it's weird this whole thing you
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know this is this predates you Dan before you were even born we were
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talking about this CWD and and it's very doomy and gloomy
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the subject but it never seems to get beyond that you
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know what I mean yeah it's always yeah a report says that according to the last
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piece of news in the in the Outdoor World oh by the way but would you eat a piece of meat that you knew was
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contaminated like would you eat like a like a steak from a deer that you knew had the disease no I would I don't think
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so I I mean just psychologically depending on the circumstances if it was the you know you're in a camp somewhere
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it's the last meal and you're going to yeah liver ey of course i' I'd have to think about it but no still to this day
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it's not been uh CWD is not in Ontario still Manitoba and Quebec
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apparently we're surrounded and every state around us and every state around us boys Bo that way tell before you were
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born I was reporting this stuff on radio and that we were surrounded but thank
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God it hadn't hit Ontario yet and here we are almost 30 years later and we're
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still saying it's all around us but thank God it's not here yet there's something weird going on there's
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something weird there that's for sure how how can we so well we're good at it
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hey we're good we want to put the blockers up we can block we can block yet yeah we're good onar you but yet the
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tench got through the blockade mhm doesn't make sense damn TCH there's something going
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on here I don't know what it is efforts are at CWD and nothing else so far
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that's what it is there's no effort on any other invasive just CWD there's a lot of cons like conspiracies around the
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disease we should go over one time I would like to do that because I'm I'm starting to think that maybe it
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warrants that approach that'd be a fun one you know uh fan question of the week by the
24:51
way that's on fishing canada.com the news section that's there right now if
24:56
you want to get a little more in depth about this uh
25:01
incredible Stroke of Luck that we have here in Ontario being surrounded by The Walking
25:09
Dead and yet we've been managing to keep them at day sea of the Dead I like that movie
25:16
that was good uh fan question of the week brought to you by our good friends fishfindermounts.com give me a
25:25
hell fishfindermounts.com I was speaking to somebody yesterday our good friend
25:31
Jack Summers from radio world I Know Jack of course you know Jack every who
25:37
doesn't know Jack true enough vaa do you know Jack Summers vaa knows Jack
25:42
everybody there's nobody there is nobody that doesn't know Jack Summers wow
25:49
nobody anyways uh we were commenting about fish finder mounts.com and there's nobody that Jack Summers doesn't know
25:56
well that's true too so anyways um fishfindermounts.com
26:01
brings you a fan question of the week now this is not to be confused or is this this is this the the award yes this
26:11
is this is to be confused with that to be confused with that so so this is the
26:17
point in time where we Peter and I have the onerous
26:23
responsibility responsibility is upon us to decide life here on the show whether
26:30
this question is worthy of a 100 buckaroos lot of pressure on the fishing
26:35
canada.com store here we go uh submitted by Todd
26:43
kohut come on now what k o h u t via YouTube so and and now in order for this
26:49
to qualify it had to be done via YouTube only they won't qualify unless and
26:55
subscrib and Todd had to subscribe to what to our Channel our Channel being
27:02
what fishing Canada no the fishing Canada show on fish Canada show there you go thank you Todd for subscribing
27:09
that was very nice very nice Todd says what's your thoughts on the pleasure
27:15
booat operator's license after all these years question mark in your experience
27:20
has it helped much with the safety on our Waters
27:26
personally I see lots of boat who don't seem to know the rules no they
27:33
didn't that's what Todd wants to well Todd I'm going to agree with you and this what I've seen out on that water is
27:41
uh close to Insanity sometimes and everybody on that water should have a
27:46
boer's license I'm sure I'm assuming they do have a boer's license right so if there're if all this Mayhem is going
27:52
on out there and you have your license it ain't working my question to uh Todd
27:59
and you now that you say that because I spend a fair amount of time on the water
28:04
as well yeah and you're not a bad boat driver either you're not bad I question um I haven't seen that much
28:13
boat usage that uh looked like somebody didn't know what they were doing so I
28:20
need to ask you what give me give me some examples well I'd say mostly I mean a lot of the uh I don't want to use a
28:27
brand here what do you call call them jet skis oh tons hey they need a license
28:32
Bud oh but wait a minute that's that has less to do with boat licenses and more
28:40
to do with a lifestyle than it has every anything else a vessel they are a water
28:46
vessel that is the same as a boat that is the same as everything else and you should be doing the same thing and that kind of stuff here's my problem with
28:53
that comment you know yourself that you get into a whether it's a car or a boat
29:00
or whatever what other means of transportation you want there are some products that just lend themselves
29:07
to making you look like you're reckless and wild right than others yeah and I
29:12
would like to say that those units you you mentioned jet ski which is a brand
29:18
but that's not no it's not jet ski is the is generic is that generic so jet ski is one of those products because you
29:25
get on it crank it and automatically you look like you are Bobby Reckless you're a b he is the original Bobby
29:33
dazzler he was a jet skier he did never a license that's right Bobby daer got a
29:40
start from that that's an inside joke for a but it's true but you know what I mean it's
29:46
just one of those one of those vehicles that it's like a snow machine same thing you get that thing you go 100 m hour
29:52
ain't going to go 100 m hour rip and going to so but in terms of boating well
29:57
okay okay I saw not that long ago uh was it last year the year before I saw an
30:03
incident where if you took your boers exam you would know that this is going to sound so stupid
30:09
but you would know that if there's a red pin and a green pin a red buy and a green buoy you go between those buoys
30:14
cuz you took the test and you learned all about it and this person racked up on the Rocks right just outside of those
30:22
two running full board I've done that running full do you remember right beside the Channel Do You Remember
30:28
I can tell you the incident I can tell you exactly what happened on the upper French River when
30:35
our when our mapping device went crazy remember it pushed our tracking our you
30:41
went by the mapping device and not the buoys right right I wasn't even looking at them I was following our path home
30:46
right and remember it went off course on us okay you might have to get your license revoked exactly but anyways that
30:53
I mean and that happens on a on a time and time again and then the in the 10K
30:59
zones where you you are you by law you must slow down in these zones now maybe
31:04
people don't give a about that but they should know it that little whatever 9k 10K whatever it is that white buoy
31:10
says slow down mofo and then go through here nice and slow and then back out there and they're not abiding by it so
31:16
could that be ignorance or just I don't give a or whatever but I think there's a lot of still people don't really understand the rules that you
31:23
know on the sailboat thing coming at you know I mean you got to sailboats can't turn as as easily as our our Prince
31:29
craft k so we can get out of the way of that sale vat a little easier the only reason I'm asking that question is
31:34
because could we not apply this discussion to the road exactly exactly
31:40
and and and I'll take it one step further and I'm not protecting people who are ignorant of the law here don't
31:46
get me wrong but I haven't done a driver safety course for 50 years or 60 years I
31:55
would probably be challenged a little bit today mhm going through a course
32:01
yeah right yeah of course yeah it's not because I'm a bad driver not because I didn't get legally licensed
32:06
but sometimes you don't especially in boating especially okay because
32:12
sometimes you just don't store all of that information that you cram for when you do an especially an online exam
32:19
abely because they don't cuz most people don't want to get the license for the information they want to get the license
32:24
they just go and that's it I'm going to do all this I have to I do this I hate this but I'll do it then forgotten
32:30
Forever by the way those are the same people who take their life jackets and throw them into the bowels of their boat
32:36
and bury them with everything else that they bring in the boat only because they
32:42
know that that's okay by the law okay yeah I wonder if that law was changed and then and then would how many people
32:49
would put that in their head that's part of your licensing that you you know you went to the course and you have to wear your life jacket I wonder how many
32:55
people will still do you know people wouldn't be doing it like everybody wouldn't be doing until until it came to a lot of find seat belts right did did
33:02
we I I remember driving without my seat belt illegally at first for the longest time yeah oh yeah I don't remember the
33:09
longest time I I just no I I'm not going to put that on and and and then I went
33:16
through a phase where where I would it was hit and miss sometimes I'd
33:22
put it on and sometimes you saw a cop you throw it over the shoulder like how
33:27
many times have we done that no actually that back then it was just that it wasn't a shoulder right it was just the waist belt that I don't know but I do
33:33
agree with him that we've got far too many boers out there that don't seem to really have a grasp of the rules simple
33:39
rules or respect for the rules exactly respect other boter that's the big one respect for other voters that doesn't I
33:47
was just curious as to where what uh yeah he meant by that and what you meant
33:52
by that yeah
33:58
we interrupt this program to bring you the much anticipated bonus code for the latest fishing Canada giveaways uh this
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week's code is trolling that's trolling t r o l l i n g all cops just type that
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in the bonus code section of the contest and receive 100 free entries towards all our current giveaways for those who
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haven't entered yet what the heck are you waiting for head on over to fishing canada.com while you listen to the rest
34:27
of this episode click contests and sign up for all the latest fishing candada giveaways and now back to the
34:35
show all right time for a little fish talk with the dock uh this week it's
34:40
brought to you by sale yes sir sale The Outdoor Store uh your home to All Things
34:47
fishing hunting and Outdoors clothing and much more uh head on over to hunting written in here they should I know they
34:54
got such a great hunting section probably one of the most comprehensive of hunting section in a retail store
35:00
I've ever seen upper level very and great selection and everything Not Just
35:05
Not Just Guns and Firearms they got decoys they got calls they got you name
35:11
it dog training gear they got everything probably have U do year in there as well
35:17
oh I bet yeah they do that's normal right Dean do p uh it's not legal not legal
35:23
CWD the uh the stuff we talked about earli they don't sell that see everybody
35:29
s does not sell that nor do they but they have everything else they have all
35:34
the other stuff uh head on over to your local St the same thing yeah you get
35:39
same thing urine at sale okay you can take a pee there they got a nice wash they have
35:46
a beautiful actually they have a wonderful they do you I just said that anyways head on over to your local sales
35:52
store if you don't have one go to sale.ca that's s ai.
