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Are Ticks Threatening our Moose Populations | Outdoor Journal Radio ep. 107
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Mar 24, 2025
This week on Outdoor Journal Radio, Ang and Pete are joined by Dr. Steeve Côté, professor of biology at the Université Laval who is dedicated to studying the destructive potential of winter ticks on our moose populations. First, however, a bit of housekeeping was in order. Topics discussed included: our 38th season; stocking bait instead of game fish; the plural of walleye; the Lake Ontario smelt invasion; grocery prices; how short ice fishing season will get; mandating life jackets; and getting burnt out of fishing. With those matters out of the way, Dr. Côté joins the show! Topics discussed included: what causes bald patches on moose; the biology of Winter Ticks; how they find their hosts; whether humans are susceptible to them; why moose are particularly vulnerable; whether the tick problem is "new"; the edibility of tick-infested moose; what is being done to help; permethrin; hunting collared moose; and much more! Listen to our Podcast, Outdoor Journal Radio: The Podcast ► Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3J0klPY ► Apple Music: https://apple.co/3CtzZkp ► Subscribe http://bit.ly/youtube-fishncanada Don't forget to leave a COMMENT and give us a LIKE if you enjoyed what you saw. SUBSCRIBE for new videos and episodes released weekly! CONNECT WITH US -------------------------------- ► WEBSITE http://fishncanada.com ► FACEBOOK https://www.facebook.com/FishnCanada/ ► INSTAGRAM https://www.instagram.com/fishncanadaofficial/?hl=en ► TWITTER https://twitter.com/angeloviolafnc/
View Video Transcript
0:00
and now another exciting episode in The Adventures of Outdoor Journal
0:06
radio well hello everybody thank you for joining us I'm Angelo Viola he is Peter Bowman this is Outdoor Journal Radio
0:13
podcast uh behind the scenes vaa Nick and Dean are
0:18
uh Dean is also the producer of The Show and Dean is also uh our research
0:24
department and Dean is also um he's pretty much everything we do oh my
0:29
what's Nick if Dean's everything we do what's Nick oh God that's a great question absent absent as usual
0:37
[Music] now oh thank thanks for joining us once again you know we don't tell you often
0:43
enough how much we love you but we do love you we love you cuz without you I
0:48
don't know where I'd be a delinquent somewhere right now I think you might still have some of them tendencies in
0:55
you yeah I once the camera stops rolling and I think so sometimes I can be nasty
1:01
oh but but these good folks keep me uh you know under under control thank you
1:06
folks for that why see without this he would be out of oh my God thank you
1:11
people thank you for listening wonderful program today uh speaking about out of control our main subject and our guest
1:17
will be talking to it the subject later on in the program uh his name is Dr
1:22
Steve cot and they're doing an interesting study I think it might be
1:27
the first uh of its kind certainly in this country uh regarding that that uh
1:34
you know we've I think anybody who spends any amount of time in the outdoors during the winter period we've
1:40
all seen that sickly looking moose standing on the edge of the highway and
1:46
you and you look at sometimes we'll stop and take pictures you say my God what is the matter with that animal like it's
1:52
lost most of its fur hair and you can tell that it's very
1:59
weak feral looks like a zombie or something right yeah and uh for the most
2:06
part that is the net result of something called a winter tick my freaking ticks man they're just
2:13
not good are they ticks are like we're not talking uh the deer tick now we're not talking the black legged tick which
2:19
is the deer tick which uh is a vector for line disease this is a different animal called a winter tick uh and its
2:27
job is to reproduce that's all it does it comes into the environment something like yourself thank you thank you you're
2:35
welcome I like that you're welcome um the count might have something to say
2:40
about that uh but yeah it's an interesting
2:46
relationship if you will a reluctant relationship between moose and Witter tick because they're directly connected
2:53
without one there isn't the other and so we'll find all out all about this later on the program I didn't even know that
3:00
existed you know I me I had no idea there was such a thing as a winter tick we always hear about blacklegged but cool it's uh there's many things around
3:09
us that we're not aware of my friend you got that right and sometimes we're better off for not being aware of them
3:15
yeah you're right than we're you don't know don't hurt you that's right right uh one thing we'd like to make you aware
3:20
of is the uh new season of the fishing Canada show if you haven't already started watching it not know a problem
3:26
it's not a big deal but you might want to if you're watching it on television you might want to punch in that uh PVR
3:31
and get it recorded for yourself or watch it live every Saturday morning 8:00 a.m. uh Coast to Coast on global
3:38
except on the Left Coast those folks get to sleep in and watch it at 10:30 give
3:44
me a hell yeah that's where you that's where you should be yeah uh also on Sportsman's Channel and
3:52
wfn for you folks south of South of the Border we're on four times a week I believe on uh the World Fishing Network
3:59
so wh you can get that uh check us out if you haven't already done so season 38
4:05
by the way that's the significance of the 38 wow really what I got to do this for two more years and then boom Oh
4:14
that's the magic number big 40 no down well I'm just saying that I'm looking at
4:19
that number there I you know if if that was 40 I would think wellow that's very successful it's it's you know it it's a
4:26
nice even number 38 is pretty good you're just looking for an even number you know 38 I always wonder what this
4:33
number now no I just say it's just a number we going to stop her at 27 you know what I mean what the hell no you
4:39
can't stop on an odd number what the hell is why not you can't I always choose odd numbers that way I'm done
4:46
with that even number stuff that's too prototyp too typical should say just too too easy to do got to be even it's got
4:52
to be 40 or 50 or 60 or something what's Ronnie mun's number
4:58
699 oh I see you fashion yourself after
5:03
Ronnie no no no no Ronnie the guy you don't want to Fashion yourself after it just thought of that with an odd number
5:09
that's all uh there are a lot of numbers at the fishing Canada store that you can
5:15
uh hook up with up that's good good Segway buddy nice shop. look good in
5:20
that number you got on right now for those that are watching us on YouTube Snappy little number yes yes sir and you
5:26
have the smaller version got the smaller version got the smaller version of this handsome attractive brand and by the way
