Are Warm Winters Hurting Our Fisheries? | Outdoor Journal Radio ep. 103

Name: Are Warm Winters Hurting Our Fisheries? | Outdoor Journal Radio ep. 103
Uploaded: 2025-03-24T17:47:42+00:00
Duration: 1 h 34 min 10 s

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[Music] and now another exciting episode in The Adventures of Outdoor Journal
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radio howy folks welcome back program Outdoor Journal radio I am Angelo viol
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he is Peter Bowman vula Nick and Dean kind of in that order well uh well
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I don't know you're an invisible Nick again is what you're introducing there but that's good uh I have a contract
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with them I have to do that or I'll be now the truth is coming out I got you I got you speaking of legalities I have
0:32
not heard back I was expecting to hear something back uh from the folks at uh
0:38
WestJet or Air Canada or Porter are you kidding me you're you are expecting
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something back from them you know what foolishly I thought maybe that somebody
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would tell somebody who would tell somebody who would tell somebody that Angelo was not a happy camper with may
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they knew who you were maybe you should emphasize the Outdoor Journal in I hope I Aspire One Day to for that to
1:03
happen but you want me to send him a nasty one I sent a nasty one I sent one
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that I was embarrassed to send to Air Canada not on this incident love you to
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read that over the I could uh I I I sent it uh about a year ago and uh that was
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when we got back from my cast could have been it was and it you said it was like you had to go through like an 80 page
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Sur or something just to do it yeah they make it very hard yeah and you would think that one
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person one person would have said holy man like this guy we need this guy
1:43
pissed off yeah like we need to get a hold of him and find out what's going on
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but you they probably get those every day when you think about it the way they're treating people that might be a common occurrence for these people so
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these companies who knows right you you're one of many I'm still beside myself how that could
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happen no you're beside me well and and who's beside myself true okay bounce
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back by the way this might be the first time that Mr Bowman and I obviously look
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like we came out of the same dressing room we both have hoodies on don't see much of the gray on my the two-tone on
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my it looks black doesn't it now is that the camera operator that maybe is not maybe I'm sorry it'll be fixed in post
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oh it'll be fixed the camera for sure has got the good deal going on but we're looking through a shitty little monitor
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maybe that's what it is so it's not the camera with twoone here this is a nice light gray lighter gray black here uh
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looks wonderful he's got the gray on complete there they both look black they both yeah yeah oh well we've lost a lot
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of detail in US buddy yeah over the years Story of My Life yes sir however we do have a wonderful
2:52
program to share with well you didn't tell them that they can buy these at shop can I thought that maybe you would do that automatically and you well you
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cut me off I was just about to do it if you go to shop. fishing canada.com you too can buy these hopefully you'll see
3:06
the proper colors embroidered by the way embroidered logo just feels so nice hand embroidered by Young maidens I'm told
3:14
that's what I'm told I could be wrong but oh well I'm going to buy a couple more of them then I have somebody told
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me that got to keep the young beautiful embroidery yep is the best part I mean
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they do feel great the the these are comfy I have to say we we're haming it up here folks these things are comfy as
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hell they really are nice yeah the embroidery is just a bonus that'll last forever right I would think so as
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opposed to silk screen although we do have those available too at a much lower price for
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those can we just address this for a moment I no no I'm serious it's good go
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go I I I noticed uh recently that we received some of our surveys some of our
3:57
surveys that we've asked folks about what they think of the uh store and the merch that we've got in there and I
4:04
noticed a couple of them were saying that you know what they didn't like was the prices were too high like your nuts
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are too high remember that one remember that joke oh my god do I remember that joke
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that was a good one Alex I remember the guy that told me that joke Alex Yeti Alex and yeti on on one of my
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construction sites and he told me that joke and I died laughing okay go ahead
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sorry anyways uh I noticed that we have a couple of people saying that the prices
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are too high and uh my question to those folks
4:40
is that are you looking you know at the lower price versions because we have this these two
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wonderful garments available with a silk screen logo on and while we do in that
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one I don't know about this one but we do in that one we have it silk screen and that is considerably it's not not
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the same quality as this but you can get it for I think half the price of that
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right and the logo pops off it looks good that silk screen is the one thing about silk screen it really shows up
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nice they do a good job of it so yeah so I I'm just saying you know maybe you need to as my uh old wood shop grade
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nine wood shop school teacher Alvin hiltz used to say Viola read all the
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pages in the book so in this case look at all the pages in the catalog there on
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think should have read all the pages in that email from WestJet the other day if I guess that would have
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helped anyways a wonderful show today uh we have uh often asked ourselves why
5:43
don't we get somebody on here a scientist on here to help explain certain things about uh fish and fish
5:51
behavior and and feeding habits and food CH fish environment and I think we might
5:58
have inadvertently got one on coming later on his name name is Dr Michael twist now he's coming on because um we
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wanted to talk to him about the lack of ice on the Great Lakes this year and how
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it's going to affect fishing down the road and because he is one of the few uh
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members of a team that that's all they do is study ice and its effects or lack
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thereof on the environment um he's going to be joining us Lily Ron but we're going to ask him
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about how uh it will affect our fishing as well as the uh
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ecological potential disaster ahead with a lack of ice mhm um before technical
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technical stuff yes I have a feeling I like I like technical stuff I'm not too good with it but I'll try W you're good
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napan you're not giv enough credit to napan you know no napan was good I just wasn't oh it was you a bit of a learning
6:53
stumbling grounds there and it was not the teachers it was the student you know what I mean I had fun there though I had
7:00
a lot of fun in thaton I'll tell you that right now was good times good times so they could have airlifted you to cus
7:08
casing it wouldn't have made any difference could have brought me to the biggest University of Toronto you know
7:13
what I mean and I would have been good at sweeping up the floors there and that but a bit about it right
7:19
there uh how are you liking the new season that can season I'm loving it I
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think it's a great look great feel um the shows are really slick uh in look
7:30
and I think there's a good more storytelling to it still got lots of fish and fishing um yeah I think we've
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just we've Advanced a little bit more I've had some buddies that have written me and said even what's different about
7:42
your show this year what's going on there's something different you know they don't really notice it so it's kind of subliminal but which is good that's a
7:47
good way to have it best way to do it really uh we've gotten quite a few saying hey love the show keep it up uh
7:53
can't wait for the next one and all that stuff so if you're not one of those uh and you don't like it could you let us
7:59
know would you mind reaching out to us and uh can we give them something if
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they if they do that Dean is there any do we want to give a people who don't like to show stuff well no I'm just I'm
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not saying necessarily tell us that you don't like it I'm saying tell us what you think that's what I'm saying we
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probably put together like a contest for some hats or something something I'm not uh I don't know if I have permission to
8:23
give that the power right power go you have to go to somebody for sure well maybe we can speak to the right people
8:28
but that would be nice yeah and and also remember folks that uh
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if you don't a lot of days a lot of people nowadays don't have cable TV Etc go on YouTube on the following Monday
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every Monday right now so the cycle of January February and end of March every Monday our show moves over to our
8:46
YouTube channel um so you can see the entire episode on YouTube as well wow so look at and now I wonder what the
8:52
quality level would be on YouTube versus on say Global which you know Saturday
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morning 8:00 uh TV like that HD I think it's pretty it depends on your monitor maybe on your
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but you're watching it if you're watching on a computer like a Macbook or something I think it'd be very good quality well that's what I have watched