35:57
CA and check out all of the various departments they've got a sale going on all the time I I believe they still have
36:05
stuff up to 60% off so don't like before you go and run out to buy something
36:11
Outdoors go to sale.ca first check it out check the pricing see it's available
36:16
and then uh do your business all right uh he he he is now officially I've got
36:24
uh my new paperwork here uh uh he is now
36:30
officially in possession of a title that might be unique he has published more than
36:35
1200 peer review papers come on now at last time we interviewed him we said 700
36:41
so he's been a busy man that's for sure look at uh biology professor at Carlton University a chair of the board of uh
36:49
technical experts for the Great Lakes Fisheries commission and uh fellow of the Royal Society of Canada none other
36:56
than our very own the lovely The Talented Dr Cook don't forget recently
37:01
introducted in the freshwater fishing Hall of Fame for contributions to recreational fishery science it's a big one all right okay I'm good yeah it's
37:08
it's sadly not because my fish catching so yeah how are you Stephen I'm great
37:14
thanks how are you oh good good good this that time of year for us you know here's the time of year here's the
37:20
period we're in right now so when we spend you know pretty much the entire
37:28
120 days of summer on the road by the end of it we're you know we've had just
37:36
about enough right we've just about said okay this is like crazy and so you come
37:42
home you li your wounds you relax a little bit get everything cleaned up and
37:47
a funny thing happens right about now January early February you say man I'd
37:53
like to get back on the road again just weird and that's where we're at chomping at the bit right there chomping at the
38:00
bit so yeah we're going through I guess it's Outdoor Show season uh
38:05
coming it helps it helps Bridge things you know what I mean uh do you have
38:11
downtime like is yours cyclical like ours is yeah to some extent uh you know
38:17
we do a lot of the writing data analysis uh that kind of stuff in the winter months but fish also don't take a break
38:24
we study and our students also do winter ecology as well just not as much of it
38:30
so or we go to warmer places so we've got students doing work in the Caribbean and oh there's a job yeah I have to go
38:38
you know weekly to check in on them make sure a boy I don't see you going to the northern part of the province there is
38:45
to check on that minus 32 weather do I no no my basement's cold enough as you can see by the T I'm good you might want
38:52
to get a little heater in there doc yeah uh so normally we get on the
38:57
program because we have a question that popped up somewhere you know within the
39:03
community that we need answered and we bring you on and get the answer but sometimes selfishly so
39:08
too say hey let's get Steven on but I understand you and uh producer Dean
39:14
Taylor have got something else cooking now uh we've actually got uh audience
39:19
questions for you today that uh we're going to take an attempt and see if we can get some answers for them ask a
39:26
biologist askabiologist that's perfect all right that's now saves saves us a lot of talking too bud well we can sit back and
39:33
let him go yeah uh let's start right off the bat uh Kyle voden via YouTube wants
39:40
to know doc um I have noticed a lot of grass developing on some of the western
39:46
Heron tributaries uh which would cause lack of oxygen obviously this person
39:51
knows a thing or two about biology uh would cause a lack of oxygen in the water during Salmon's migration I want
39:57
to know if it's a direct result of phosphorus in the Watershed caused by
40:03
agriculture tilling the land yeah makes sense so all of us eat
40:10
food uh last time I checked and uh that food is grown on the landscape and there
40:15
are some agricultural practices that definitely can uh contribute to pollution especially if fertilizer isn't
40:23
used in optimal ways or if there's a big rainstorm right after fertiliz
40:28
is applied and so on but uh a lot of farmers are really been quite
40:33
Progressive with a lot of government support stewardship activities uh recognizing that connection between what
40:40
happens in the land and what happens in in our tributaries and then what dumps into our lakes and so on so uh 40 50
40:48
years ago yeah we could have had a show here where we s sat around and you know and and sort of threw mud at the
40:55
agricultural Community uh thankfully things have gotten a lot better um that doesn't mean that we we we can't do more
41:02
but in general we've seen a lot of improvements um so so yes there are
41:08
still some nutrients that come off of farm Fields but they also come out of communities uh our um sewage treatment
41:16
plants uh are not as uh not always entirely effective U but there's a lot
41:22
of other things at play and and vegetation green plants living material
41:28
isn't necessarily a bad thing in fact it is producing oxygen uh it's when that
41:34
material dies and it typically doesn't die in the winter it tends or sorry in the summer it tends to die in the winter
41:41
um so uh we're also seeing water get clear uh because of some of those
41:46
improvements in uh agricultural processes and that means that the light
41:52
can penetrate and that plants can grow so more vegetation doesn't necessarily
41:57
mean that it's a it's a bad thing um obviously if if a salmon stream becomes
42:03
choked with vegetation looks more like a Backwater looks more like Backwater large mouth habitat that's that's
42:09
problematic but a little bit of green is a good thing in uh in our our rivers and streams okay hopefully that's the answer
42:17
you're looking for Kyle um Laurence you know this one Lawrence Bandy he's our
42:23
buddy from fishfindermounts.com too via Instagram okay stepen Dr Steven Cook do
42:29
you think funding of regulations enforcement is lacking in Ontario and possibly Canada in general well yeah our
42:38
uh depending on where you are whether you want to call them conservation officers game wardens fish cops uh
42:44
they're definitely those Frontline workers that are out there uh even during the pandemic when we were all in
42:49
our basements they were still on the job out there uh every day uh really
42:55
important um but when I think of a conservation officer and I recognize they carry a gun and handcuffs and a
43:01
ticket book They're Educators right like that's that's what they do they are the
43:06
people that are helping to educate the public on better fish handling practices
43:12
on how to be responsible stewards uh helping people understand and decipher
43:17
which are oftentimes quite complicated regulations uh it's not about running
43:22
around and arresting people and charging people it's about education uh and you see so many photographs
43:29
online of conservation officers at Youth Fishing events and you know work going to those outdoor shows to to interact
43:36
with people so so I I just want to start with that so um and and along with that
43:43
when you are out fishing you may or may not encounter a conservation officer you may see somebody else breaking the law
43:49
or doing something that that you think is is uh uh breaking the law and be
43:55
dismayed that there's a a conservation officer you know not you know not there within minutes to address that and
44:02
that's because they need to balance their time and and how they spend that effort uh educating people so that they
44:09
comply with the laws and don't break the laws and engage with our resources in a meaningful way such that they're at an
44:15
outdoor show that means that they're not on on on the water but that's still really really important work the other
44:22
thing is they spend a lot of time behind the scenes working with contractors
44:29
developers uh working with lawyers spending time in court dealing with some of those bigger files so instead of
44:36
dealing with like hey is you know does do you have a license or not they're dealing with large scale habitat issues
44:43
and um I can I can guarantee you uh if they bring charges forward or are able
44:50
to stop uh pollution or some major habitat uh infraction that that's much
44:57
better time spent than throwing tickets at a couple people because they're fishing without a license or even have
45:03
one or two fish uh over their allotment and I'm not advocating for fishing without a license uh or uh but it's you
45:11
know with limited resources you got to figure out where to put them and protecting habitat habitat is the
45:17
foundation of healthy and productive fisheries and so I don't mind that they spend time in you know in at
45:24
construction offices and uh uh you know behind the desk dealing with with those
45:29
kinds of things that's important could we use more uh conservation officers and
45:34
other folks that deal with environmental enforcement absolutely uh but the men and women that we have there on the
45:40
front lines are doing their best and just because you don't see them doesn't mean that uh you know when when you