5:33
as I'm rubbing myself um I'm feeling the uh 12,000 individual stitches that it
5:41
took to embroider this beautiful logo 12,000 individual stitches what about
5:48
this little guy here I'm not sure but I'll find out for you but it looks like about 2 or 3,000 but 12,000 stitches
5:55
went into this wonderful a lot of stitching fish and Canada logo you going to stop touching yourself soon no I kind
6:01
of like it actually that logo isn't on your nipple you keep touching your nipple damn it what the hell's going on here this show is gone for a [ __ ] you
6:07
too can have one of these moments that I'm having right now if you have your own fishing Canada hoodie all available
6:15
on shop. fishing canada.com if they're listening on a podcast they might buy it but if I just watched you do that I
6:21
don't know if they're going to be buying that anymore that's hilarious listener feedback Mr Bowman what do we got
6:28
listener feedback from Mr Dave hendrik from Instagram see we're getting them from all over the that's awesome
6:33
Instagram Facebook email etc etc YouTube this is fantastic so in response to our
6:39
conversation with Paul J radomsky the Walley guy Walley guy question from he
6:46
he was the one that our good buddy uh Teddy took objection toed said well I'm got yeah I got to question this guy a
6:52
little bit so Dave hendrik from Instagram says uh to have a better fishery has
6:58
anyone ever question question stalking Bait fish certain minnows shiners etc
7:04
etc more bait would maybe stop cannibalism as in the walleye were eating the baby Walley and that's what
7:09
he's worried about Walley walleye Walley Walley I think correct or maybe not
7:15
maybe W I would be plural as well as singular yeah but can we look into that could somebody look into it yeah right
7:21
okay so Ang and I have definitely talked about this throughout our entire existence of uh in the world of fishing
7:28
as this as stocking Pro programs go on maybe we should be stalking Bait fish to and we've brought that up to many uh
7:34
authorities and we usually get the same answer right which is not not a good idea not a good idea and and now we know
7:42
of certain cases uh where they do that we've witnessed uh Hasty Lake would be
7:49
one that comes to mind would came to my mind right off the Hop funny you say that they have to have no choice because
7:55
that lake is full of giant bass both Largemouth and Smallmouth and lake trout
8:00
and lake trout but I have a feeling that the bass are kind of dominating that little speck of water so so they they
8:07
introduce rainbow smelt into that Hasty Lake and there is a Cisco base in there they must survive on their own cuz I
8:13
think Ray was telling us they don't restock Cisco but yet there's lots in there but they do the rainbow smelt so
8:19
maybe the smelt can't reproduce in there I don't know what goes on in that Lake but they do that for the lake TR and
8:26
then of course the small Mo and large Mo are all taking advantage of it sense but in reality what's happening in in a lot
8:33
of jurisdictions is that they're taking the other approach to it if the food
8:39
base is starting to decline then they look at it from the top down they say
8:44
well then we need to if they're stocking for example the main predator in that
8:50
Lake they will shorten the stocking uh numbers and try and balance it out that
8:56
way right I've always been of the opinion like uh this gentleman what's
9:02
his name just Dave Dave I i' I've been of his opinion you know what if the
9:09
cupboards are drying up the food is getting low put more food in it's it's a no the reason they don't is because it's
9:18
all about control man good by the way good fishery management is nothing more
9:24
than controlling Mother Nature right because good fishery management means that that we as humans are controlling
9:31
the numbers and we're we're using this control in order to keep the populations
9:38
healthy in the case of bait and and and um stocking Bait fish in in a lake
9:46
apparently it's not quite as easy so the control issue is uh is you're screwing
9:52
with the ecosystem of the lake too right let's just say let's go back to Hasty any Lake if they said okay let's double
9:59
up the amount of Cisco that we put in this Lake instead of the the rainbow smell and then the Cisco started to eat
10:05
more insects and and Zoo Plankton and everything else where they're just screwing up that whole ecosystem so that
10:12
maybe eventually nothing else the rainbow smelt and the minnows there can't survive because there's no food for them you know what I I'm just
10:18
thinking I'm just throwing this out there and then all of a sudden now it's just Cisco and the the the Smallmouth in
10:24
this case we'll call Smallmouth only have to go over for Cisco they can't get any minerals anywhere so they go and try and get crayfish they'll go maybe it's
10:30
it screwed them up so bad in the in that Minal Department let's just say the regular shiners or mud minals whatever
10:35
they have in there it might just wipe them out completely by putting a a different Bait fish in I don't know if you talk to a true scientist he'll tell
10:42
you he she will tell you that any time you screw around with nature you run you
10:49
know it's a slippery slope you might increase the value of something and decrease the value of something catch a
10:54
Pike in one Lake and drop it into a lake doesn't have Pike in it you're asking for trouble yeah you know what I mean
11:00
that way to me you know as as I think what Dave's saying is this if they have
11:05
shiners in that Lake put more shiners in that lake is what he's saying I think right you know what I mean is there how big a problem where when can you can you
11:12
do that and is there a problem I think you get to a point where you can put too many yeah and that makes sense if if
11:17
that imbalance happens then you got another problem they screw up something else you know I and I and I'll use the
11:24
uh the Great Lakes with the uh sea smelt Invasion back in the 50s and know they
11:30
were sea smell yeah no kidding yeah you can buy them now L Blas yeah yeah sea smell I just didn't know you never they
11:35
never recall that just called smell right I thought were Lake smell or something like that no anyways it it it
11:42
got really one-sided more more smelt than than predators and next thing you know
11:48
we've got an inbalance and they got to put more predators in which they did and they successfully almost well no they
11:56
did eradicate smell with that so yeah yeah it's and now there's no food and
12:01
now the Predators that we put in there's not enough food for them so now we got reduce the Predator count in order to
12:09
question for you that sea smelt is that the same species as up in let's say uh
12:14
Rainy Lake and because they have smelt and those Lakes are way up there is that the same one yeah really yeah it's it's native to the ocean all all of that is