9:08
our stuff on it is good I mean if you're watching it on a phone might be a little tough to get all the detail but I never figure that out I was watching on the
9:15
plane last week I was watching people viewing movies y for like two
9:21
hours yeah on their phone like how do you how do you even see it well you know what I guess it's better than staring at
9:27
the back of a seat right why not just have a nap maybe they can't sleep is always good on a plane especially oh
9:34
yeah that nice roaring oh I love you know I don't want to get off topic because we're short of time but I can my
9:40
best possible sleeping environment is on a plane when the plane is on the tarmac
9:46
yeah when before you take it off waiting to lift off like I miss pretty much 95% of the takeoff on every it's good if you
9:53
can miss that then you're through it that's sometimes it wakes me up so then I get ah damn it I lost man I just thing
9:59
I up you know the lady is saying sir would you like coffee or something oh
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anyways uh we talked about the show uh store uh fishing Canada store we talked
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about that winter sale going on there right now by the way those of you interested uh listener feedback oh boy
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speaking of YouTube Wayne 306 30 out 6 that's a gun oh is that 306
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well no maybe maybe you never know but that's what the I think no 30 OD 6 306
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no I think I think it's 306 isn't it 3 306 yeah that's a caliber yeah yeah 308
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306 36 30 6 some people call it 30 6 for
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some reason I heard 30 means zero yeah so but it doesn't mean two zeros okay this is two this is Wayne with
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three2 30 what is 30 a then 30
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a 30 two zeros n it's like two
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it's like three uh fishing lure hooks things trouble hooks that are single
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hooks 30 out six come on now oh God by the way I sampled 30 out six some
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tequila well speaking of gunshots and you know I'm not I'm not a tequila Drinker by any means well Good Tequila's
11:21
good well I'm finding out more and more the good tequila is is better than the crap I drink oh hell yeah oh good
11:28
tequilas into nice Nick didn't get it to you did he no no it's Steve and I down in Orlando cuz Nick he's he's been
11:35
delving into some Tequilas Tequilas yeah yeah I got to tell you I know it's nice sipping you sip it sip it you can't bar
11:42
tequila anybody that's used to has never had good tequila you know that clear bar tequila is nasty you might as well
11:49
be drinking gasoline and rubbing alcohol cuz that's what it tastes like right you're doing that to get drunk and plastered and stupid whatever but this
11:56
stuff yeah your time was sipping Andy Deo remember Randy he was a connoisseur yes he was and we didn't appreciate him
12:02
at the time we go the heat of a a shoot to be the hottest shoot of the Year we'd all go in and order a cold beer and Andy
12:08
get a shot of tequila we could never figure out why what are you what you you have a cold beer no no this is what I
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want it was 1942 was the bottle uh Pon or was it the other one Don uh
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Julio there yeah I know I know what you're saying 1942 wow best they make I got to tell
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you this is not a obviously it's a free in a uh in a bar or something like that did you no in a liquor store I bought it
12:36
I bought a liquor how muchan dollars than American let's not let's move on
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with the program uh listener feedback Wayne Uh
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30006 on YouTube from YouTube and um on
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YouTube and he uh says uh really like the show and he's talking about fishing
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Canada early season ESO which just our first show air and it's on YouTube right
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now right now as we speak he says really like the show but guys dot dot dot use a
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wire Trace when pike fishing and put that Pike gag in the trash he could have
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might as well have said there's a bunch of that's right is what he's saying yes uh it's something for the
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from the Dark Ages so let's address this I'll take the first part cuz I'm
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responsible for that you're responsible for the second part of this right so first part is uh when he says use a wire
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Trace we're going to make an assumption you mean a leader yeah I looked I looked it up quickly and it said it had showed
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pictures of leaders okay so Trace as a leader what he's referring to is that on
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uh some Pike shows like the one that aired recently uh I I don't use the
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leader all the time I'm I'm I'm I there's some baits that I do believe a
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leader uh especially a heavy leader will um take away the action of the lure and
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so I just don't feel comfortable with it it also um because of all the hardware
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on a leader unless you make your own which we do quite often there's Hardware on either end and
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and it weighs the lure down so it's fishing in a different part of the water column than I'd like to there's a
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million reasons why I don't use a leader I'm trying to use it more often
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because Peter really frowns when I'm I give him poo poo when I'm in the boat without a leader on yes having said that
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though having said that how many big Pike have I caught without a leader absolutely how many how many big Pike
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have we caught jig fishing for walleye a single little jig and you catch a 40 incher that's right so it doesn't mean
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that you're going to lose the fish um I think maybe what Wayne
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30006 maybe might be saying is that when you don't have a wire trace or leader on
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your line you going to have to fight the pike more in order to get it in and uh
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released yeah baby it maybe is that what he's thinking you know it certainly has nothing I don't think it should have
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anything to do with the the success rate of getting the fish and and that lure
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that Angelo was using at that time is a suspending lure so one of the one of the
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worst things you can do with a suspending lure is hang a great big chunk Hardware on it because what answer says it may be deeper than whatever but
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it also it can make that lure supposed to sit like that can pull it down it's sitting like that and it's sinking slow and this great big giant weed leader is
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going down more so there's a lot of effect on that lure that you're using for sure so I I get that part of it and
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it's it's kind of a 50/50 right you need a leader for those teeth but you don't need a leader because that lure won't work properly so it's a judgment call
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right so you're not killing anybody by doing it right I didn't think so but
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Wayne would disagree with you second part of Wayne's problem uh the second part of Wayne's problem is and put that
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Pike gag in the trash so the pike gag is obviously it's a jaw spreader now I just
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daed on me I just listened to you say that is it possible that Wayne is from um Europe or or maybe even englanduk
16:19
because both those like the trace and sounds very British doesn't it
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the pike gag sound very British mhm that's what I thought that was my first thought hey and if so uh thank you very
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much uh Wayne for yeah watching our product watching yeah yeah and we're just trying to explain so the jaw
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spreaders so Wayne and that so we rarely use the jaw spreaders but we do use them I will say that on Pike we don't fish
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musky a whole lot so we've never had the need for for Jos Spurs on muskies and usually the baits are a lot bigger in
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that case that that bait that as was that same suspending bait another version of it that an had on was a small
16:56
bait and that Pike literally engulf that bait completely into his mouth like I
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mean it was right in past the teeth and etc etc so do you do you cut that line
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and just leave that lure in the fish's mouth no okay no so okay now you're saying open the fish's mouth up so what
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do you use a par of pliers stick the pair of pliers Jam them in there and open the pliers and you're going to
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break his teeth you're going to break the Pike's teeth by doing that for sure so we do is we find a time when the pike
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will open his mouth a bit you take the spreaders and you don't push it to the limit of the spreaders you push it to the limit of when the fish just is not
17:30
going to bite down on it because there's you can go too hard for sure on it you be careful with that you slowly take
17:36
your pliers in you just Lodge the hook pull it out and you let off the the spreaders and to us it's I mean to me I
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don't know I'm sure Angel agree with me it's probably the most humane way of doing it you know what I mean so you're
17:49
getting that you're not leaving that cuz that bait in his mouth is going to eventually cause a problem you got two treble hooks in there plus 5 in of bait
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it's probably going to create a problem so we feel uh we got to get it out of there and the easiest way for us without
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holding the fish cranking under his Gill raker and holding the jaw like that and then an shoves the pliers in there like
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that I don't know I think I think it's dangerous yeah it's dangerous for the