45:47
think you need them doesn't mean that they aren't working um they're just working on things that might not involve
45:54
uh you just think of all the think of all the water that's there think of the fact that they also need to sleep think
46:00
of the fact they also need to spend time in the bush and in Wetlands dealing with
46:06
uh hunting uh they can deal with aggregate resources and gravel extraction and all sorts of different
46:12
issues that uh that they end up having to to deal with so would I like to see more yes uh but uh um just because you
46:21
don't see them doesn't mean that good things aren't happening to protect our natural resources see it almost sounds
46:26
SS from what you just said that we need another tier I was almost thinking the
46:32
same whatever you're doing I'll tell you and I like we're connected telepathically obviously right what I
46:38
what I was equating this to and maybe it is going on in there but is almost like the police uh on the street versus
46:45
detectives you know what I mean not that I'm thinking Educators well the detectives could be that educator think
46:52
of the if the cops think of and they do I'm sure they do I'm sure the police uh regular police
47:00
officers spend some time you know at that educational oh yeah level um but in
47:08
this case because we have so few or it seems we the jurisdiction is so big
47:14
massive okay bigger than a city bigger than a you know I mean it's massive it
47:20
almost seems like we should have enforcement officers and they're
47:25
one-dimensional they're the guys with the gun and the handcuffs and the ticket book right Y and they're following leads
47:33
and they're you know making bus and all that stuff and then you've got another level which is strictly education
47:39
because I do agree with you one of the biggest problems we have in wildlife management in general is
47:47
lack of education so to put a conservation officer in you know in that
47:53
position I think is almost wasting well that's because that's because they can't pay another
47:59
guy to do that so we'll make you do everything sort the poor people there's just not enough we had I looked it up quickly and Mr Google there and 20 to 25
48:07
years ago in Ontario what 20 to 25 years ago is we had 280 conservation officers in Ontario
48:15
okay in which was not enough and in 2021 it was down to 184 so and that's the
48:21
last I could find I don't have any current number of it's gone down even more than that but that's quite a you know that's 100 officers Less in that in
48:28
that time frame and they were looking for 25 new officers in that 21 time but we don't even know if they I can't find
48:34
anything on it I don't know maybe Stephen knows more about that do you have any IDE numbers yeah I would like
48:39
to think they've been doing some building and Facebook I follow a couple sites that tell me a little bit about what the conservation officers in
48:46
Ontario are up to and they're showing you know every couple months I'll see a new cohort coming out that's a good
48:51
thing uh but we've also s Sanford Fleming College which is in Peterboro Lindsay area
48:57
uh they are where the bulk of the conservation officers get trained before
49:02
they uh they have a fish and wildlife program that's really good at preparing
49:07
that next generation of folks that will get brought in and then go through formal Co training uh they've had to
49:13
mothball a number of their programs due to some uh funding limitations so I don't want to get into the academic this
49:20
is a an issue that extends across universities and colleges in Ontario and Beyond uh partly driven by the lack of
49:27
international students that we've been using to sort of cover cover costs and other things uh so I I certainly have
49:34
concern as do others about the the future if that pathway uh for for
49:40
recruiting new uh cosos isn't there so we'll see hopefully uh sir Sanford
49:45
Fleming uh is able to rectify that because they such an important Service uh to our Province agreed it's an
49:53
interesting topic maybe one we should dedicate a little more to and the other provinces cuz we don't know anything
49:58
about those other provinces right what what is their situation are they like Ontario right now or is it better
50:04
somewhere and is that a good uh meth methodology to use for your you know I don't know it's just a great subject
50:10
great great question one other thing that uh just quickly one other thing that's happening behind the scenes now
50:17
is uh they do have Intelligence Officers um that and this is obviously uh
50:23
happening at an international scale with interpole as it relates to for example the trade of endangered species across
50:30
International borders uh but also within Canada as well so instead of having to
50:37
sort of you know sleuth around on the street given technology there's a lot that can be scraped from the internet
50:44
from social media sites you know where are people selling illegal Goods or
50:50
where are where is there evidence of uh routine law breaking where are they seen
50:56
images posted of fishing own of Seasons so there's a lot of behind the scenes
51:01
intelligence gathering and Analysis that goes on it's entirely uh computer-based which is a
51:07
new frontier for us you don't think of Fish and Wildlife crime being fought in from a a computer but that's also
51:14
happening so that you can direct those field officers to where they need to be instead of hey Ontario's big you know
51:21
just you know just cruise around and see what you Happ to encounter it's much more targeted uh and needs to be because
51:27
of the limited resources and that extends across Canada Canada is Big a blessing and a curse and there are no
51:34
shortage of dummies who commit crime against wildlife and proudly proudly put
51:42
it up on the internet to share with their buddies there's no shortage those Bobby dazzler oh my
51:48
God anyways um all right uh Nick Tyron
51:54
via Tron Tron that's right isn't it yep yep you just came right back with
52:00
that I love it uh via Instagram uh what causes muskies to have different patterns on
52:07
them a great question uh from you know some are clear some are spotted as we know and then you've got some that are
52:12
striped some are vibrant some are flat what causes that I mean same whatever your answer is I'm sure it can also be
52:21
discussed in in relationship to other species like bass and walleye Etc but
52:26
car exactly yeah so there's a couple things at play there so within a water
52:31
body so let's just take a a an isolated water body and within it when you're fishing you will catch some fish that
52:38
look a little bit different than others and that's just the natural variation that's driven largely by genetics and so
52:46
uh if over time if especially if that system has been isolated and there hasn't been any stalking uh through time
52:54
the the genetic complement in there uh might select for something that makes more sense so for example if it's a wedi
53:02
system then vertical bars might be more adaptive adaptive meaning that it allows
53:07
you to hide better within weeds uh more cryptic to say an Osprey flying overhead
53:15
also more cryptic for the fish that you want to eat so you know a pumpkin seed swims by it doesn't notice you you burst
53:22
down and you've got yourself a quick meal if there's survival benefit so if you have stripes and that means
53:29
that you eat more less likely to die you're going to have more babies those
53:35
babies are going to get passed along relative to an animal that might not
53:40
have those same Stripes they might not be as effective at feeding they might not be uh uh uh survive as well and
53:48
those genes sort of drop out of the population so at a lake level we can see that going on um just those genetic
53:56
principles sort of playing out natural selection survival of the fittest and yes Stripes could make one more fit than
54:04
spots or no pattern in a given water body and then when we start looking across water bodies you've got systems
54:11
that are that are uh deeper clearer uh maybe more rocks I'm thinking about some
54:18
of the areas in the St Lawrence where people fish for for muscal lunge uh they maybe the the spots or or less uh uh uh
54:27
stripey spotty stuff at at all might be more advantageous so uh there are of
54:34
course mutations genetics do odd things um and so every once in a while you get
54:39
something that is a real Oddity um which might Stand Out relative to other other
54:45
uh fish that you routinely catch in that system so it doesn't mean in a lake that's got lots of vegetation all the
54:52
fish will always be stripy uh because uh when genes come
54:58
together interesting things happen uh including mutations so uh so yeah it's
55:04
it's it's bit about genetics but a lot of it's about what we call local adaptation and what are those
55:10
adaptations that tailor that animal to the conditions in which it survive which
55:15
it lives and allows it to thrive uh in terms of