12:21
all cool at one point in The evolutionary uh chain it was out here
12:28
and it ended up and it's survives no problem fresh water and there you go okay right same as the Atlantic salmon I
12:33
hate to bring it up again but I'll bring it up again that's a salt a saltwater
12:38
fish that ended up converting to freshwat in the Great Lakes and then we eradicated that and anyways why you get
12:46
me started in that you know how I feel you know how I feel about it I said you didn't smelt so good I love smelt what
12:52
was the last time you had a good fet of oh God when I was a kid for sure you know what I mean like do you remember
12:59
fresh CAU like I mean it's different than you get them Frozen they're still good but those fresh cot ones you stick the scissors up the butt and them up
13:05
there and just the heads on it they just fling it in the pan and bread with with
13:10
flour we used to do just just flour right yeah was it and then and then when it's all done you got a plate of and they're crust they're crusty and the fs
13:18
and and you and you squeeze a lemon on that I know oh my God and but a pound of
13:25
salt how many people are that are listening that actually have exper that compar I mean that shows our age for
13:31
sure cuz I don't know when the last time that happened but it was good and there and the amount of smelts in Lake Ontario
13:38
for instance and the Bay of Quint used to do it there too was incredible when they came in in the shorelines we used
13:44
to just oh my god when the nights were good ehy Two Scoops you're done two scoops of raisins you're done it was
13:51
Unreal So speaking of eating uh you'll notice on fishing canada.com we often
13:57
highlight and feature some of the other podcasters that are on the Outdoor Journal radio network come on now uh
14:03
this week we're highlighting uh eating wild with Antonio and the boys Louie and
14:09
Daniel um they had a guest uh on that his name is uh Chef Craig
14:15
bter and interesting podcast for no other reason if you are concerned about
14:21
the ever Rising costs of living in this part of the world uh groceries have got
14:27
to be at the top of that list well uh the Pod this podcast is all about uh asking the question are you getting
14:33
ripped off should be an easy one to just look look that up you're me and is such a
14:40
strong subject right now I mean let's be honest when you go to the grocery store now compared to even five years ago this
14:46
is insane I'll be honest I haven't been keeping an eye on that as much as I
14:52
should have and I do grocery shopping for our household well I I do I split it
14:57
in terms of time spend in grocery store but I never really looked at it price but I got to tell you lately I've been
15:03
looking and I said oh my God oh my God like stupid stuff a little watermelon is
15:09
now $10 yeah yeah that used to be $1.99 exactly last time I looked exactly yeah
15:16
and it's on everything it's on everything produce the meats the you name it it's cereal anything it's so
15:23
horrible yeah we are getting ripped off check out the podcast episode 33 eating Wild
15:29
uh in the news on fishing canada.com a wonderful article it's up now uh it's
15:34
titled how short will our ice fishing season yet and we were talking about that before we started the podcast in
15:41
some cases zero yeah I mean there's people fishing out of boats right now
15:46
where normally they would be out ice fishing in Huts like this one that's uh
15:52
sinking a great picture look at that it's a it's a great question you know how short will it be I guess there are
15:58
some ice fishing conditions that are questionable but still allowing people to go out on them
16:06
and I'm talking about the southern part of this country I know up north they've
16:12
got you know 2T of ice they're driving TR tractor trailers uh on winter roads
16:17
on the ice so this applies mostly to the southern part of of Canada in particular
16:24
um Ontario for sure start getting those plus they're you know what I mean
16:29
through through January and February there really shouldn't be any plus degrees well my God this this winter in
16:34
particular it's way more plus than it is negative in the daytime night times it's getting down but even nights you know
16:40
minus two is not good for ice no you know what I mean you need minus concerned I know there are people who
16:46
argue that I know that there that there are people I know that g Dean you and Steve were out on Ice that was
16:53
questionable last week I know that I know you do that how questionable was it deie it was good it was 4 Ines I was
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told 4 Ines yeah maybe four and a half I tell my wife that's a lot of ice yeah I know you do I think that's a ton of ice
17:06
yeah uh it's questionable but anyways uh
17:12
regardless it it Southern Canada and Northern us like the state of Minnesota
17:18
for example you've got to be really careful this year it's it's it's uh not
17:25
something that that you want to muck around with there's a wonderful Story on on the news uh in fishing canada.com
17:30
that will how I got a question for you guys and I thought about it this week as as Dean was Dean and Steve were fishing
17:36
ice I was less than 30 km away in a boat in open water in a boat it was good conditions so I'll just
17:43
tell you my conditions the water was almost dead flat but it was 34° Fahrenheit would you feel safer in
17:50
that if you were going to do one of them in the boat where I was or on that ice where Dean was what do you think oh 100%
17:56
in the boat yeah 100% yeah I thought about it I thought with wind because you know why see these
18:04
gentlemen were think differently and this probably has an age thing to do with that they were too far away from
18:11
Shore had something happened out there which we hear about and I used to report
18:16
on on a weekly basis by the way um they're too far from Shore to survive it
18:23
they're going in they're going in now we were to if we lost a boat the boat yeah
18:29
I know I don't know if the boat had FL it wasn't my boat I I'm sure the boat had flotation in it you know but how are you going to lose it you've got to have
18:36
the conditions have got to change right they're not going to change that quick that drastic that you don't have an
18:42
opportunity to high tail it back to sh well yeah the boat with the boat you mean yeah yeah yeah yeah if something
18:47
happened to the boat you can still stay with the boat try your best to stay with the boat 911 with your phone cuz one of
18:52
us we all had our we all set it up proper we had flotation suits on and we had cell phones ready to go we even put
19:00
I had a floater suit on and I had a life an inflatable life jacket on you know what I mean so not that it's going to save you from hypothermia but it could
19:06
save you could help a little bit in a lot of cases what happens on this thin ice is that people overnight or they