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fish and the humans exactly so just it's just our our way of I don't know whether I like the normal ones those you know
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just a straight wire and you and you open it up and it's got two they should have a flat surface on some of them do
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there are some that are made have a flat on the top and and opens like that and even I it might even have rubberized ones yeah that would that would work you
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have to have some way of holding uh Pike's Jaws open while you're maybe one
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maybe one of those click grippers with that but you'd have to force his jaw down you know know those those grippers
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you can pick up fish with but that's got to be got on the jaw yeah problematic
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you I don't know it's hard it's a hard one and I mean we don't use a JW spread un we absolutely need it we have it on
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the boat just you know like once or twice you know a season even that's how
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how rare we try and release the fish in the water um we do pick it up
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periodically but we do our best to minimize the impact that we have on it if it's a gigantic fish and in the case
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of Pete's talking about the bait is not visible yeah you you you got to do it
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there's a little tip for anybody that is using a jaw spreader I'm on a smaller fish I've done this before I've got this
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put the JW spraders in got the lure Ro that perfect like that and I threw the fish back with the jaw spreader still in them in the don't do that remember don't
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do that I've done it before so yeah oh God I think it's happened to a few people
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so all right thank you uh uh 306 appreciate that uh podcast Network
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highlights this week uh Under The Canopy gets the big Jerry o we saw him
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yesterday wet I love that name wet jio uh episode 2 three turkey tail is
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actually Harvest Time number four I don't know what that means do you know yeah he's doing like a harvest time thing where he tells you like what's in
20:07
like what's uh in right now that you can go out and harvest so he does those think once a month all right so this is
20:13
episode 23 though I do have that correct right um and it's all about this thing
20:19
called turkey tail mushroom never heard of it you no there's so many fungi that we've never
20:25
heard of and they all have different appli Jerry he's quite a Fung he's a fun guy for who knows about fun guy a fun
20:32
guy who knows about fun guy and uh this particular one is uh about turkey tail
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and tells you its medicinal benefits uh including uh helps balance blood sugar
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levels okay it's good for diabetics I'm assuming it could be good great for diabetics it boosts uh athletic
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performance Dean Dean Taylor fight viral and bacterial
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infections that's what I'm all about you still you still got bacterial infections I know and it reduces fatigue which
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there you you there you go buddy's got us we all got to get on the old turkey tail yeah a little turkey tail I believe
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in Jerry's studying him he says may help all these things so he's never Jerry does not ever say okay it's going to
21:13
help it's going to help but you know what you know what to me it's kind anything that says is going to is know
21:19
they all say whether it's medicine or herbal uh Solutions such as this it may
21:25
because not all of our metabolisms are the same our bodies biologically speaking we're different right I just
21:31
started my I just told you I just started my acid reflux medicine and it's and it's working see there you go so it
21:38
does work now I may take that and it might not work right right I there's I had to experiment to find the right one
21:43
so yeah it's kind of like a booking an airline uh ticket it may it may some of
21:50
I'm sure there are people who have taken off on time got home once in a I'm sure but you know it might not people like me
21:58
we don't tend to so that's our turkey tail there Dean yep it looks just like one well you know what I've seen lots of
22:03
that it's on the side of trees right go up on the seen lots of that stuff I didn't had no idea it was edible reach
22:09
down and uh eat you some well I wonder if now maybe you can't eat it raw maybe you have to process it or I think there was a warning in that podcast that
22:15
there's a bunch of mushrooms that look like it that you should not be eating right which is typically the case with a
22:20
lot of these be careful I would not I don't think even if somebody told me that's a great mushroom to eat I don't
22:26
know if I could do that out in the wild you know what I mean it's just so uh gray that area the bad stuff
22:31
versus good stuff versus Poison I don't know all the more reason why you need to listen to uh Under The Canopy on Outdoor
22:39
Journal Radio podcast Network it's one of the leading programs in its category
22:45
why because it's very informative uh it's a high-end product and you might be
22:52
able to differentiate between a good Fung guy and a bad fun gu guy there you go that
23:00
Jerry smart Jerry's a smart man in the news Mr Bowman what do we have in the news this week we have blacklegged ticks
23:07
which are deer ticks uh the population is rising in Saskatchewan so I had no idea that Saskatchewan even had it's not
23:15
populations Rising they have discovered them right in Saskatchewan they never in
23:20
the history of mankind has there been evidence that the blacklegged deer tick
23:27
was in s well now they have found it they interesting way they they sample how
23:33
they found it they drag a cloth great through the trails where people or dogs
23:39
would normally walk or run and play and whatnot and they drag uh these cloths
23:44
that are wool and then at the end of it they open it up and they check out all of the things that are on it and lo and
23:51
behold for the first time ever they have found a blacklegged deer tick which is
23:57
not good uh for the folks in the province of saskat which leads me to believe if they're in Saskatchewan then
24:04
they got to be in the neighboring provinces too don't they well if not they're moving obviously they're moving
24:10
right if they weren't in Saskatchewan they I mean we know Ontario right now is is at a horrible level Southern Ontario
24:16
is a horrible level of of ticks black leg ticks so and then I I'm assuming
24:22
Manitoba is probably up there pretty good too right now and now you're talking Saskatchewan is it going to go
24:27
to Alber is it going to go to BC is it Etc ET is it going to move west like that so um
24:33
are they moving East I mean you're talking about new land the mosquitoes and black flies that they have I mean there's a bug problem there with that
24:39
and obviously we're going to be talking about this a little later on with uh Michael Dr Michael twist because he's
24:44
into this whole ecological impact of global warming uh but um Emily Jenkins
24:51
professor of microbi biology at the Western College of veterinary medicine
24:56
said ticks are are emerging across North America lately with the black Leed variety showing up in places it hasn't
25:03
before she said climate change could be the factor yeah that's going to come up
25:08
later for sure you know what I mean y she goes on to say we've never had to work with identifications over Christmas
25:14
break before so that uh identify or definitely was a weird thing to find in
25:20
23 also here's a weird one that I found is that the species usually hits his rides on migratory Birds right you know
25:27
what I never we always thought I didn't de yeah deer mice mice was the
25:33
problem correct me if I'm wrong but the way it works is this so the
25:40
deer is not the vector deer is simply the transport Transportation mechanism
25:47
for black Leed tick the mouse is the actual Vector correct I believe so yeah
25:53
that's how it works so if a tick bites a mouse who made have Lyme disease then
26:00
obviously from that point that tick is a time bomb just waiting to land on the
26:06
human and spread Lyme disease the mouse on the other hand that's carrying Lyme disease has no ill effects of it at all
26:13
at all the deer which we thought forever was actually the vector is not the Deer
26:18
is simply a transportation unit like a goose like a goose like a goose like
26:24
migratory bird whatever and so uh what about bears oh yeah they're loaded with loaded yeah but it just doesn't affect
26:31
that so wolves I'm assuming every animal will fur every animal that moves in that
26:36
in the bush moose everything got to have a but the mouse is the only one the
26:42
mouse is the actual cause of the deer tick getting Lyme disease that it then
26:48
in turn spreads to humans how bizarre think about how bizarre that is so so technically I guess if a mouse bit you
26:56
and was able to to puncture your skin I had that once puncture your skin yeah or
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yeah oh yeah bad one well I had to go get tet in a shot so wow you know what I mean yeah when I was a kid so if that
27:08
Mouse had have had lime disease lime disease you could have been infected for sure for sure we used to turn we used to
27:14
go to this farmers field and turn over the hay bales and and you'd see the mice scurrying around and we used to catch
27:20
them and it got stupid we catch them with their bare hands then finally one bit me says okay wait we might want to use gloves if we're going to do this in
27:26
the future stupid kids anyways uh something to keep an eye on for sure and
27:31
for you folks in Saskatchewan uh you need to be Vig an eye open because it it's not good it can
27:37
get ugly and they mentioned in that story that they were identifying ticks over Christmas I got one this year in
27:44
December I got one last year in December too how the hell do you do that I think they came in on my dog like when we take
27:51
came out for a walk he gets probably four or five every time we go out that's insane now you say four or five as if
27:57
you were taking inventory in a safe how do you know it's four or five oh we
28:02
don't it's four or five that come off them when we Brash and yeah it's it's
28:07
brutal wow that's it's bad this this part of Ontario this this east east of us basically that you know cober is but
28:14
Brighton Campbellford and on E the napan Mikey tells me about all kind he goes
28:19
every year he gets infested with them yeah he has to go shower his wife has to pick him off him he's G he's gone on the
28:25
medicine like you did many times wow anytime it's crazy it really iszy we got to keep an eye on that for sure anyways
28:32
that's all that wonderful story is uh sitting in the news at fishing canada.com as we speak go in there
28:39
inform yourself and uh and beware and while you're there get into that contest
28:44
like what are you waiting for yeah people from skatan can win right Dean they've won yeah they've won before we
28:50
we've sent gifts out too scatch one you of course there you go of course fan question of the week subm subed by Ray
28:59
o who Ray o o o u o u g r o o o that's a
29:08
very unique name as well he from Manitoba by the way you just mentioned Manitoba that's right I did Ray uh