55:21
bass they seem to be able to turn it on and off a little more than most most
55:26
other Predator fish that that certainly that we've been associated with small Mo bassic especially I mean as you know you
55:33
can you can go from light to dark instantly you put them in a live well and they change colors like a Lake
55:39
Ontario fish is flat nothing and then boom that's obviously it has everything to do with their environment as you just
55:46
mentioned you know with the with the musky veral aggressiveness too though doesn't it with with the smly is he
55:51
pissed off and he gets all those stripes or is that just a yeah and and a stress response so you know they've just
55:59
exercised and instead of Rosy Cheeks that we might get uh sometimes that Ma
56:04
that's manifested in color changes as as well but also them trying to you know
56:10
adjust to life and a live well for example uh um and uh yeah so there is
56:17
there is some we call it plasticity so some things are set genetically you know like the shape of your nose for example
56:24
you know unless you got plastic surgery that's that's more or less fixed but uh
56:29
you know you can spend time in the sun suntanning right and get it a darker
56:34
slightly darker complexion uh you can spend time at the gym sort of shaping your your your your physique and so
56:42
there's some plasticity within a body and for fish some of that plasticity we see in color so that same fish can be
56:49
very different colors uh depending on the day depending on the environment and so on but it's limited that you know a
56:56
isn't going to turn blue uh it's not going to all of a sudden look like a
57:01
coral trod or a or a a dolphin fish a Dorado uh they've got a limited range in
57:09
which they can they can change they can lose color too they not can they not cuz I caught a large Mo in the fall this
57:14
year that was almost silver like the lack of green and yellow in it was like it freaked me out I thought what is that
57:20
so can they lose pigmentation too absolutely but you're also getting to a time of year you know when to the weeds
57:26
die they start to die off in the fall uh largies move out of those shallow weedy
57:31
Bays into more offshore areas uh and having a bunch of bars when you don't
57:37
need them isn't as advantageous perhaps as being a little bit more silvery and sleek and perhaps harder to see against
57:45
a a more open background that's just water water so you well that I I like
57:50
that but this in this case every other large M be caught in that same area and the green that are there they were all
57:57
beautiful green you know in that fall when they get crazy nice green this guy was like unbelievably less colored one
58:04
more on the muskies go back guys before we take off Stephen if a barred musky
58:11
and a spotted musky spawn together could a clear musky be
58:17
produced so not sure yeah I don't know that there's been much work in that space uh
58:25
because that's it's um what we do know is that if you
58:32
want fish from georan Bay to do well in Georgian Bay and you're gonna raise some in a hatchery you take those genes from
58:40
Georgian Bay uh again that's local adaptation Mother Nature's done that
58:45
over the past 11,000 years or so since the last ice age that covered this area
58:51
and so that tailoring is always already happened um yeah I I don't know what
58:57
happens when you put together those it's not going to be uniform though I can tell you that what you know it's not
59:03
that every fish will come out the same uh that's the way genetics work there's some shuffling every baby isn't
59:10
identical some of those babies will will die within a couple days of of hatching
59:16
for various reasons and then there'll be the very few that make it for the long term there's something unique usually
59:21
about those ones that make it the long term it could be coloration but it could be lots other things as well the reason
59:27
I said that an just is because in I've gone this my whole life is uh Labrador
59:32
Retrievers you have a black lab and a yellow lab that breed together you don't
59:38
they could be they could be all black labs cing out that yellow influence it could be all black labs that come out it's thought you say they prod choc lab
59:45
you could have two black labs that produce yellow labs which is really weird how about chocolate chocolate you
59:51
can't eat that yes you don't eat that anymore do you that's the I have a chocolate
59:56
yellow and black La prod here's my theory on chocolate lab is that if you take a chocolate lab female with a block
1:00:05
of cement you will get a chocolate lab cuz my I got a cement head of a dog right now I'll tell
1:00:12
you uh how about food how much uh how much does it play uh in this game of
1:00:19
color because and I say that because we've all caught walleye that that from
1:00:24
certain parts of the world that definitely have uh more of a bluish Hue
1:00:31
to them than say a standard Walley you know we've always called them blue wal well blue blue right but yet you know
1:00:38
you find out well no it's just what that particular strain is uh exposed to
1:00:44
foodwise does it play a a bigger role in coloration and maybe even patterning on
1:00:50
the fish at all it it can play a role uh but again
1:00:55
there's that plasticity right there's limited you know scope for change there um obviously if we eat nothing but
1:01:02
carrots we're going to turn a little bit orange and if there is a certain food
1:01:07
item that's available that has certain characteristics like carotenoids that uh
1:01:13
that would be conducive to those changes you see that you see that sometimes with
1:01:19
with the Flesh of fish sometimes it doesn't always manifest on the outside it's on the inside so uh depending on
1:01:26
what what fish are feeding on and I'm I'm thinking off the top of my head here more about some of the uh things like
1:01:32
shinook King Salmon when they're out in the ocean you know are they feeding on Krill or are they feeding on hering uh
1:01:38
and that can lead to quite different uh flesh coloration as well so food certainly plays a role as well but that
1:01:47
assumes that your your food actually has some range of color and most of our
1:01:52
freshwater fish around here uh and in vertebrates aside from like some of the
1:01:58
crayfish uh I've seen some some small smalles I've caught that have been awfully orange leading to the almost
1:02:05
into the red coloration I wonder if that's you know gorging oneself on on
1:02:11
crayfish that are a certain species with certain coloration but by and large it's
1:02:17
yeah I I don't think color plays a huge role around here okay there's an experiment for you yeah you could you
1:02:23
could take any fish we'll use a large again and put feed them goldfish
1:02:28
exclusively goldfish goldfish goldfish and the other one straight minnows in another tank and see if there was ever a coloration after a couple years or
1:02:34
something that'd be cool I used to feed our fish goldfish for they love love goldfish oh my God man they love them he
1:02:42
they take them over minnows every time they see that nice little flash of orange and they it's almost like they know that you know they're not they
1:02:49
can't move they can't they just sort of w wiger out and they're bright and they can see them things okay here we go
1:02:57
anyways poor goldfish people are listening you guys are so mean you're feeding goldfish oh we're feeding real
1:03:03
fish you know for these little things so anyways the next question that experiment playing out in real time
1:03:09
right now Hamilton Harbor is just full of goldfish and I think things like uh
1:03:15
bofin and Pike and Largemouth are probably enjoying themselves uh as you
1:03:22
they're brightly colored they don't do a good job of fighting aren't the fastest
1:03:27
easy to digest yeah and Walley too Hamilton Harbor's got some good Walley now
1:03:33
apparently apparently it's like a world class well if they're feeding on goldfish I can understand why even be
1:03:38
bigger now okay we'll move on to the next one say this is from Charlie Harmon via
1:03:43
YouTube um could the solution to some of our fishery declines uh like Atlantic
1:03:49
Salmon Brook Trout Cutthroats Etc be found in genetic engineering I.E produce
1:03:55
more heat tolerant fish Etc H yeah uh so
1:04:00
short answer is yes uh but there's a lot to unpack there and so first of all
1:04:05
there can be uh ethical issues that Society needs to wrestle with this isn't
1:04:10
about a Fisheries manager to decide whether or not we should genetically engineer animals that we release in the
1:04:15
wild that's sort of a big picture societal discussion and we've seen some things with genetic genetically modified
1:04:22
foods and some people will intentionally avoid purchasing them them others you know are indifferent or don't uh don't
1:04:29
care or or haven't been paying attention to to what's going on uh it's absolutely
1:04:35
possible to engineer fish selectively breed fish uh for certain
1:04:41