19:13
have a nap out there next thing you know MH [ __ ] happens like in their case they
19:19
had a startling Kaboom in the middle of the night like a pressure crack sort of
19:25
pressure crack that uh scared the hell out of them you didn't stay overnight did you no no and it only scared Steve
19:30
by the way oh it didn't oh because you're the tough guy I see he's that's it well Stevie doesn't ice fish much so
19:37
he's never experienced something like that probably you know what I mean so Dean's done that his whole life so pressure when you hear it it does you
19:43
know opens your eyes not like a gunshot it was a good one yeah it was a good one
19:48
was the uh was the surface ice frozen or was it melting cuz it was nice out where we were yeah it was only plus two for
19:55
where we were so it doesn't really melt too fast at that plus two but 4 in of ice if you are anything more than a few
20:02
hundred yards offshore you got to worry about it because it's 4 in where you are right
20:08
here but you don't know on a body of water what the conditions are 50 ft away from correct 4 in is not enough for
20:16
anybody to feel secure to go out beyond that distance
20:21
because things could be happening between you and Shore while you're on 4 in all of a sudden there's a one in
20:28
piece over here that is now becoming nothing once that breaks away and
20:33
everything moves you're you carried a spud with you right you sp so that's one thing you should always do is carry that
20:40
Spud with you on an iffy ice if it's 12 in Spud ain't going to do you any good need it so you mentioned flotation in
20:46
the boat more important although you have to wear you need to wear flotation on a boat there's no doubt about it but
20:54
as important you need probably more important in where you were yeah I had it on yeah these suits that we were
20:59
wearing are designed for ice fishing by the way ice fishing suits but I I bought because I want it for Open Water like
21:06
this time of year too right you know what it's not rated for 9 hours like the Mustangs are but it's rated for 2 hours
21:12
and and they're warm and comfortable etc etc so that's why we were what you going to say by the way here's a a shocker I
21:19
think it's great by the way don't take it wrong I just found out this morning
21:24
cuz we have to submit commercials before we can uh send commercials to the Network we have to submit them to crtc
21:31
yes our friends crtc approval of all commercials we just sent a commercial in and for the first time in about um uh oh
21:38
10 15 years rejected we had a commercial that was rejected today this morning and you know why what the hell you know why
21:45
oh Dean's not even listening to me he's too busy writing down [ __ ] over there I got to get him he's doing his job he got
21:52
we need to get him on camera it reminded me that I have a commercial thing to do after this so I put it on my list see
21:58
that's the difference between him and I we'd be go huh what commercial land what did we do wrong you and I we get all on a tangent
22:06
gun and all of a sudden what who had to do that job I don't know so interestingly now I don't know how long
22:13
it's been going on maybe forever for all I know this is very interesting to me crtc now is
22:19
monitoring uh safety issues on commercials before it was content it was you know they have certain guidelines
22:25
that you can't go down that road you can't go down that Road they they uh refused a commercial
22:31
that we submitted because there was a uh Second and a half at the very beginning
22:37
of the commercial where it was a water scene depicted people in boats mhm and there
22:44
was a child with no life jacket on wow oh my was a good is that a shock I mean
22:52
it's good I love it I think it's great I just didn't know that they were they were that in this country we are that
22:59
regulated and they have to have somebody there who knows what they're talking about in that sense like who knows
23:05
that's illegal and those because you wouldn't think this crtc would have people who are aware of that and it's
23:11
specific to children because I look obviously when I got notified of it I looked at what it was commercial it's
23:17
it's a a scene with a child clearly under 10 years old and an adult the
23:25
adult had no jacket on and that would be okay mhm but the child must have a
23:31
jacket on even though there is no law in this country that says You must have oh
23:38
really that I'm aware of I don't I was going to ask that question because I'm agree with an I don't think there is a law for a set age no as long as I mean
23:45
it's just common sense you you have to have it on board but you don't have to have it on which is ludicrous by the way
23:51
just just so I for a kid I've been advocating for better part of two
23:56
decades that that DFO or whoever's in charge of that part needs to mandate
24:03
life jackets that would solve so many problems it would fix so many things that are broken but don't get me off on
24:09
that tangent but crtc now wow that's not our did we create the commercial or is
24:14
that one somebody has created it was sent to us I don't want to name the brand because now on on the other hand they don't know it's a US company well
24:21
we need to inform them too well of course we're going to inform them but I just found that interesting that is
24:26
really interesting they caught it they're doing their jobs somebody so you cannot depict the scene according to the
24:34
crtc on a commercial they haven't hit programming yet with that obviously
24:41
because I've seen a lot of people yeah that's true yeah you know out in boats with no life jackets on on shows not
24:47
ours thankfully but um but on commercials they're saying no that child
24:54
H even though it's not the law that child has to have a jacket on I applaud them for the first time you're
25:00
hearing this live here on Outdoor Journal radio the podcast I'm applauding
25:05
crtc give me a hell yeah hell yeah there you go wow good for them they're keeping
25:12
up on it right all right uh we've spent way too much time there we get every
25:17
once in a while we just get bogged down it's like a mud bow I think it's so organic that I think the audience likes
25:23
it maybe the audience should let us know if they don't if we could take off on these tangents and you say just getting on with the show idiots then tell us
25:30
please but if you like this you know like that was just very a flow of thin ice to this to that to that by the way
25:37
that scene you see here if you read the article on fishing canada.com that's up in the news right now you'll get a
25:43
better understanding of how bad it is out there during these conditions uh
25:48
check it out it's important to know so fan question of the week Mr Bowman yes sir this one is submitted by Richard
25:55
Fran Cur I'm going to say this Fran Frank sound to you Frank C sounds good from Northwest tar nwt that might be a first