29:15
submitted his question via email and uh you too by the way can do the same uh
29:20
send your questions to info fishing canada.com info@
29:26
fishing.com that will get uh sent or you can Instagram and Facebook Etc but that
29:33
will get sent to our very own Dean Taylor who in turn will print that off
29:38
on uh 80 stock white paper just like this and then he will put that question
29:43
in a barrel in a drum actually it can't be called a barrel it's a drum 45 G drum
29:48
well because a barrel is traditionally made out of wood this drum is definitely metal you could play the calypso music
29:54
on it he's got an old whiskey barrel that he uses yeah yeah yeah yeah it was all I remember when he brought it in it was
30:00
all rusted up and everything cleaned it all up painted it up uh put fan questions on it and doed it yeah and a
30:07
bunch of it is not stop saying that anyway send your uh question to
30:15
fish info at fishing Canada and uh we will endeavor to answer it for you much
30:21
like Ray's question today from Manitoba Ray from Manitoba so let's start this
30:27
one without the question first first off Manitoba has a uh a program out there called The Master Angler oh I love that
30:34
and in which you can get a certificate if you catch a certain sized fish in Manatoba so raised question is when
30:42
when's the best time to Target Master 89 cm to 35 in in Brackets lake
30:48
trout Lakers so so yeah he's specifically referring to the master
30:56
anger he wants the biggies right just just a quick backup on that award it's
31:02
been around forever I remember my first trip to Manitoba um I don't know what lake it
31:07
was somewhere mine was at knee Lake when I first discovered this before even knee but knee was certainly one but but yeah
31:13
I remember them uh talking about master they talk about right and I thought it was such a great program at the time
31:20
they basically anybody who fishes in the province of Manitoba obviously legally meaning you have to have a license uh
31:27
are eligible to enter fish in the program and it's not a fish it's all
31:33
fish that hit a certain um there's size 30 species on this list here in front of me 30 species that you can uh that you
31:41
can submit for master angler it's a great program and I thought it was Back 40 years ago when I first uh was exposed
31:48
to I thought was probably one of those little tourism things that come and go but it was kind of cool well you know
31:53
what it's still going to this day they have large M bass on that I didn't know they had large larou in Manitoba I was
31:58
not aware of it it's on the list I don't know maybe why would they though why would we be surprised that Largemouth
32:04
made right on the cusp of Ontario right it's got him in skatch onean yeah we got him in Ontario that's right so there
32:11
must be anyways uh going back to so big Lakers I mean for the for the lack of
32:17
experience that I've had I'm not a real lake trout guy but I would my first
32:22
choice would be the the last two weeks of the of your season so wherever you
32:29
are in Manitoba when these big females are getting ready to move up on the shols to spawn I would say that's there
32:35
when they're at the heaviest so we talk weight a lot of times but that means obviously heavier or longer etc etc um
32:42
like nippan for example Chad up at Lake nippan uh Past Lake cottages he goes out in late SE uh September 30th is our
32:49
closer up there he goes out in the last two weeks of September and he says he just catches giant after giant after
32:54
giant so if you can find time it where you've miss the males they go up first I believe and get into those females um to
33:01
me that would be probably the best suggestion I could give you on that one
33:06
so yeah if you're looking for weight but the master angler award is not based on
33:13
weight it's based on length great but you're looking and that's the biggest fish the biggest females well yeah but
33:19
I'll tell you look at that look at that damn Master right there Jee just kind of
33:25
scared me with the size of that fish in the season uh in most northern Lakes
33:31
Manitoba for the most part it's fishable lake trout Lakes are would be considered
33:37
Northern compared to us ice out is the is prime time because there's that that window of opportunity when the fight ice
33:44
first goes out if it coincides with the opening um man oh man you can get into
33:49
some big fish shallow and I I don't know whether they would be longer than the
33:57
late season fish but I'll tell you what they are is more apt to jump on your
34:03
bait that time of day or that type of year because they're they're chowing down on everything so and through the
34:08
ice would be a good one too I mean obviously a lot of people fishing through the ice now you're you're sitting right on top of these Giants I
34:15
mean the guys in Northwest Territories Ryan Gregory they they catch monsters and I mean they got big ones in the open
34:21
water but now they can concentrate their spot right they can say okay here's where I'm going to fish today and I'm going to work this little area
34:27
I I think more important than the season or the time is the location if you're
34:33
looking for a personal look at that speaking of personal best what the
34:39
exactly if you're looking for um ni nice portable garment you got there buddy
34:44
thank you I work out you're welcome good for you it show thank you uh location is
34:51
the most important thing in my opinion it doesn't the time of year is not as
34:56
relevant as location if you want to catch a personal best or in this case a
35:02
Master Angler uh lake trout then you need to scout for your location you need
35:08
to study location and one of the best places to look is at the master angler
35:13
Awards because they publish every year they publish their all their Master
35:18
Angler Awards and all you have to do and they tell you what lake they're on and so all you have to do is figure out yeah
35:25
all you have to do is narrow it down used to do that like in the 80s and early 90s if we were going into Manitoba
35:32
we used to actually look at that why wouldn't you if there are more master angler wward fish coming out of Lake X
35:39
versus Lake B then why wouldn't I put myself on Lake X regardless of the time of year so I think location because
35:47
genetically there are there are uh lakes that have the genetics on that Lake for
35:52
whatever reason we've talked about it for walleye but lake trout are no different where they just are a superior
35:58
fish they're bigger fish whatever strain started if you know the movements of
36:04
your fish they should be able to follow them spring summer fall and winter we mentioned and mentioned spring I
36:09
mentioned fall and then we sat through the ice my biggest lake tro came Midsummer and that was in Saskatchewan
36:15
that was and I was trolling 100t deep of water you know with the three-way sevel uh rig and I got a a absolute massive
36:22
Beast biggest lro so it can happen at any time but and Hope I hope we answered
36:27
somewhat of his question I don't know Ray hopefully it helped you somewhat we try the best we can don't forget if you
36:32
have a question you would like to uh ask us submit it to info@ fishing
36:38
[Music]
36:48
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our legs free from Invaders and don't let them [Music]
37:55
loose there's an adventure just outside these walls it's something you'll hate to leave and can't wait to get back to
38:03
it's a place where memories are made and bonds are forged for some it's hitting the trails for others it's a weekend at
38:10
the lake it's a place full of campfires and quality time this year takes some time to reconnect with friends family
38:17
and nature no matter what Adventures await you Coleman has the gear you need
38:22
visit Coleman canada.ca to gear up today the outside is calling answer the
38:33
call how did a Small Town sheet metal mechanic come to build one of Canada's most iconic Fishing lodges I'm your host
38:40
Steve NS Wiki and you'll find out about that and a whole lot more on the Outdoor
38:46
Journal radio Network's newest podcast Diaries of a lodge owner but this
38:52
podcast will be more than that every week on Diaries of a lodge owner owner I'm going to introduce you to a ton of
38:59
great people share their stories of our trials tribulations and
39:04
Inspirations learn and have plenty of laughs along the way Meanwhile we're sitting there bobbing along trying to
39:10
figure out how to catch a bass and we both decided one day we were going to be
39:16
on television doing a fishing show my hands get sore a little bit when I'm reeling in all those bass in the
39:21
summertime but that's might be for more fishing than it was punching from you so
39:26
confidently you said hey Pat have you ever eaten a drum find Diaries of a lodge owner now on Spotify Apple
39:34
podcasts or wherever you get your podcast all right let's get on to the
39:39
main subject matter here this week uh joining us now is Dr Michael twist uh he
39:44
is Dean of science at Aloma University and also co-chair of uh winter science
39:50
working group with the international Joint Commission but best of all he's an avid Outdoorsman and loves to do what we
39:56
do welcome to the program Michael well thank you very much uh Angelo and uh and nice to see you and
40:03
Pete today well thank you appreciate it and Al goo University that's in Sue St Marie correct that's right s St Marie
40:10
Ontario okay he probably knows Carol Caputo he might Carol knows everybody you never
40:16
know she's our tourism uh Northern Ontario tourism lead um that we've been
40:22
working with for it seems like a 100 Years of course Carol will not appreciate me saying I hate you for that
40:27
what is the status I've been here for 11 months oh I was in Upstate New York for
40:33
20 years oh wow and but I grew up in Northern Ontario so I'm kind of like coming home oh nice nice nice what is
40:40
the status of Dean in a university are you like the the uh boss the the big man
40:45
the head cheese middle management mid management okay I'm the guy who's T in
40:50
half oh boy ah I gotcha okay so uh Michael the Genesis of this episode and
40:57
why we got you on here today um as you know and I'm sure a lot of people are scratching their heads although this
41:03
weekend um might seem a little different but we haven't had any real cold weather
41:09
we haven't had in Southern Ontario we have no ice and in fact um according to
41:16
um Dean did you put this together for us I put it together for you thank you so according to Dean the dean of all Deans
41:22
dean of all Deans the dean of all Deans across the Great Lake which is sort of our measuring stick uh we had
41:31
less than 4% less than 0.4% um of the uh water uh was hard the
41:38
rest was uh was still uh no ice surface at all which is pretty unusual uh
41:45
certainly not in the last couple of years but historically speaking uh we'd have normally 9% of the Great Lakes by
41:52
January 1st would be covered with ice and uh obviously you know we look at it as
41:58
Anglers and say oh man I'm not going to be able to go ice fishing this year and yeah but we sometimes don't really think
42:05
it through and see what the real implications could be so we reached out
42:11
to you and we appreciate you joining us today maybe you can shed a little bit more light at what the long-term Ram
42:16
ramification might be from this trend which obviously we're in okay yeah well
42:24
thanks for your opportunity to uh to talk about a bit about my uh my research
42:30
area um so I'm a I'm a dean of science here at Algoma University um and I
42:35
Define myself as a Great Lakes researcher okay so I've been studying the Great Lakes for over 25 years now um
42:44
and so when we talk about ice you know just to to develop some context here um
42:50
the Great Lakes are what we call geologically Young okay okay was like 10,000 to 6,000
42:57
years ago they're ice covered wow kilometers of ice wow so we've come a
43:05