characteristics and uh the technolog is getting uh better and better um and in
1:04:48
fact there's already been research that's been funded in Canada a couple years ago there was a big project funded
1:04:54
by genome Canada uh to look at rainbow trout Fisheries in British Columbia working with the
1:05:00
freshwater fishery Society of BC uh professors mostly from BC uh there are a
1:05:05
few others involved from I I was involved as as well being uh here in Ontario and it was about that very
1:05:13
question what do we need to do to ensure that our recreational rainbow trout
1:05:19
Fisheries um and there's a lot of stalking that happens there there's a lot of small uh small Inland Lakes but
1:05:26
also thinking about steel head the the natural runs and and also some of the stream River Fisheries where you've got
1:05:32
got native uh rainbow trout populations but you know what's that going to look like in the future and can we identify
1:05:41
characteristics of fish uh that that will allow them to thrive in that
1:05:46
condition and so it's not it's not just heat Toler you know can you live or die we want them to be able to grow you want
1:05:53
them to be able to reproduce so uh uh so yes that work is already underway but
1:05:59
we're not necessarily seeing those fish released across the countryside yet um
1:06:05
there's all every time we bring animals into nature there's some selection that occurs right uh whether that be uh
1:06:13
because we want brighter tomatoes and you know that that stay firm longer in our fridge uh with with fish when we
1:06:21
bring them into captivity uh fish that are more uh reserved Meek uh shy they're
1:06:28
not going to do well in those Hatchery tanks they're going to get uh they're not going to get the same amount of food
1:06:34
it's going to be those Bolder individuals that are are able to do uh much better and so anytime we bring
1:06:41
animals uh fish into captivity we tend to produce animals that are a little bit Bolder um and that are are are pretty
1:06:48
good at fighting over that that trout Chow um so yeah lots lots that can be
1:06:54
done um the the some of these genetic tools though I think where their real promise might be is with invasive
1:07:01
species um there's some really interesting potentially scary if things went a muck you know we don't want
1:07:07
dinosaurs accidentally uh uh or Masons accidentally uh being uh sort of uh you
1:07:14
know brought back to our our Landscapes uh but there are ways to manipulate
1:07:19
invasive species such that they essentially uh breed themselves out of
1:07:25
uh uh um to death basically so you can put in genes where those animals are unable
1:07:31
to pass on other genes or that actually kill other individuals they interact with so I think there's some promise
1:07:38
there as well for maybe being able to get rid of some of these invasives that have been really tough to handle are we
1:07:43
not doing that now are there not programs in place now where we have
1:07:49
manufactured uh mule uh males or females of a particular species and release them
1:07:56
out there so that they wouldn't you know perpetuate their their their kind type
1:08:02
of thing is I it's been going off for a number of years hasn't it yeah I'm not sure whether the I don't know the the
1:08:08
deer example well enough to comment on whether or not that was genetic manipulation or simply releasing sterile
1:08:15
M so yeah to to me that's the same thing right you're you're engineering
1:08:20
something that is abnormal and releasing it to have a certain effect
1:08:26
on it's it's a bit different and I'll give you an example with C Lampe so for
1:08:31
a while the C Lampe control program had a sterile male release right um but they
1:08:37
had to take so you've got a male that that is fertile in your hands you
1:08:43
literally hold him up to a device that injects him with something it was called dzur is the name of the the chemical and
1:08:50
it's sterilized it was a chemical sterilant and then you release the animal so it's not that you are creating
1:08:57
a bunch of animals genetically it's that you are chemically castrating that
1:09:02
animal so that when it goes and and it still goes and reproduces and so they
1:09:08
spawn with the ladies and the ladies are like sweet I got myself a good mail here but he's shooting blanks so that's the
1:09:14
way that that works so she's wasting her eggs on a male that that can't fertilize
1:09:19
them so uh that program was discon um but they are now working on
1:09:26
and this isn't anywhere near field roll out right now but there's a lot of behind the scenes work going on on
1:09:32
lampre right now to look at genetic control methods so that is the next Frontier but there's a lot of societal
1:09:39
issues to work through as I said uh and uh a lot of a lot of tech you know
1:09:45
genetic technology that still needs to be refined you want to get it right yeah kidding it seemed like an awful long
1:09:51
slow process to go out and catch a male L pre and inject it and then put it back
1:09:59
like like like I can't even get my head around how many it would take to just
1:10:06
see some sort of result and how long does that result take versus just killing the males to begin with right
1:10:12
well there's that too right you know but he's right this is a longevity thing this is year after year year of spawning
1:10:18
right that they the only thing that Stephen said that kind of G made me feel okay about it was that he says you're
1:10:24
wasting the females eggs right right because if
1:10:29
you just go out and kill all the males eventually there are still some males out there find the right exactly find if
1:10:36
you're was males get around like sperm is cheap and they most Mal just like a
1:10:42
human just like a human yeah um you know what we had a we just did a podcast
1:10:47
recently Stephen with the rusty crayfish and marble crayfish I wonder if that's somehow they could do that with with
1:10:53
those I mean without affecting are our natural see that's the again Steven said you got to be real careful because our
1:10:59
natural crayfish might be affected but if you could do somehow genetically make them not reproduced the one is the one
1:11:05
is uh male and female which one was that oh uh the marble the marble Mar marble
1:11:11
you'd have to really work on that one but uh um yeah it might be something because they're they're out of control
1:11:16
right as Steph as you probably know they're out of control in the Kara here R like they's talking about Lake of the
1:11:21
Woods for rusties and that it's crazy all I know is that when you start screwing around with
1:11:27
nature usually it goes bad right we we've done it for so many centuries that
1:11:35
we've been playing around with nature and every time that we say yeah I got it figured out here's what we're going to
1:11:41
it just doesn't we're smarter now that's when Steven had 700 now he's got 1,200 of these reviews done okay we're getting
1:11:47
better all the time all right uh Josh by the way if we don't get to all of these
1:11:53
I guess we can all agree that we can just save them for the next one right yeah cuz I like these these are great think this is a great podcast I also
1:12:00
don't want to rush them CU there's some some you know um Josh Everett via
1:12:05
YouTube says what are your thoughts on the extended fall Seasons oh this is going to be a good subject um at the
1:12:13
mouths of heavily fished Rivers uh the decline of steel head populations is
1:12:19
evident in rivers with fish tracking stations I didn't know that I didn't know that either uh do you think that
1:12:25
steel head runs would benefit from a close season like we have seen recently
1:12:30
with salmon yeah H there's obviously high levels of
1:12:37
Catch and Release with the with the steel head um that tends to be sort of
1:12:42
the you know the characteristics of those that are at least successfully targeting uh targeting steel head um a
1:12:48
reminder that steel head are non-native they were introduced although there're certainly a fish that that uh we value
1:12:56
and that there's active efforts to ensure that those populations are are are
1:13:01
sustained um but there yeah there when you're talking about
1:13:08
fish like that that have been introduced I'm sort of of the mindset that they're there to be used you know that it was a
1:13:15
resource it was a calculated decision to put them in there not because you know
1:13:21
we wanted to increase biodiversity so let's add a new species no it was to create an opportunity for the
1:13:27
recreational fishing community and so in instances like that I think it is important that we remember why and that
1:13:35
creating fishing opportunities opportunities for people to interact make sense um I can't speak to the
1:13:41
details of how much pressure uh they can sustain steel head are reasonably robust
1:13:47
to catch and release uh at coolish temperatures and around here the
1:13:53
temperatures uh aren't uh they're not on the edge in the same way that we've
1:13:58