26:03
nice that can we have some kind of that's definitely the first I've never seen hit hit a button hit something give me a hell yeah that's a hell yeah for
26:10
Richard right there nice Richard got three you got three little sound bites there by from from Northwest
26:17
Territory via email uh and Richard he submitted it email we can do email or on
26:23
our socials fishing can or Facebook or Instagram etc etc so Richard's
26:30
question have you ever gotten tired SLB burnt out of
26:35
fishing who tired of burn out of fishing do you want me to go first on that sure sure I know uh it my response will
26:44
probably be a lot different than yours uh the answer for me is
26:49
absolutely uh and I would say that's more so in the last uh 10 to 15 years
26:56
obviously in my younger days no you couldn't you couldn't uh
27:02
no I was an idiot back then and I ignored all the rest of the wonderful
27:08
things that life has to offer just to be on the business end of a fishing rod but
27:14
as I got older I realized that you can still enjoy it to the max in fact you
27:20
can enjoy it even more when you share those experiences with other things in
27:26
life for me when I come out of the Bush after four or five months of shooting
27:31
and taping the show six months some years I don't want to go anywhere near
27:37
it for a couple of months in fact I want to do the opposite I want to go I want
27:42
to immerse myself in all of the urbanite activities that I possibly
27:48
can that I miss while I was in the boonies uh using an ouse on a regular
27:54
basis so I I like boils down to the I wrap myself in porcelain for the next
28:01
6 months oh my God and enjoy all the wonderful things that normal folks do he
28:06
on the other hand is not normal and now we'll listen to his answer to this question you didn't you didn't it didn't
28:12
say you're that didn't burn you out yeah you're just tired of it I guess that for a period time I'm burned out I don't
28:18
want to see another boat and fish or or rain or wind or or or you know any of
28:25
that stuff I don't want to see any of that stuff I hear you yeah yeah myself definitely definitely the totally opposite of an on that one
28:32
in that um I don't even remember very often how if I've ever been burnt out
28:38
just saying that's enough that's enough you I mean there there's close to it and all that stuff but we got on fishing
28:44
Canada shoots for instance we're into three days of tough fishing it's almost like it's I got to defeat these fish I
28:50
got to get you know yeah then there's many times I'll come home from a shoot and go on the weekend
28:57
go fishing again on the weekend you know what I mean so something like that so um I I
29:03
honestly think about fishing every day of my life there's not a day that goes by when I'm not half that day has got
29:10
fishing of some sort going through my head from whatever is so I can't say as I get I'm never get to get tired of it
29:16
for sure uh I don't think I will anyways and burn out from it it' have to be pretty extreme for me to get burn out
29:22
from fishing I think now there's two totally different opinions on the same
29:29
question same subject uh don't know if that's what you were looking for in in
29:34
the uh when you asked that question uh but um I I had it like like an had it
29:40
earlier in life and he just decided hey there's more to this there's more to life than just fishing right so I I just carried it on that's where we were the
29:46
same at one time and then we kind to I love you know and and I'll use maybe
29:52
this is a bad example but maybe I'll use it as an example to maybe drive this
29:57
point home so I also love uh scuba diving for example and and so does Pete
30:05
absolutely but Pete would rather fish than go scuba diving with me I would rather do both a little bit of both to
30:13
get me in in in that that high that uh that people are always looking for when
30:18
you're doing activities like that but I I want to equate this to vacationing you know it's like somebody who goes on
30:23
vacation that just wants to go to do that one thing whether it's lying on the
30:29
beach whether it's climbing a a a rock cliff and diving into the ocean whether
30:35
it's deep sea fishing whether it's scuba diving at the pool bar sitting at the
30:40
pool bar so here's the example I want to give you so Pete and I go to the same resort
30:46
to vacation I want to do everything I want to do it all I want to do a little
30:51
bit of everything Pete would prefer if if fishing was the thing to do he would
30:56
fish the whole time we're there yeah you're probably right nothing wrong with either one just that that we have
31:02
different I for I love fast cars I want to be I want to sit behind the wheel of
31:07
a fast car and and and do [ __ ] right I love that just as much as say do
31:13
fishing yeah so to to be able to do both to me is yeah it's good for me
31:20
personally is is the best thing I could do with him he's on the road 7 Days shooting the fishing Canada show under
31:26
some by the way just to make something perfectly clear most shoots that we go
31:32
on have an element of stress and an element of of of uh
31:40
long days and grueling conditions the element of elements I could give you all
31:46
of the all of those things along with along with obviously a lot of good stuff but when he's finished with seven days
31:53
of those I asked him so what you we come home I so what you what are we doing what are you doing this weekend oh I'm
31:58
going fishing with my buddy you're going to and I look at him are you at your freaking mind after what we just went
32:05
through but that's that's who he is right yeah yeah yeah yeah anyways
32:10
thought I would uh throw that last piece in there that's good I think we got I think we covered it I think we got Richard's uh question
32:17
[Music] covered it's going to be a game changer
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fishing will not be the same in Canada hi everybody it's Sportsman show time and the entire fishing Canada Outdoor
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Journal podcast crew is going to be there that's right we'll be inh house hosting live podcast interacting with
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purchasing through the link on fishing canada.com spend a weekend with us at Canada's Premier event for outdoor
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I The Humble goldfish everyone's favorite
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aquatic pet it's small easy to care for what they not to love even the cat may
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be mesmerized by the color and movements of your aquarium friends goldfish are great at home but don't let them loose
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releasing goldfish or other domestic aquatic pets or plants into natural environments is harmful to both your pet