long way baby um and the problem is though that as the Lakes change over time um we
43:14
have to adapt with them and and we have adapted with them the one of the problems though as you've
43:20
probably heard before is that there are some changes that occur in the environment that we're
43:27
not ready for you know we don't we're not we're not prepared for the changes and so something like ice cover is is
43:34
one of those changes um another one is things like you know having tixs and Saskatchewan you know were they always
43:41
there before yeah you know all of a sudden hey I don't know that what I got a disease now you know um all of a
43:47
sudden it's more costly you got to pay for all those medicines for your dogs and whatnot but getting back to ice um
43:53
this is something that has a big impact and you guys definitely are aware of the recreational end of things right so
44:01
impacts businesses things like that um it also impacts uh things like
44:07
how people access the water um I was uh talking to some hockey
44:13
referees in s St Mary Michigan on the other side of the of the river last weekend because I ref so that's my
44:19
contact with ice um and you know few months ago they're talking about hunting and whatnot you know showing the Bucks
44:25
they're getting and then just last weekend they're showing these big pictures of pick roll and whatnot and
44:30
they're talking about how this one Bay where normally they're when there's
44:36
enough ice they go further out and they get better success you know because there's different color water that
44:41
they're talking about um and so and different times of day and so someone
44:47
who's not aware of that knowledge might hear
44:52
someone say oh yeah you got to get it where the water is this color and might V further out on the ice and you know
44:58
have an accident uh when I was in Upstate New York uh I would hear
45:03
periodically about the problems on Lake Champlain with folks getting out there and then losing trucks and um sometimes
45:11
people lose their lives you know because of unstable ice conditions and so that's there's definitely a safety
45:17
concern and up here um just on the just Northwest of here on bachana Bay um
45:24
there's the bachana First Nation and folks there are complaining that the
45:29
lack of ice is causing them to lose a bit of their culture wow their language
45:35
yeah yeah yeah so you know these guys have their technology for fishing under the ice you know with Gil nuts and
45:41
whatnot and it's you have to have certain nice conditions Etc and you know
45:46
when you guys talk about jargon and stuff like leaders and jaw spreaders you know there's a language that you know
45:53
it's simple to say and in their case they there certain words that they use to explain the technology behind fishing
46:00
and the seasons and whatnot and so when it's not safe to go out they're not going to go out and so that little kid
46:08
who has the opportunity to go out with his uncle or go out with his grandfather who know the language he misses that
46:14
opportunity and so he's off doing something else you know and so there's
46:19
uh there's a lost lost opportunity there so there's there's a lot of impacts you know
46:24
it's they never even dawned on me that whole part of it just I mean that goes to say not just with the uh Native
46:32
Community there but also anybody because if you are annually you know doing the
46:38
trip with Grandpa and and Uncle Jim out on the ice when you don't have that things change right Mak a skating rink a
46:45
little ice rink for every night nightly skating for the community or something like that yeah we don't even think of that yeah you know that's interesting
46:51
yeah so you you lose those opportunities and there that lack of connection you know we talk talk a lot about you know
46:57
kids are pulled away from um traditional things because of the attraction of You Know video games and things like that
47:04
and so if they lose an opportunity to do something that their family does yeah they lose the they lose that technology
47:10
and that the ability to transfer not only the the recreational experience but also the other values that come along
47:16
with that hopefully good ones right um from a scientific point of view there's also some pretty interesting things that
47:22
can happen as well um folks at Clarkson University where I was in Upstate New
47:28
York um are responsible for measuring all the contaminants and fish for the uscpa throughout the Great Lakes right
47:35
and what they found over the past decades is the concentration of things like pcbs are going down down down down
47:41
down good story that's good yeah yeah except that it stopped they know that
47:48
the flux or the the amount of pcbs going into the Lakes has been reduced and should be being buried in the
47:54
sediments except that they stabilize and then start to climb up again and what's
47:59
going on is it changes because of zebra muscles and they think no not because of that it's connected to they they they
48:07
concluded lack of ice cover in the Nearshore environment wow so yeah so
48:12
what's happening is your winter storms are coming in and they're kicking up the mud oh right yeah and that's
48:19
resuspending and getting into the food chain it's getting into your fish W and so we're doing a good thing by cutting
48:25
back uh pcbs we're cleaning up contaminated areas right but there's that Legacy that history that that's
48:32
still biting us and it's connected to climate change lack of ice cover wow you
48:38
know what for people just very quickly interject here for people that are listening that have never experienced
48:43
the great lakes or seen the Great Lakes you have no idea of such a monster they can be when the wind like Michael was
48:50
talking about when the wind comes up we live on Lake Ontario here Michael and and when that wind comes from the south south Southwest even Southeast it is
48:57
unbelievable for it's it's a sight to see and that the there's white caps as far as you can see and it doesn't even
49:03
look that big you get close to that Lake those are 68 and maybe even bigger Footers it's huge so what he's talking
49:09
about lifting up that sediment that's I mean it's doing at a high paac level huge so they're unreal and so and so
49:17
when the ice is formed that doesn't happen obviously right the longer the ice is on the less for the shoreline at
49:23
least yeah right so I've been out on ice breakers on on Lake Erie and we've had
49:28
40 knot wins oh wow and you could and you could have played
49:33
pool really that stable yeah because we locked in the ice yeah yeah and so the
49:40
ice actually protects the um the lake from uh from the wind essentially wow
49:47
and so it's called stratify like you guys know where the thermaline is right right get your line to the thermocline
49:52
um in the winter time it's it's inverted right so when water gets to 4 deg it
50:00
sinks when it gets colder than four it starts to float until the point in which you got ice which is
50:08
solid and colder than you know we we talked about this on last week's podcast
50:14
about the warm B of water being down there see doctor just verified that well see we don't lie to people we tell the
50:21
truth now what's what's the difference now we got summer time spring summer and
50:26
fall when there obviously the wind is going to do the same thing on those windy days it's going to be ripping up
50:32
the sediment etc etc versus the winter uh is there a difference in that timing
50:38
yeah it sure is like what happened last weekend with that wind and storm you don't get that kind of energy coming in
50:45
the summertime you'll get brief storms you don't get those sustained day long high winds that's like hurricane season
50:52
the winter time you get that pretty frequently okay um and the other thing that happens in the summertime is that
50:58
that warm water on the top the warm surface layer actually protects down below and so you'll get all sorts of
51:04
currents in the surface waters because of the wind and where that surface water meets the
51:10
shore that's actually you can get you know um wave action resuspending eroding
51:16
shorelines and all that but down deep under the thermocline it's
51:21
calm no matter what's happening up top huh and so there's there's the the the
51:26
the surface waters and the ice protect the Lakes um that's that's interesting
51:33
yeah yeah and and what I could mention is you know things like the time of year
51:40
and and fish reproduction so some fish you know spawn at different times of year right and and
51:48
um things like white fish which is really tasty yeah um that uh that tends to
51:56
spawn late in the late in the winter and he needs ice cover and
52:02
so um actually I'll correct that I don't know if it's if it's early winter or
52:07
late winter um but you know because I study phyto in the really small things so you might want to talk to a fish
52:13
biologist next but anyway I do know that they they they they they they spawn and they lay eggs in the winter time and
52:20
what happens is they lay them on these shs usually in protected areas like
52:25
bment whatnot and so th that those are usually ice covered this time of year
52:31
and when they're not what happens is those big deep waves um can reach the bottom because the temperature is the
52:37
whole same if there's no ice and uh and that can bash the eggs around um and if
52:43
they do hatch um the little lar get bashed around as well because under the ice it would be pretty very
52:50
quiescent calm um but under no ice cover um they get they get beat up are there
52:56
any studies that uh we could uh be made aware of that that might show just how
53:02
impactful that is on uh on on the spawn and on you know the the next season or I
53:08
guess it'd be three or four years down the road when we would see it right as anglish exactly so you would see a sort
53:14
of a a missing age class right be be reduced and you go oh my fishing fishing
53:20
is really lousy this year right because of something that happened you know four or five we forgot about that right we as
53:27
angers we about that think we suck what are we doing we can't catch them we do
53:34
yeah so you know that that's the whole idea that that that knowledge if you're out in the water like you guys are you
53:40
can start put it together all that information sharing stories with other folks you know and then you start
53:46
understanding a bit more about how the environment responds to yeah to a
53:51
changing to a changing climate yeah Michael um as I told you at the beginning I'm fascinated with the whole
53:58
food chain process and and microscopic little life forms are the ones that you know really they're they're the Genesis
54:05
of our angling opportunities that we have because without that we'd have no game Fish let's talk about that for just
54:12
a moment and how this uh rather warm winter is going to have an effect on
54:20
that um I can tell you some some some observ that we've made on Lake Erie okay
54:27
okay so we started going out on Lake Erie in 27 2007 uh we get on a Canadian Ice Breer
54:34
called the Griffin and uh we go out with them and that's where that's where you were
54:40
playing Billiards that's where your P you could have so could have and that
54:46
ball did not sway one no no lean to the table what's up perfect
54:53
shot go ahead sorry couldn't help that one that's good that's good uh so we we
54:58
were at every year up to 2017 almost 10 years um and I think it was
55:04
2012 um which was near ice free um and what happened was the type of algae that
55:11
we saw was quite different and so when we went out in 27
55:16
2007 um we wanted to know what's happening out on the lakes in the winter time because for the most part most of
55:24
the time we were able to access the middle of the Lakes is when those EPA vessels the department of fishers and
55:31
oceans vessels are out and that's usually summertime spring to late summer
55:37
they don't sample in the in the wintertime and so when I was at Crown Metropolitan University back
55:43