we've seen in some some other places uh steel head around here doing okay um so
1:14:07
yeah I I think that uh I I like fishing for steel head and uh I don't think that
1:14:12
there's a whole lot of sense in trying to constrain them some of the reasons that fishing restrictions are put on um
1:14:21
and we've seen that in uh um uh uh sorry
1:14:26
Port Hope right that's where the yeah yeah yeah thanks uh you know is that
1:14:33
really about fish or is that about conflict between uh people residents you
1:14:40
know parking issues and and so on good point sometimes Fisheries on occasion
1:14:48
and you know For Better or For Worse sometimes fishing regulations are used to address other issues that are not not
1:14:55
specific to the sustainability of a a population or or a fish stock so yeah in that case Port Hope is a classic example
1:15:02
it it has has very little to do with the fishery itself but more with human
1:15:08
nature to take advantage of and to to be inconsiderate and all that to the local
1:15:16
folks you know and I'm talking about Anglers that go in that Community once or twice a year and just have at it
1:15:22
littering all over the place and the parking is an issue and it is an issue
1:15:28
and so and so you know it's not a Fisheries thing but you know it's it's a human like I sometimes just shake your head I
1:15:36
question it shake your head people I just question I lived in Port Hope for many years Steven and uh and I
1:15:43
experienced uh I I did the the fall fishing for steel head for a while but then I got out of steel Head fishing
1:15:48
completely did my hunting and everything else so I let it go that I think everybody needs to know that the numbers
1:15:55
of Anglers that hit these smaller stretches of river towards the end of the year is way down from let's say
1:16:01
opening day on on Port Hope because so the ganaraska river on opening day I will guarantee you there's more dead
1:16:08
fish caught caught killed and whatever they want to kill them for in that one day of opening day in the Isis in the
1:16:13
entire from uh September October November of the both of that River there's just no way because these these
1:16:19
Anglers that are there the the few that are there are hardcore they really love their fishery and like St said there's a
1:16:25
lot of Catch and Release that's going on as a matter of fact it's probably 95% Catch and Release these guys are very
1:16:31
good at what they do they just want to catch a fish and enjoy it and release it and you know and maybe they'll keep a small one a small female for some spawn
1:16:37
for the spring or something like that but they're very very 're conscientious
1:16:42
conscientious Anglers exactly so I I think there's by stopping that would you
1:16:48
really would be doing nothing I I honestly but how do you separate how do you separate the we from the CH you
1:16:56
don't I mean you can't there's going to be a bad apple in every in every bag of apples right so that got bad apple you
1:17:01
got to now I'll tell you another thing these these Ardent really good and
1:17:06
conscientious Anglers are good stewards so if you're there and you don't know about what you're doing and you're
1:17:12
kicking a steel head up the bank cuz you want to keep them that somebody's going to come over and talk to you about it and then Enlighten you about it and say
1:17:17
hey you know what buddy you might not want to keep this whole limit of fish here you know what you see everybody else is catching releases but sometimes
1:17:23
it's just a bit of ignorance and somebody can tell them but you know that turns into a show right it could it
1:17:29
certainly could depends not always though not always but it for sure it happens yeah we've done some work on the
1:17:37
bulkley in BC and obviously that's drawing a very specialized steel head
1:17:42
angler uh super sort of you know the angling Elite people that spend their
1:17:48
lives dreaming and you know about steel head and we see uh on average there fish
1:17:54
are caught release two to three times a year uh a season uh and they still go up
1:18:00
and spawn so it with good handling uh release rate and uh uh if people are
1:18:06
releasing fish uh survival is quite high and those animals do go about their their business we do have to keep an eye
1:18:12
on warm weather years obviously uh hot water can mix that up um and uh yeah and
1:18:20
take opportunities when we see them to educate others on how to handle fish well and make responsible stewardship
1:18:26
decisions when they're in the field in fishing it could be said though that the the bulkley is kind of it's like the
1:18:31
unicorn of steel head Rivers I think right it is so perfect there is not a
1:18:37
better place on this planet that suits the steel head better
1:18:44
than the bulkley river it's got everything it's perfect it's it's Nirvana for for steel head and steel
1:18:51
head Anglers and you're right the people that do go there there there is no Riff Raff on the B there no riff those
1:18:59
they're hard fish kickers yeah no they're they're hardcore and uh they would rather die themselves than to kill
1:19:06
one but you know places like Port Hope and and where Josh is talking the other
1:19:11
thing he says here um we haven't talked about is he's saying that there is uh
1:19:18
evidence uh to show that a decline of steel head on rivers that use fish tracking stations do you know what he be
1:19:26
referring to there at all or why yeah I'm not sure whether he's sort of implying that the fish tracking data
1:19:32
reveal a decline or that the yeah I'm not really sure so the on uh so for
1:19:40
example in Port Hope at the fishway they have C uh they have a counter um they use cameras they can identify which
1:19:47
species pass and when uh and those are on some of the other systems as well
1:19:52
there's other on occasion they also use uh radio tags as in terms of uh
1:19:57
electronic trackers as well uh but yeah I'm unaware of any link between those
1:20:04
two uh so there's no evidence as far as you're concerned uh showing that where
1:20:09
we have really gotten involved with that local fishery in terms of data
1:20:15
collection that that it's hurt the population at all no I think I I'm thinking the question is just not quite
1:20:22
fully fleshed out um I I get the fact that we should always question the
1:20:27
scientific research monitoring methods we use to make sure that they're not doing more harm than good uh but uh uh a
1:20:36
fish counter in a fish way isn't going to make a difference between whether or not that fish passes or not right uh and
1:20:42
then same thing with the radio tags now uh you know very high survival rates uh
1:20:48
know how to do that quite well an argument could be made I remember years ago when I was uh hanging out on the
1:20:55
rivers quite a bit uh I had this one older gentleman uh who wasn't an angler
1:21:01
but he was down at at the ganaraska might maybe yeah anyway one of the rivers and um he was really pissed off
1:21:10
because he was watching um no it wasn't ganaraska anyways there was a there was
1:21:16
uh they were lifting fish over the obstruction so that they could go up above to the spawning grounds maybe yeah
1:21:22
it was Bowmanville they were lifting him to go up over top so they could spawn and and the guy was just irate he was
1:21:29
even yelling at the at the guys who were actually working on the on the cage and stuff and I had a little chat with him
1:21:35
and and I finally you know I had to say to but okay so you do understand that
1:21:42
two things number one these fish are not native here and secondly if those guys
1:21:47
are down there working hard don't put them up over the top chances are they're not going to reproduce they won't be
1:21:53
laying eggs right so what even if even if they might be bothering them and maybe harming the
1:22:00
odd one inadvertently it's all for the good because they won't reproduce he un he
1:22:05
got it he really thought that we were just in there interfering and mucking
1:22:12
around with a wild fish that Wonder would have been going through but he was not an angler he was not an angler he just SC down I wonder what his thoughts
1:22:19
were why are they doing this yeah it was weird cuz I mean it's a pretty impressive operation when you
1:22:27
crazy yeah and the reason we have all of those dams in tributaries of the almost
1:22:34
all of the the tributaries of the Great Lakes towards the mouth is for lampre so
1:22:39
they are barriers Lampe can't jump uh and so you create a barrier lampre can't
1:22:46
get past but you want your other members of the fish Community to pass so we call
1:22:52
that selective fish passage we want to pass everything except the lamp pre
1:22:58
maybe we don't want to pass grass carp maybe you know so how do you do that and so there's still today a lot of
1:23:04
questions about how to do that without having to have some dude sit there and sort the animals there's still a lot of
1:23:11
trap sort release because it's very effective you're not going to accidentally transfer a lamp pre whereas
1:23:20