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and the planet gfish disrupt ecosystems by out competing native species for food and resources in degraded habitats they
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contribute to Allergy blooms they kill aquatic wildlife and pass viruses and diseases contracted in aquariums to
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Wildfish they could even live up to 40 years and grow as big as a football
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Anglers this is where you come in if you find a goldfish at your local fishing spot report it to the invading species
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hotline or go online to Ed maps.com remember to never dump your
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live bait into the water and risk spreading other Aquatic Invaders keep our legs free from invad and don't let
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them [Music]
34:07
[Music] loose so if you drive around in the north you can see entire Valley Mountain
34:13
sides that are just red and ultimately they're kind of a bomb waiting to go off like it's uh it's a little
34:19
nerve-wracking As A Firefighter driving through some of these areas and you just see you know like what looks like could
34:24
be an inferno this week on the outoor Journal Radio podcast networks Diaries
34:30
of a lodge owner we discuss one of the fastest growing threats to Lodge owners
34:36
Northern businesses and Humanity as a whole Wildfire well here to discuss this with
34:43
us is a forest firefighter a young unsung hero who for
34:49
a decade has been putting himself between these raging beasts and your
34:55
community Mackenzie roast on this show we look through the smoke and into the life of a BC forest
35:02
firefighter we talk about the science of forest fires and the skill and training required to fight them so if you're
35:10
interested in great stories outstanding people Cool Jobs and fire feel the
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excitement and get ready to look through the flames on this one you never know
35:23
what we might find on the other side find of a lodge owner now on Spotify
35:29
Apple podcasts or wherever you get your
35:37
podcast all right let's get to the meat potatoes of this whole uh this whole show joining us now our special guest
35:44
Steve cotay uh he is the uh PhD from sherbrook University and professor of
35:51
Department of biology in University Laval welcome to the show Steve
35:57
thank you hey Steve so this is a topic that we've talked about on the program
36:04
um several times uh moose as you may or may not know has been under uh the
36:11
microscope certainly in this province of Ontario uh for a few years now and
36:17
there's all kinds of you know reasons given as to why there the the population
36:22
may or may not be in Decline maybe may or may not be in a rebuild mode may or
36:28
may not be you know In Harm's Way but the bottom line is we've all seen it we've seen moose coming especially in
36:35
the winter time coming out on the roads uh to whether it's a salt lick or whatever reasons but but they're covered
36:42
in these big patches and for the most part I believe they're ticks they look mangy it almost looks like what's wrong
36:48
with this thing there's something wrong right so and you've done a study uh which is great cuz you're the first
36:54
person who can actually intelligently tell us what we're looking at when we see these moose that are obviously
37:00
infected with something um so I'll I'll turn it over to you my
37:05
friend yeah so um what you're talking about is definitely winter ticks and uh
37:12
um when uh when they are on moose we only see them in the winter uh not
37:17
because they're not there at other times of year it's because they're too small to see before that so the the way it
37:24
works is a that's a very special thick there are several species of ticks in the country but the one that goes and
37:30
moves the winter tick is very special because it's a one host tick so that means it doesn't have to go on another
37:36
house for part of its life cycle it's only on moose and the other important
37:41
thing to know is that they're not on moves year round uh they on moves only from uh
37:48
about September at the ears most of the time October until April and where are
37:54
they otherwise where where they must live on another host don't they plants or something no they don't
38:01
they don't so the well in in a nutshell what the life cycle is is uh when you
38:07
see a moose what we call a ghost moose like with these big patches of uh of
38:12
lost air in in the winter it's because the uh it it's infected with adult ticks
38:20
and the adul tics have taken blood meals uh that are interfering with a lot of
38:26
different things in the condition of moose but it's one of the effect is causing air loss but these ticks will
38:33
fall on the ground like especially the females by that time are quite big they're about the size of the nail of
38:39
your thumb wow they they will drop on the ground in late April early May and
38:46
that's when the mousse is free of thicks and then what happen is the females will
38:52
lay their eggs there on the litter on the ground and then the eggs will atch
38:58
later in the summer normally by mid late summer and they will become what we call
39:03
larvae and The larva will live will just do their own things in the vegetation in
39:09
the litter and then when comes uh about September they will start to Quest so
39:15
that means they will look for high vegetation and then they will just go up the vegetation about uh two to three
39:21
feet high and then they will just hang out there until something wow passes and
39:27
they could grab onto it that is insan that is insane Steve where do they fall you said they fall down to the ground
39:33
where do they fall from at that stage are they in trees and plants where are they from the moose no they they on on
39:39
the Moose they're they on the back of the moose and and then the F jum on the
39:45
ground so so the entire life cycle of this by the way what's the tick
39:50
called it's just called alus so winter tick is the right winter tick so it's
39:56
life cycle is spent either on the ground or
40:01
in a moose that's correct not a deer not a groundhog it could be so when they're
40:07
in the vegetation in September October they grab to anything that will pass by it could be you it could be a deer it
40:14
could be a dog it could be a moose and then what happens is uh the larvae is
40:20
quite small and it's hard to see and uh it's just on the moose or on any animal
40:26
and then uh it will start at some point in late fall to start to eat uh blood
40:33
and then they will transform from Lara to nymphs and then they will be still very
40:39
small and not very itchy but most animals are pretty good at grooming they have what we call program grooming so