in 2001 actually just after 911 we ended up getting uh a week of ship time on
55:51
Lake Erie it was the last week of the of the year and they said are you sure you want to go out then I saides and so we
55:58
went out and it was remarkable the water looked very different in East BAC and East Bas usually nice and clear it was
56:05
very chalky looking um we spent you know the week just kind of hiding behind uh
56:12
Long Point because if we went out on the lake we wouldn't be able to do the work because the waves were so much um but
56:18
that was interesting and that really piqu our interest in getting out in the solid winter and so starting 2007 and on
56:24
W we'd go out um and the first time we went out in 2007 with the ice breaker crunching through the ice and we started
56:31
off down in Amherstburg on the Detroit River yeah and as we moved out into the
56:37
lake we could see this brown Water I'm going to show you this this piece of leather it's brown okay and it looked
56:44
like you know prop wash the sediment shipping channel shall enough the ship's big enough um but then we got into the
56:52
middle of the lake where it's like 26 meters deep and we'd see these patches of of algae dark like this under the
56:59
water well we didn't know it was algae at first and so we we said to the Coast Guard guys was like what's this they
57:04
said well that's uh we call that brown ice like oh thank
57:09
you but so uh we actually had some microscopes my colleagues had microscopes we we looked at it it's like
57:14
sure enough it's algae and it was algae growing in these long filaments and these algae are the types
57:21
that have a lot of uh lipids and oil in them and it helps them stay buoyant and
57:28
so they're actually right under the surface of the ice and so when the ship would go through you'd see all this
57:34
stuff get get rise to the top and we were just fascinated because we actually
57:39
were able to make those measurements for measuring the amount of chlorophyll that they have that they use for photosynthesis base of the food chain we
57:47
found out that it was higher than you get in the summertime on the Eerie sometimes and that was really
57:53
fascinating for us and and that got published that Drew a lot of attention so we kept going out every every every
57:59
winter to look at these these these uh these diatoms they're called type of type of
58:05
algae um in 2012 without any ice cover it look
58:11
totally different there was algae but there're these little little ones you know that don't have the same kind of
58:18
oil in them because they don't need it for buoyancy and so what may have happened
58:23
we don't have the proof of but we could hypothesize or or kind of guess that maybe the zupon little shrimps that eat
58:30
the algae might not have been getting the good oils that they need and so
58:36
these datom create certain types of uh what they call fatty acids they're essential for you may have heard about
58:42
them in your diet kind of thing you kind of need you kind of need them um and so do fish and so do zup plant and so do
58:48
algae um and so we could hypothesize that maybe that year the fish ultimately
58:53
that eat the Z Plankton might not have been as healthy and so maybe that affects the the year after you know
59:02
reproduction these are just questions that we have um so ice cover is back to
59:08
normal algae is good then ALG in a body of water is good in order to um keep the
59:15
zoo Plankton phytoplankton Etc well fed well algae algae are are type of
59:21
phytoplankton so algae are are phytop is made up of algae which are like related
59:28
to to plants and your grass and your trees outside right and then there's cyob bacteria which cause the uh the the
59:35
blue green algae blooms okay right um and so both of those together are called
59:40
phytoplankton okay and uh and yeah that's uh that's the base of the food chain um the the getting back to the
59:48
fatty acids those those are fish smell like fish because of Dions
59:55
oh wow yeah that's interesting okay you've heard of them putting uh you know
1:00:02
not dye but uh bits of uh actually they grow they grow algae and they put into
1:00:07
fish feed so when they feed them on Fish Farms they turn a color right and so that that the these these These are
1:00:13
these compounds that transcript the food chain just like some contaminants do so
1:00:19
um as it turns out there's there's a lot of things happening in the lakes in the wintertime
1:00:24
[Music] and the the you know that you know Bears might go to sleep in the winter time but
1:00:31
but there's fish don't right you know fish move around they still have to feed um they've got to have food their food
1:00:38
needs to eat and they need to eat algae now in the Great Lakes it's a bit
1:00:44
different than uh than smaller lakes and even streams and so if you're if you're
1:00:49
fishing trout the carbon that they're eating comes a lot from the Forest
1:00:54
around them because that's where the the the
1:01:00
most of the photosynthesis is occurring and so the leaves are falling in the water and then your insects are eating
1:01:07
that breaking down the leaves you know those little fish Little Fly RV and stuff like that and that's what the
1:01:12
trout you know hammer out in Lake Ontario I've been out there in October
1:01:19
middle of the lake I don't see a leaf anywhere right no kidding obviously
1:01:24
how does it work but you still have a lot of fish yeah and so in that case in the great
1:01:31
laks the Lakes themselves are supporting all that phytoplankton that production
1:01:37
that's that's the force there the phytoplankton datom the algae the S bacteria that's that's the forest in the
1:01:44
lake okay and that's the difference between big lakes and small lakes so
1:01:49
that's interesting with out ice cover is that
1:01:55
um is there a can we say that there's a lack of production at that level then
1:02:02
because of the movement of the water the wind the sediment all that stuff is that affecting that Plankton from reproducing
1:02:09
and you know feeding the next level that's a really good
1:02:15
question that's a good question um
1:02:20
because you know we do know that when there's no ice cover sing like gear that we see a lot of algae still um but
1:02:28
it's mixed all the way to the bottom and so and when it's turbid or
1:02:34
when it's cloudy because of wave action that means the light doesn't penetrate very deep right yeah you go onto a lake
1:02:41
like Lake Superior out here um in May your surface water could
1:02:48
be 60 to 80 meters deep and so when the wind blows those
1:02:55
algae go from the top where they see the light it's a nice clear water when you're down 80 M it's dark dark and they
1:03:03
might come back up again but it might be during the night and down they go again
1:03:09
and so the productivity in Lake Superior is really low because of how deep it is and how the algae cycle in a lake like
1:03:16
Lake ERI it's much more they spend much more time in the presence of light if it's not turbid right but because it's
1:03:24
so shallow it tends to get cloudy so the question you're asking is a really it's
1:03:30
a it's a good question it's complicated in other words in other words you don't have the answer do
1:03:36
you that's correct I don't I can hypoth please do that's funny uh because
1:03:44
I mean that's that's what we we live on that kind of information as Anglers
1:03:49
because we know that what we're harvesting and cultivating at the end of the day comes from microscopic life
1:03:58
forms that we have absolutely no idea that they even exist and I the more as
1:04:03
Anglers the more we understand about that food cycle the better we understand
1:04:08
it the easier it is for us to find fish and finding fish is the key right um and
1:04:15
we're constantly constantly looking for a leg up on that part of next little step that we didn't know before yeah for
1:04:21
example I will ask you now does this um
1:04:26
life form um does it is it affected by
1:04:31
temperature at all that's a really good question oh boy and this one this one I know the answer
1:04:37
to okay good so um I measure photosynthesis
1:04:43
right so you guys know what that is y and you can measure it in water as well because there's Bop Plankton that that
1:04:51
photosynthesize and when we went on to Lake Erie um we were measuring photosynthesis on the
1:04:58
ship and we found out that the rates of photosynthesis when the water is
1:05:04
0.1 to 4 degrees celsus is just as rapid
1:05:10
as it is when it's 20 degrees CSUS okay it's just as rapid and so it's the light
1:05:17
and the availability of nutrients that really drives it the algae in the winter time that live there they're called
1:05:23
osyra it's a pretty name you might want to call a dog that someday um and so
1:05:28
these alosra they Thrive at those low temperatures they're cryes they
1:05:34
psychrophiles they're your snowmobilers of the uh phytop planton world but when it gets to 10 degrees Celsius they start
1:05:41
dying and they make these spores that go to the bottom and they don't get resuspended until the fall winds comeing
1:05:48
and stir them back up again so you have both you have you have
1:05:53
warm water water and cool water uh sounds like right which which makes sense populations right but makes sense
1:06:01
if they are the base food for everything that we know that swims in water then it
1:06:07
makes sense that there is a version that will sustain itself under cold periods
1:06:13
and there's a version that sustains itself under warm water conditions and I I'm asking you these questions I'm
1:06:20
getting to I'm going to make my point here one of the most difficult uh um things as Anglers that we have to face
1:06:28
and more so in the northern part of U North America are are weather changes
1:06:35
you know we call them cold fronts when a cold front moves through the fishing generally gets a little more uh
1:06:42
complicated not difficult but a little more complicated and that's all based on
1:06:49
availability of food for the Predators and so so you know we're
1:06:54
constantly trying to figure that out that what is the key to that puzzle if
1:07:00
the food becomes more scarce and in this case that would be the phal plank and
1:07:05
say under cold water conditions might not be as prolific a breeder as it normally would which means that the next
1:07:12
level of Predator that feeds on it is not going to be as active and that means
1:07:18
the next level is not as active and then the fish that we're after are totally inactive at that point we're trying to
1:07:24
figure out constantly trying to figure out uh first of all what causes that and and that's why I'm asking you the
1:07:30
questions about temperature uh but more importantly you know how do you combat it if if you're
1:07:36
in that situation as an angler rather than just throw your hands up and say well I guess I ruined my weekend by
1:07:41
choosing this one to go fishing instead of painting the fence like my wife wanted me
1:07:47
to how do we figure this out help us figure out this puzzle yeah so you know
1:07:53
the Great Lakes are are are pretty massive um they don't change temperature
1:07:59
very quickly right they don't um in fact where we are in sus Marie you know the
1:08:05
what temperature here is sometimes a couple degrees Celsius warmer than just
1:08:10
north of here I say that sorry I'm going to interrupt you Michael on Lake Ontario it's the same thing and especially in the fall it's it's warmer than
1:08:18
everything else around it is even in the Bays that are connected to it Lake Ontario is warmer than a bay connected
1:08:23
to it it's weird it's exactly freaky exactly okay yeah yeah yeah because it
1:08:28
it takes a long time to cool off a long time to warm up right um the deeper the
1:08:35
lake the less it moves changes like Lake Erie people say oh it's the warmest Lake
1:08:41
and they say Lake Superior is the coldest right no no no no no Lake Yuri is both the coldest and the warmest Lake
1:08:49
wow because it generally would freeze over 100% most wins yeah yeah not but
1:08:54