if we have Engineers design a fish way that we think a lamp pre can't get up um
1:23:26
it's quite possible that we will have some some mistakes there because fish are remarkable and L pre are remarkable
1:23:32
and they'll figure out a way so um there's a big project underway on the Borman River in Michigan uh the Great
1:23:39
Lakes fishery commission is putting in an experimental fish way and it's going
1:23:44
to be a place where they can manipulate all sorts of things to figure out that selective side of things how do we block
1:23:51
Lam pre but allow everything that we want to get past to get past so it's this really cool uh instead of having to
1:23:59
you know bring in the engineers and you know the the you know poor new concrete and so on it's a fish way that they're
1:24:06
able to change everything configure everything using aluminum plates and and other things to test so each year
1:24:13
they'll configure it in different ways to try and figure out what works once they know what works then they'll um go
1:24:20
back and start to retrofit some of these dams that exist across the Great Lakes Basin wow that'd be a great project to
1:24:28
to see yeah that' be fantastic yeah yeah yeah um what do we got we got one more
1:24:34
next Jonathan penders via Instagram um if fish are picking up on the signal
1:24:41
from forward- facing sonar oh boy we talked about this with Ste a yeah that's right would a we did a whole thing with
1:24:47
Stephen on this would a scrambled signal cause more disruption to the fish with
1:24:53
it always changing the signal waves especially and this is what Angela was talking about maybe they
1:24:58
could change the signal to help us versus the fish but especially on fish that rely heavily on their lateral lines
1:25:04
to feel vibrations to find food yeah we and we did talk about this
1:25:11
last time and I think we sort of came to the conclusion that there's actually not a whole lot of evidence that fish can uh
1:25:18
you know feel uh or or somehow sense those uh um you know waves the the
1:25:27
energy that's coming off of these devices um the manufacturers of these if
1:25:32
they thought it was a fish repeller uh I I'm I'm pretty sure that
1:25:38
uh the their Pros uh wouldn't be fogging them like they they are um in fact as
1:25:45
scientists we typic like we want to identify technologies that can repel
1:25:50
fish and uh sonar is not an approach that we've been been using to do that we
1:25:58
use noise uh we use bubble curtains but it's not and I know noise you know uh
1:26:06
the the sound the uh it is sound energy that's coming off of these devices but
1:26:11
it's at uh levels that we don't think are detectable by fish so I think that's
1:26:17
the the big the big take-home message there um yet and and I say fish there
1:26:22
are perhaps some fish that sharks are incredible uh they have a a not just a
1:26:28
lateral line system but also uh things especially on their on their head uh
1:26:34
that give them really unique sensory capabilities but uh yeah usually when we're concerned about sonar and what
1:26:41
it's doing to animals it's the marine mammals we're concerned about so uh and
1:26:47
even there it tends to be more military grade sonar uh that is problematic uh
1:26:53
you know when submarines are are are uh are doing their thing uh there's
1:26:59
certainly evidence of some Marine Mammal kills in the past uh arising from that
1:27:05
uh but uh you know first of all we don't have marine mammals in our uh I want to say all but most of our freshwater
1:27:11
systems in BC there's a and and uh out east there's certainly a few places where our marine mammals swim way
1:27:17
upstream and hang out in Lakes Harrison Lake in British Columbia uh there's certainly seals in there uh and not a
1:27:26
not a a hint of any salt water uh but in general I I I don't think this is a a
1:27:33
big issue or uh we would have uh you know yeah Pros aren't GNA have a
1:27:39
repeller on the front of their boat and the fact you can see the animal and interact with them you're not just
1:27:46
chasing fish that are always running the other way you're able to watch them interact with your bait uh to watch them
1:27:52
do what fish do there not it's not always just hey watch their tails as they swim away from you we're not
1:27:58
chasing fish typically with these devices so I know that's all pretty
1:28:03
anecdotal uh but uh yeah I'm not overly concerned and yeah as an angler I I
1:28:09
wouldn't be taking it off the front of my boat or not purchasing it for fear that we're uh uh chasing the fish around
1:28:16
how about those devices that uh were really popular for a while I don't think they're quite as popular although you're
1:28:22
going the same place I'm going I thinking the same thing we're connect something else today if it is HydroWave
1:28:28
is that what you're thinking yeah where they where they actually induce you know they create sounds in the Hall of the
1:28:34
boat that actually attract fish the hydro wave is a perfect example it's a
1:28:40
little speaker that shoots emits out these noises that are shad and that are crish and that all these sounds are they
1:28:46
are they the real deal is a fish can hear but in a very you know and it
1:28:52
varies from species to species they have their own species specific range and we're learning uh increasingly that fish
1:28:59
communicate with each other and they do do so through sounds some animals have very uh some fish have very obvious
1:29:06
sound producing uh mechanisms so we think of the drum and so in freshwater that would be things like the freshwater
1:29:12
drum uh they grunt you can hear that when you're handling them sometimes they do the same thing underwater uh really
1:29:19
loud uh similarly a lot of fish in the Snapper uh complex if you're fishing off
1:29:25
Florida there's a lot of sound there but uh yeah there's a lot of freshwater
1:29:30
species that we just simply don't know if they make sound or not or communicate in any ways uh so you know it's probably
1:29:39
not going to hurt uh but it's also it's not probably where I would
1:29:45
invest my my dollars um again I I think I'd focus on trying to understand uh a
1:29:51
water body understand the fish in it um trying to trick them and lure in prey
1:29:57
with with sound seems a little bit over the top so I could ask you a question here CU it just do dby we've spent our
1:30:05
entire lives trying to figure fish out why because we pursue fish we we we've
1:30:13
made a career out of fish we have raised families by understanding
1:30:18
fish now here we are talking to a fish biologist
1:30:25
a scientist totally immersed in that culture who fishes and we've never
1:30:31
really asked him have you figured it all out like you go fishing but you obviously don't go fishing like we do we
1:30:38
go out there say gee I don't know like what are we going to where like you must go out in a totally different level when
1:30:45
you go out fishing cuz you understand these things are you the Superman of fishing is are you the Whisperer of
1:30:50
fishing I think I'm probably among the most frustrated of all Anglers on the planet because you would
1:30:57
think exactly and oh yeah the the answer is is
1:31:04
no fish are always they they failed to read the textbooks they failed to read
1:31:09
my papers uh they're and even when you know where they are you can't
1:31:15
necessarily get them to bite there are all sorts of things at play and I think I'll flip it around I
1:31:23
don't think we would go fishing if it was if it was so so easy that we it
1:31:30
wasn't work that it wasn't that little element of frustration um you know I
1:31:36
love catching bluegill with my kids uh after day three at the cottage uh you
1:31:42
know it's like you know it's just it's it's just so easy that it starts to get boring even for the kids you know having
1:31:50
a you know that day where you struggle you know getting skunked on occasion I think that's what keeps us fishing and
1:31:57
coming back so you know I think we want fishing to be good but I don't think we want you
1:32:03
know I don't ever want it to be a certainty you know that I go out and I know exactly when I what I get I know
1:32:10
exactly where I'm going to get it that's what keeps us guessing it's that Myster mystery the
1:32:16
Curiosity uh that uh I think keeps us coming back well think that would separate the that will SE that separates
1:32:23
the the Anglers from the meat eaters it was real easy to think it would just be a meat eting thing it would just be okay
1:32:29
let's catch them and kill them and let's eat them and all that it' be nothing to it right but I I guess it's a good thing that the formula does not exist right
1:32:37
because then you're right our our Fisheries would not be doing as well as it's doing today right
1:32:44
so because it would just go out and catch kill catch kill so there are things you know as we've talked about as
1:32:51
as you surely know that can tip the scales in in in your favor uh but it
1:32:59
doesn't guarantee it you can have the you know the most knowledge about a
1:33:05