40:46
they would remove the ticks like if it's a deer the deer are pretty good at grooming they will remove most of the
40:52
ticks wow and then the nym will St will take another uh blood meal uh normally
40:59
they do that by late January or February and then they become adults and that's
41:04
when the problem starts uh because the adults are much bigger they take much
41:09
bigger uh blood meals and then it becomes very hitchy and that's when the
41:14
Moose starts to Rob on trees try to get rid of the ticks but it's most of the
41:20
time it's too late uh because they haven't taken care of the Tex before like like there or else will do and then
41:28
sometimes there are just too many like there could be 50 60 70,000 of those
41:34
things on the Moose at the time if it's a a region where the infestation rate is
41:39
quite high and and for some animals like the calves for instance uh if they have
41:45
75,000 winter takes on them it could pump up um like three qus of their blood
41:51
volume when they feed in the spring so it's not just the the itching and the
41:57
air loss they also um lose condition uh they stop feeding because they're busy
42:03
trying to get rid of the ticks and they became they become very weak and that's why we see winter mortality in very very
42:11
late winter early spring and at that time um it's they just can't take it
42:18
anymore and then they basically die of exhaustion and starvation and normally it's quite
42:25
synchronized like here in Quebec for instance most of the Moose will die within about 10 days 10 days all of them
42:33
within that period all of those that are about to die and obviously the calves are a lot more vulnerable than adults
42:39
the adults have a lot of takes but they can normally survive better they would lose condition uh it may reduce their
42:46
reproduction for adult females they may produce only one calf instead of two or not reproduce at all but they have a
42:54
higher chance of survival but for the calves in some years it's it's really
42:59
bad and I guess we'll discuss that later but it could have high impact on on on
43:05
the survival rate is there Stephen is there any scientific you guys have come up with the reason why the Moose are not
43:12
as good groomers as a deer or an elk or do they just not feel the ticks early or
43:17
is there a reasoning for that why why the Moose you know what I mean yeah it's it's a really good question they're like
43:23
that for any ectoparasites like the the mooves don't have program grooming probably uh because they're they're so
43:30
big and um they they haven't evolved with a tons of ectoparasites to uh to to
43:37
deal with but they're they're really bad at at at grooming like uh we don't really know why but we know that's some
43:44
that's definitely what they do like they they start to take care of the text when it's too late right and you you you're
43:51
calling this programmed grooming so meaning that it's programmed in the animal that it must yeah so it's part of
43:58
their genetics it's part of it's a behavior like any other Behavior that's being selected and that it's part of the
44:05
baval repertoire of of it's like a dog like dogs you don't have dogs but dogs when they get fleas they see dig in with
44:11
their teeth they just you see them doing that that's got to be the same idea as that I got to get rid of whatever that is right so that's um well the deer do
44:19
that all the time like you see them biting all over their body they're scratching and taking small bites just
44:25
like you described with the dog so they're much better at it than the than the Moose is this something that we're
44:32
just noticing now when I say now I mean I I've been
44:37
doing I would say it's been 10 years that I've been talking about moose and
44:43
and this tick where was it beforehand or did we just not know about it we just thought
44:49
well that's a sick looking moose and oh it died you know we're not really knowing no it's been around for a while
44:55
uh they were well in Canada most of the pionering work was done by Bill Samuel
45:02
and Alberta as far back as in the 70s oh wow okay and he did quite a bit of work
45:08
there on on winter ticks and so we've known them for a while um they've been around for much longer than that uh but
45:17
in eastern in the eastern part of the country uh in Ontario but especially in Quebec they were not very common before
45:24
because that's a also dependent on the on the winter and that was that's what I was
45:30
going to ask you you know as as our climate obviously changes and we're this
45:35
winter in particular this winter is a good example at least here here it is anyways um does that give a whole new
45:43
opportunity to these ticks do they do do you think they're going to expand with warmer weather yeah that's what we're
45:50
seeing now like we've started to see the first cases of mortality in Quebec in about 200 too and and the prevalent so
45:58
the number of animals with ticks have also increased steadily since then and
46:04
we didn't have that before or not to that level uh because a lot of the ticks
46:09
when they were dropping from the moose in late April they will just drop on the snow and they will just die there and
46:16
that would be the end of it same in the fall like early snow in the fall will be
46:21
negative for the survival of the larva and they will not be ble to Quest so that find a host and a lot of them will
46:29
die so to get rid of the ticks we want as much a late spring as possible and as
46:35
much as an early winter as possible but now these things are changing and we get early Springs more and more often and we
46:43
get late onset of winter also more and more often so that the conditions are
46:49
good in the fall for the ticks and the conditions are good in the spring for the females to lay their eggs and their
46:55
eggs also to to survive better and throughout that time uh the
47:00
tick it's all bit a bit like an arm raise the tick are also developing better ways to infect their host right
47:08
so they also survive better in the summer and we're conducting a bunch of experiments now I have a PhD student
47:15
working on that try to see how they survive as larva in the litter and uh we
47:22
have an experiment right now in the bush seeing if they could survive a winter because everybody always said they
47:27
cannot survive a winter if they're not on a host but I'm questioning that now it
47:34
might still be the case but they may be able in even in some regions to survive
47:40
that so all this climate change in conjunction with another very important
47:47
uh factor that is the Moose density like to have epics that would cause mortality
47:52
you need both a winter tick population that is doing well but you also need a a
47:57
population of H that is doing well and in Quebec uh the last 15 20 years we had
48:03
very high Mose density especially in the southern part of the province much higher than we used to have uh in the