not superior but Eerie wood because it cools off faster um so so when you got
1:09:00
weather changes coming in like that um in in the Great Lakes the temperature
1:09:07
is not going to be a factor as much as I would say wave action um and resuspension fish move
1:09:16
around um they don't like being bashed around I don't think although not quite
1:09:22
sure maybe they're maybe they're fish move around more M maybe they get closer to Shore or further offshore I'm not I'm
1:09:29
not quite certain I know that there's right now A Thing Called GLaDOS G
1:09:34
AOS and if you look it up they've got uh transponders and fish all across the Great Lakes and they're able to follow
1:09:41
fish and track where they move and so we know now that walleye pickerel uh move
1:09:47
around the Lakes you know they can they can follow they can they they they tag one and they seal it's down your Toledo
1:09:53
and it's it's on its way over to Buffalo and they move they move and so what they're
1:10:00
hoping to do they started collecting these data years ago but you know we need people like yourselves perhaps to
1:10:06
sort of provide information on you know well success certain times a day certain
1:10:11
times a year certain places under certain weather conditions we start putting that all
1:10:16
together um and that's actually important when you think about it because you know we have to respect um
1:10:23
fishing regulations right and so if all of a sudden you get so much information
1:10:29
that you kind of gain the system um you can you can hurt it right absolutely
1:10:36
like I don't shoot deer in the summertime for a reason right one I don't want to go to
1:10:41
jail secondly um it's you know you got to respect it right and and it goes back
1:10:48
to like that that relationship you have with the land and with the people that you're out there with
1:10:54
um yeah so that's uh that's my prizing for the day Michael in in this lack of
1:11:01
ice time right now is there a certain species of fish that's affected more than others the Great Lakes has a lot of
1:11:08
species of fish in it right is there anything in particular that's oh my God this is really bad for
1:11:14
them I'm most concerned with dick EG white fish um because you like to eat
1:11:19
them that's why Market oh my
1:11:25
yeah um and it's in such demand yeah I'm afraid of them because yeah they're such
1:11:31
a good food and even in Lakes where you might not be able to eat the salmon or the trout you might be able to eat them
1:11:38
because they're lower in the food chain right okay yeah are they not the deepest that's really valuable fish are they not
1:11:45
fish food are they not the deepest dwellers in their in their
1:11:50
environment that's um like over in uh Superior there's Cisco right which which are a form of um
1:11:59
lake trout that live really deep okay then the other lake trout kind of live further up high and the ones that live
1:12:05
way down deep are are narrower long take longer to to grow they look quite
1:12:10
different right um but white fish isn't traditionally a deep water fish oh white
1:12:16
white fish I think it goes all depths okay all right it cruises around where
1:12:21
it's it's a plank D'Or so it eats it eats Zoo Plankton and it also eats
1:12:27
um um insect larv that are on the bottom of the of the lake so that's kind of how
1:12:32
it it gets around it doesn't really eat other fish I don't believe unless it eats larval fish um which are you know
1:12:39
the baby ones that's interesting because we we ice fish for white fish and we use little jigging spoons which imitate a
1:12:46
minnow we use the little migs jigs which look kind of like a fish or all that it's interesting yeah oh yeah yeah maybe
1:12:52
maybe they do when you cut them open do you see little minnows in their guts you know what I've never kept too many I've only kept a couple in my life I don't
1:12:58
think I've ever you uh I've never looked yeah never left it's a good question
1:13:03
that's the first thing I do when I catch a fish find out what it's eating yeah that's that would be smart that would be smart abolutely
1:13:10
absolutely um than other than my sucker so this seems to be a period um
1:13:18
where historically um we look at it and say it's never well since we've been recording I believe in 1973 the uh the
1:13:27
amount of ice at the Great Lakes have been able to amass this seems to be almost the highest um or lowest
1:13:34
depending on how you're looking at it but um that we've ever seen is there a concern now that we've gotten here is
1:13:41
there a concern moving forward yeah yeah there is definitely um because we know
1:13:47
that climate change is is occurring globally um and to go back to
1:13:53
the ice age that I talked to about you folks about earlier M um geologically
1:14:00
speaking we're currently coming out of an Ice Age so technically we are still in an
1:14:07
ice age and if you want evidence of that you know look on Google Earth look at
1:14:14
Greenland look at Baffin Ireland elmir look at Antarctica there's ice okay yeah
1:14:20
there's times on the Earth where where those ice caps weren't there because it was so warm and so the earth goes back
1:14:26
and forth between having ice and losing ice and we're in the point now where we're losing ice except we're losing it really fast
1:14:34
we're losing it faster than ever seen before because the concentration of
1:14:40
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has gone up faster than we've ever known
1:14:46
before wow and so oh yeah it's yeah it's not news guys yeah yeah yeah it's scary
1:14:54
wow well it's it's scary in the the same sense you know that's it's you know time to you know talk with people when you're
1:15:01
out fishing about the importance of the environment and and what our responsibilities are towards it yeah
1:15:09
true um yeah good point and and people adapt you know people will adapt um but
1:15:16
how well they adapt depends on how fast they can adapt when you say fast when you say
1:15:23
fast I mean we're not talking fast to the point
1:15:29
where we could lose the polar caps you know in the next 20 30 years are we I
1:15:37
don't know I've heard someone say that um in sus Marie we're going to lose
1:15:43
maple trees in 50 years lose Maple luse maple trees but itn't get too warm for
1:15:49
maple trees you don't get maple trees in Virginia right wow Ontario you'll be
1:15:56
even warmer God so it is it is yeah something that uh that we can see within
1:16:02
a generation we can see these changes within a generation not not exactly so Angelo you you remember the 70s of
1:16:09
course well there were a little spotty he doesn't remember a lot of them M okay
1:16:14
the about one day a week he remembers definitely not the weekends and all right gentlemen and so um and so
1:16:23
you you remember pollution like a lot more than now right oh for sure trucks
1:16:28
burning you know let gas lean you know pipes dumping into lakes foamy stuff
1:16:34
occurring a lot of that's changed yeah and the lakes changed the water's changed and and and Pete you've probably
1:16:40
been to a lake and then go to a lake the same Lake you know a few years later and say oh that's different right for sure
1:16:47
for better for worse yeah um so you know change occurs um and it can change fast it can
1:16:54
change for the better um and it could change for the worse so we just have to be aware that's
1:17:01
uh I mean you go back to the 70s I mean we used to I can never I and I think of it probably more
1:17:09
often than I should but the way we had a total disregard for for this planet back
1:17:15
in the 70s and 80s I mean it was nothing to roll down your windows and throw your
1:17:20
yeah your trash out the car while you were driving around just finished eating something and you just throw it out the
1:17:27
paper and the garbage out the window it was it was horrific when you think about it uh certainly you know when you think
1:17:34
about it by today's standards but back then we didn't know we thought it was fine so you know no thought I grew up in
1:17:40
a Pulp and Paper Mill Town Northern Ontario and by the time smell in the air
1:17:46
nice little sent in the air smelled like money yeah yeah but by the time I got
1:17:51
into high school they actually cleaned it up you know we saw the changes good and you know we we clicked into it
1:17:58
because we were connected to the river and so we would go down there we would we would catch pickerel out of season
1:18:04
when they were spawning right under the dam by the mill because no one went there because it used to be polluted
1:18:10
right right right but once they started cleaning up the river that's when the M&R started coming down and telling us to get lost yeah for them hey hey
1:18:19
Michael have you ever let's say in the last 50 years has Lake Superior ever froze over
1:18:27
completely I wouldn't say completely completely um because there's so much energy and how it moves you'll get
1:18:33
you'll get leads breaking open right okay um but there have been times when it's frozen pretty hard um I think 2015
1:18:40
if you go back to 2015 that was a year that had a tremendous ice cover across the Great Lakes um including Ontario I
1:18:49
remember flying over Ontario from from Ottawa to Toronto um and it looked pretty the middle was
1:18:56
open and that was not too long ago um and I recall when I did my PhD in Quebec
1:19:03
that uh uh Lake Ontario had frozen over and that would have been like
1:19:09
1994 or something around there right right so it can happen probably won't happen now nowadays Waring but it has
1:19:16
happened in the past well the thing is you get fluctuations right right yeah and this this is one of those El Nino
1:19:21
years that's what saying is causing a lot of this and they're right but then the severity of it can change right um
1:19:28
you know we've probably heard the polar vortex and severity of it is kind of what we're experiencing right
1:19:33
now yeah it's pretty intense yeah sure although you know minus 20 is no big
1:19:39
deal right um but it's pushed further south and so there's you know there's
1:19:45
there's always that natural sort of range of of stuff that's happening but what happens is when you're talking
1:19:51
about ice cover you look at the rec record and you look at the frequency of ice low ice years and they're increasing
1:19:59
and now we're seeing even greater extent of it right yeah there's a good record
1:20:05
good record on Lake Champagne about that showing that they're they're losing their ice cover uh is there do you
1:20:12
foresee can we recover from this or or is this you mentioned earlier on that
1:20:18
it's kind of cyclical right and we're going through it and we're at this point in now yeah those sorry those those cycles of
1:20:26
of ice ages are like 30 to 50,000 to 100,000 years so are we just part of
1:20:32
that cycle right now is or we are we're just is I guess what I'm asking cycle
1:20:39
except we're affecting the rate at which we're coming out of ah so it's the speed
1:20:44
that we're affecting we cannot stop it from happening but we're making it happen faster than than nature yeah it's
1:20:52
like when you know it's it's momentum right you got you
1:20:59
know something really big and massive is moving towards you you better get out of the way because it's Gonna Roll right
1:21:05
over you you can you can get a bunch of people to try to stop it but it's not gonna happen until it slows down by itself right and then maybe start
1:21:12
rolling back the other way you know um but in the meantime we have to make sure we're not exacerbating the
1:21:19
situation because there's a thing called a Tipping Point
1:21:24
um people talked about Venus you know Tipping Point it just becomes like just a hot
1:21:31
Globe um we don't want the Earth obviously to be like that because what happens when it gets really really warm
1:21:38
is that the Abundant water that's on Earth will actually get into the atmosphere and that makes water vapor
1:21:45
and water vapor holds heat and then so that's called a runaway greenhouse
1:21:51