given water body you can have the latest and greatest technology on the boat you could have been there yesterday and
1:33:10
absolutely slay them and you could walk away today skunked that's fish that's
1:33:16
true I asked you that question because sometimes you know we feel the pressure because people kind of expect that of us
1:33:23
right that we just go out and if we take them out fishing it's going to be a a
1:33:28
catch Fest I mean why wouldn't it we that's what we do for a living well I I equated that to you you know talking to
1:33:35
you all this time and I'm thinking well does this guy just go out and stand in
1:33:40
the boat and the fish just jump in and say okay all right like like but anyways
1:33:45
I got a quick story for you both you guys and you like it you you guys are like it and it's exactly what stepen was just saying so Mike buris is a buddy of
1:33:52
mine from napan he know the Bay of quiny really well okay Mikey and I fished for
1:33:58
half a day on quinty this this last fall the week before he and Dean Thompson
1:34:03
another buddy of ours went out and smashed them all in these same areas so Mikey and I went back to these way
1:34:09
points now not just the broad stuff the waypoints that we're going to work work work work work we had nothing in our
1:34:15
boat by noon okay that's and Mikey's an expert and and and to rub it in even more we were going down the bank and uh
1:34:23
we came to to a dock and a a husband and wife standing there and the guy was saying and that's we blew our minds we
1:34:30
said no we're not doing very good we haven't got anything so far he oh I heard that uh Dean Thompson and Mike
1:34:36
burus were here last week and they smashed him this is the guy on my boat he didn't recognize Mikey he just they smashed him we started laughing said
1:34:43
this is Mike burs and he says yeah we smashed him here long story short I dropped Mikey off of the boat launch and
1:34:49
I says I cannot get skunked for the day I have to go out Mikey and I and I went further out I caught one large M that
1:34:55
whole day one stinking pound and a half large M that whole day and water that we know is ridiculously good so things
1:35:03
changed whatever the reason that there was something that changed it was void of fish in the areas or they were biter
1:35:08
they weren't biters or whatever you know what I mean it was so bizarre but that's a that's so true what you said they it
1:35:13
can change in a day you know it's crazy that's why that's why we love it that's why we pursue it it drives us crazy and
1:35:19
that's part of the game right yep uh one final question then we've got to get got
1:35:25
definitely got to go here I I I think it's important because it really sums up everything that we just said here in
1:35:31
this last segment uh Kyle Hansen via Facebook wants to know why did you
1:35:38
decide to pursue fish biology as a career yeah well it's because people
1:35:44
because of people like you watching TV shows as a kid really getting interested in bi in fish biology fish ecology I did
1:35:53
inherit a tackle box from a my grandpas when I was about 7even years old uh and
1:35:58
my parents were good enough to drive me to the the local you know tackle shops and ponds and rivers uh but it was
1:36:05
really through magazines at the time and TV shows this is obviously pre- internet
1:36:11
uh that's what got me hooked on fishing and then starting to think about oh you know there's this environmental sector
1:36:18
as a career uh so started getting interested in that but it at some along
1:36:24
the way probably through things like outdoor shows start to realize whoa there these booths and there's a biolog
1:36:29
you know there's a Ministry of Natural Resources biologist or Fisheries manager you learn more about M&R and fisheries
1:36:36
management and then wanted to go down that path and it was during my first year of University that I was working
1:36:43
with a a a graduate student on Research that I got the research itch and so
1:36:50
research really is you know uh it's asking questions you know that we don't
1:36:55
know the answer to and trying to understand how the world works and so it see research seemed to be the perfect
1:37:01
blend for me obviously in the space of Fisheries um and we do a lot of recreational fishery science so I can uh
1:37:08
legitimately um fish with Rod and Reel and call it work uh so that's how things sort of connected uh and uh certainly uh
1:37:17
love that choice and uh it's not all you know on a boat interacting with fish uh
1:37:23
spend a lot of time in boardrooms advising governments uh working on you
1:37:28
know helping to support policy development training the next generation of Not Just Fish biologists but
1:37:35
environmental decision makers uh and uh having a whole lot of fun along the way
1:37:40
so yeah well Excell uh you're extremely good at it that's probably the bottom
1:37:46
line of the whole thing if there was ever somebody who is made for it it's you you uh you do a great job and we we
1:37:53
appreciate you having having you on the program man all right I think that's it for now we'll save the rest uh for
1:38:00
another day yeah I I love these I hope we can do some more of these this is great I mean I think for everybody
1:38:05
involved so uh Stephen thank you very much my friend uh keep up the publishing
1:38:10
maybe we can get you up to 2,000 before the end prob next week way he's
1:38:17
going thanks brother thanks we'll talk to you soon uh Dr Stephen cook
1:38:24
1,00 PW peer reviews papers and uh recently inducted into the freshwater
1:38:30
fishing Hall of Fame uh for contributions to recreational fishery Center and here on uh The Outdoor
1:38:37
Journal he's the fish doc he's a doc man Fish Talk he said something there that that uh very quickly to the audience he
1:38:45
said something there he says it's not all out in the field well you think Anan and I are always out in the field look what we're doing right now right here
1:38:51
we're doing this we're going through editing process we're doing that so it's not all about the the field stuff but
1:38:57
when it when it happens it is fun so here here we're not going to quit this
1:39:02
job soon not today not until Stephen has another 400 papers out exactly all right
1:39:08
uh want to thank everybody for joining us before we let you go I want to remind you about the jnb cycle uh and
1:39:16
Marine involvement in the show with their contest but more importantly it's Ontario's largest Princecraft and
1:39:23
Mercury dealer and if you haven't uh checked them out go check them out on the site if you're in the area Tim and
1:39:29
Sudbury either one of those two uh places go in and say hey to Rob and the boys and the girls that work there uh
1:39:36
great people to get uh not only B packages although that's really their
1:39:41
strength but just to get a lot of other outdoor products and information into your hands heck yeah this time of year
1:39:49
ATVs snowmobiles the whole time of year right now that we're recording they're probably I'm just wondering they're
1:39:55
probably working on Spring already oh God yeah right like their stock is starting who was I talking to somebody
1:40:01
yesterday they're working on 2 27 or 28 stuff already and I thought
1:40:08
what the hell that's even worse than us oh my God uh Dean anything uh we're missing
1:40:13
buddy that I no we have some contest coming up so J&B is giving away another
1:40:19
Mercury motor we just we we announced our winner a few weeks ago at this point on the website so you can check out if
1:40:26
uh to see who won that um I don't want to make any announcements on this podcast because I'm not certain on the
1:40:32
airing date but make sure you check the page because there's always new stuff up there always new giveaways on fish I got
1:40:39
a nice comment uh from the other day on the phone from a friend of ours uh he said man he you guys like
1:40:45
with this contest I thought it was just going to be a little thing a few years ago you started like it's it's a big deal isn't it the deal it's the deal man
1:40:53
uh it's all there at fishing canada.com it's free of charge go in it's yours have at it um uh make sure you get into
1:41:01
all the contests don't just get into one whatever is available up there get in uh it's all free of charge that are it on
1:41:08
behalf of the entire team here boa and Dean and of course Pete I'm an uh talk
1:41:14
to you next time folks [Music]
1:41:23
this episode of Outdoor Journal radio has been brought to you in part by the invasive species Center protecting
1:41:30
Canada's land and water from invasive species Freedom Cruise Canada rent the
1:41:36
boat own the memories jmbb cycle a marine your home for all things Power
1:41:42
Sports boats and equipment and sail the ultimate destination for your Outdoor
1:41:48
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1:41:57
[Music]

Can Science Design the Perfect Gamefish? | Outdoor Journal Radio ep. 157

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Can Science Design the Perfect Gamefish? | Outdoor Journal Radio ep. 157

fishncanada.com