effect wow just to dampen your day yeah there
1:21:56
you go thank you I appreciate well I me you know seriously these are these are facts it's funny I
1:22:04
was uh traveling with a very good friend of mine last week and uh we had probably way too much time on our hands but at
1:22:10
one point we were philosophy you know looking into the future and and what ifs
1:22:16
and all that and we came up with the conclusion that here in Canada we seem to be pretty anal about all of this to
1:22:23
be very Frank with you you know we're we seem to be talking about it all the time we now have uh measures measurements in
1:22:31
in place to to curb it uh we and I I know what it was I know what it was that
1:22:36
prompted all this so we're down there and we go to a Walgreens to get some Bare Essentials some groceries for the
1:22:44
for the house that we rented and we go in and we do a little bit of shopping and we bring it up to the uh counter and
1:22:52
uh the lady was very nice and she starts you know punching it in and putting it in bags and she and one time she said
1:22:58
would you like that double bag sir and these are plastic bags and we're looking at each other like oh my God like this
1:23:04
is weird now because we we haven't seen plastic bags and I I don't know how long but she was encouraging us to take an
1:23:11
extra one for each one because of the weight of the goods that we're putting in those bags and then after we walked
1:23:16
out we said You know here we are busting our backs trying to get this thing figured out and we're South of the
1:23:24
Border and like bags are a dime a dozen how many do you want take them home with
1:23:30
you give areation because because what you've
1:23:35
just mentioned is that how quickly people can adapt because you it's nothing now to you to bring your own bag
1:23:42
right right it's normal simp stuff yeah so here we are South of the Border 360
1:23:50
million people are used proding bags plastic bags every day and and our
1:23:57
little 30 million or 40 million are are struggling along without it and and and
1:24:02
like I it didn't make any sense to us we looked at and said okay well you can't blame Canada then can you well I don't
1:24:09
know I don't know you tell me you tell me what does like is it is it wrong for
1:24:15
us to think that we might be able to do something about this when we've got our neighbors to the South that are totally
1:24:21
oblivious well Angelo Angelo that's and Pete this is this is where leadership comes to
1:24:28
play yeah you know we have to show by example we can we can do things a certain way we can educate other people
1:24:35
about proper ways of having you know responsible relationships with the natural
1:24:42
environment um it's it's not it's not impossible and you know maybe we are so
1:24:47
anal about our environment because that's how we identify as Canadians
1:24:52
right right you we like the great white we like to be able to go out and do these things you know hockey identifies
1:24:58
us yeah um and and I love seeing immigrants gravitate to hockey as well
1:25:03
oh sure you know it's right on yeah you know because that's that's that's Canada it's who we are so yeah yeah it's who we
1:25:10
are but my the question we kept asking each other was you know can we even make a difference so so here we are doing all
1:25:17
the right things the women down at these uh uh the woman that was bagging things she was kind of curious cuz we were like
1:25:24
so excited like we were like little kids giggling and and she she asked us what what what what's going so I explained to
1:25:32
her what's going on up here in Canada and it was like I just tried to explain
1:25:37
to her you know how to split an atom wow because she couldn't understand so why aren't you using them yeah well because
1:25:44
you know we're trying to protect the but like the bags hurting your environment up there wow you guys got problems she
1:25:50
said she says you guys got some so so when we were finished with her she honestly thought Canada is
1:25:58
in big trouble because they've got some ecological problems that we have don't
1:26:04
have down here cuz look we're still using all this stuff we share a lot of them we share the Great Lakes right yeah
1:26:10
yeah yeah yeah yeah Michael can the middle can science can can you and your
1:26:16
scientists can you guys help if we're getting in trouble this lack of ice thing is there anything that science can
1:26:22
do to help alleviate the bad outcomes let's say well I I I thought that for
1:26:29
the past 40 minutes I was kind of trying to do that right right um and what it is is is speaking with people who I don't
1:26:37
usually get to speak with right perfect right yep um and so that's that's that's
1:26:43
part of my role and part of my responsibility as an educator um and so that's that's where
1:26:50
scientist has to be um um you know a lot of times some scientists you know can't
1:26:55
talk to people because they talk a different language y right but what we're learning more and more about is
1:27:01
that we have to really make an effort to um interact with the public they call it Outreach you know and it really makes
1:27:09
sense too because you know when we we get grants most of our funding for research comes from
1:27:15
who public right right taxes right and so we have an obligation to make sure
1:27:22
that uh people know how your moneyy is being spent right and and why and all that so yeah it's uh that's that's where
1:27:29
we are with with science you know it's that um and there's also citizen scientists too you know right um there's
1:27:37
a thing called the rink watch which started in Southern Ontario I believe where these people who have rinks they
1:27:43
talk about you know when their rink goes in and then when the rink goes out in their backyard rink right right and so
1:27:51
all that information goes gets posted on a website and they they've actually shown that the the time for having rinks
1:27:58
in your backyard Southern Ontario is shrinking right and yeah so it's and that's gonna
1:28:06
affect hockey right somewhere down the line that will have a profound effect sure
1:28:12
will on on kids gra that are learning in the backyard cre skky did that think think
1:28:19
about that think about that that's another I mean we don't well if you ever need to reach out to us Michael you know
1:28:26
for fishing wise fish talk you know we can we might be able to help you a little bit we're not scientists but we're uh we're on the water quite a bit
1:28:32
so so we're do all right at it anyways uh We've kept you far longer than uh
1:28:38
than we had agreed to and and we appreciate this so much um I do too we
1:28:43
will we will continue to reach out to you as well and um get your back on the
1:28:49
program and and share with us what you're working on I think it's so important we we tell this to uh M&R all
1:28:54
the time uh that they do a great job at um implementing programs but they do a
1:29:02
really crappy job at talking to people who have to adhere to those
1:29:07
programs right it's just awful their communication to people is just awful and and so I understand the comment you
1:29:14
just made right it's important for the scientific Community to speak to people
1:29:19
um about what they're doing what what you're doing what you're observing what you're what you're you're you're
1:29:26
forecasting um very important so yeah um we will uh continue reaching out to you
1:29:32
if you don't mind and and uh and asking you to share it all with us uh how can folks get uh in touch with you can
1:29:39
somebody reach out to you and get more information about what's going on yes um you can contact me through email my
1:29:47
email address is michael. Twist twis at
1:29:53
you.ca perfect and we now will tell Carol caputa who is the queen of
1:29:58
Northern Ontario tourism that we met another local we met a principal local exactly there you I'm looking forward to
1:30:04
me here all right opportunity take care andjoy your day thank you st M wow uh
1:30:13
interesting stuff very tactical but it's very interesting and it affects us so are we any closer
1:30:20
to standing this food chain business no for sure we're not but I think we've
1:30:26
just I've just it's open my eyes as to the effect of this lack of ice I have no
1:30:32
idea you don't you don't think that way I don't think that way having the waves Crush in on the on the shoreline that's
1:30:37
not you know Frozen anymore and it's ruining the sediment is uplifting and
1:30:42
wreaking havoc versus the the ice being there it's just that little thing alone is like wow you see to me it was all
1:30:48
about the photosynthesis but from the sounds of it the wind plays a a major
1:30:53
role in when there's no ice I was GNA I was gonna ask about the photosynthesis
1:30:59
of shooting through like we talked in our last podcast about shooting through a foot and a half of snow 2 feet of snow 3et of ice how does photosyn synthesis
1:31:06
still work you know what I mean but lots to be something to work on next time but yeah uh just in closing this this I
1:31:13
forgot to tell you last week about this this bag in the grocery store there's bags everywhere like you can get and
1:31:19
they have different types and colors and sizes you could say give me one of those put that put that like the bags for yeah
1:31:27
it's like it's not even happening it's Canada maybe they're they're very Advanced at that maybe what Michael is
1:31:34
saying maybe we are you know we are looking at it uh more responsibly than
1:31:40
anybody else so far and they will learn through it or they will ignore it or will be proved that ah doesn't matter
1:31:46
but it does have to matter good God I mean plastic waste it's got to matter right some somehow or other so I think
1:31:53
we're extrem on some sun senses but I think this one maybe we got the US on that right now all right got the upper
1:31:59
hand on we have uh food for thought if nothing else uh about this situation um
1:32:06
there a bunch of well there is that too I didn't want to go there all that beautiful talk and Dean just
1:32:11
pounced it I didn't want to go there but uh we must as we do each and every week that's awesome uh want to remind folks
1:32:18
the contest at fishing canada.com is ongoing I'm not sure what's there now
1:32:24
all I know is that there are multiple contests happening as we speak people are winning Garmin products Coleman
1:32:31
products they're winning like trips to to far away Resorts and lodges there
1:32:38
what I one thing I do know one thing I know for sure is that the people who are
1:32:44
aware of it and are entering the contest are getting an opportunity to win
1:32:49
whereas the people who are oblivious to the contest even being up there are not going to win a thing that's a good point
1:32:57
right yeah it's like release fish versus non-release fish the ones that go in the frying pan will be dead Gandhi the
1:33:04
others hey somebody's going to win somebody's going to win this stuff right that's right so there you go all
1:33:09
happening at fishing canada.com the Gateway the the portal to your next fishing
1:33:15
Adventure on behalf of the uh entire crew uh Mr Peter Bowman here today in
1:33:20
this beautiful fishing Canada by the way shop. fishing canada.com I was going to say just tell them where you got that
1:33:27
beauty I just did and me too for that not bad yeah not bad it's all happening right now um vaa behind the camera today
1:33:35
you were right on today with your camera movement and stuff I was particularly impressed I kept an eye on you today was
1:33:42
special I think vaa I we need to mic up vaa and these special situations where he can just throw one right back oh that
1:33:48
would be the best oh my God uh Nick I see Nick is uh where he normally would
1:33:53
be and uh of course being come on now thank you to everybody we will catch you next
1:34:00
[Music] [Applause] [Music]
1:34:09
time

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Are Warm Winters Hurting Our Fisheries? | Outdoor Journal Radio ep. 103

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