48:10
70s and 80s when I grew up we didn't have these densities of Mose now it's as started to decrease like in Ontario and
48:18
the good years of high density of moose are behind like the next decade or is
48:24
not going to be as good what we were used to in the last well
48:29
two decades now that it's that been good wow so if you have high density of moose and good climate conditions you're
48:36
looking at the risk of having hepic with a white negative effects of winter tick
48:42
you ever find you ever find a deer dead deer from the winter ticks do they is it
48:47
a bad thing with deer at all or is it just mostly moose it's mostly moose because the the tck well the deer have
48:53
ticks but they groom them so they don't build high so if you have only like a
48:59
handful of ticks like they're big but that's not going to be a big effect on
49:05
on the animal but when you have thousands of them that's when the impact gets higher they're not they're not
49:11
transferring anything into the animal then these ticks are unlike some other ticks where where they will transfer
49:19
Solutions into the animal in order to make the area numb so that the animal doesn't feel them there like they're
49:25
they're just pretty primitive in this sense they just grab on they eat when they want to eat they're not really
49:31
evolved to the point where they could trick the animal to not even knowing that it's on there no they really know
49:37
they're there is just that obviously all all blood eating animals they when they
49:43
feed they will inject an anti-coagulant in there that in the so that the blood
49:48
keeps coming through but other than that no they're uh they're just doing their
49:53
things uh and they're not har they're not harmful other than the the
50:00
transferring of blood out of the animal there's no nothing else that they are uh putting into the animal such as bacteria
50:07
and that type of thing that might kill it which might also transfer maybe to humans that are consuming animal that's what I'm getting at so there's nothing
50:14
for moose Hunters to worry about if they shoot an animal and it has a lot of
50:22
ticks on it they they can still harvest the animal just like they would any other moose yeah so no that's that's
50:29
fine for that good point that's a great Point well you know you look at that you say I'm not eating that I'll call the
50:34
ministry and say see you later what about uh these are not lime disease types of texts correct no so there
50:41
there's two things with that like Lyme disease it's transmitted by another species of ticks that we call Black leg
50:47
ticks U there's no evidence of any disease or bacteria or anything in the
50:52
winter ticks doesn't mean that it will always be like that it could happen one day like lime disease has not always
50:58
been in Black lied ticks and in in Deer and mouse and and mice and all these so
51:05
but for now there's nothing negative for humans or for the Moose in in Winter
51:10
ticks except that they just take blood and um so that's that's that's all fine
51:16
with that like and don't don't forget that when a hunter Harvest a moose most
51:22
of the Moose would be harvested in October right where the Moose has no
51:27
ticks or just very tiny Lara right sorry that's my phone no that's very uh very
51:34
small larva that um that you cannot really see most hunters will not notice
51:40
them and when they skin the animals they remove the skin it's just gone and uh
51:46
the meat is perfectly fine and there's no chance of that tick transferring to a human right uh no it could go on a human
51:54
but you will see it it and you will just remove it as any as any other ticks wow
52:00
wonder how many ticks you and I have actually had I mean we we've been in the bush so many years I mean Dean's had
52:05
them Mikey bur gets them every year but the stuff we do we don't hunt but we have I thought about this this morning
52:11
as I was going through my head that we were going to be doing this program with Steve you know what I thought of I
52:17
thought of all those years that we spent in the bush in the jungle in the
52:24
gnarliest are on the planet the Northwest Territories have we ever checked ourselves for I don't think we
52:30
have no we've never really looked we got lucky we very lucky but
52:36
[Music]
52:47
absolutely we interrupt this program to bring you the much anticipated bonus code for the latest fishing candada
52:53
giveaways this week's code code is Moose that's m o o s e all in capitals moose
53:02
just type that in the bonus code section of the contest and receive 100 free entries towards all our current
53:08
giveaways for those who haven't entered yet what the heck are you waiting for
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head on over to fishing canada.com while you listen to the rest of this episode click contest and sign up for all the
53:20
latest fishing canidate giveaways and now back to the show
53:26
abely um this study that you're conducting I'm assuming there's a reason
53:31
not what I mean by that is are you looking to maybe are you looking for a way of eradicating this thing at some
53:38
point are you looking for maybe a a uh deterrent that that the Moose can I
53:46
don't know ingest are you looking like what are you doing with the study what's I mean we see and the reason I say that
53:51
we see what's happening it's very visual we see these animals infested what's the
53:57
point of the study yeah right now U the study we're doing is really to better understand the
54:04
winter ticks and the impact it has on the Eastern moose so that's that's the main goal um obviously uh we want to
54:13
come up with u with recommendations of uh what would be good or not good to uh
54:19
to decrease the risk of having really high um like years with very high winter
54:26
tick infestations uh we're not at a point where we want to treat Moose for uh like
54:32
every single moose in the forest because that's just not visible so what we've been doing is U we started a coloring
54:40
program with GPS callers as quite a few folks do and we've done that in five
54:46
different studies are we have spread in from Southern New Brunswick to uh to different areas in in the whole province
54:52
of Quebec and every other moves that we catch we treat it with an ectoparasites
54:58
so we call it with a it's an anti an carite that will remove the
55:04
ectoparasites so we give him a ballis that he injects when we handle the animal and we also spray um the product
55:12
on its back and what happens with that is is it greatly reduces the number of
55:18
ticks the animal as but all the rest remains unchanged like the animals are
55:24
in the same habit T they just do their own things right uh we do that in every region every other move so we can
55:30
isolate the impacts of tick so when we look at survival we know that the moves are all the same the only difference is
55:36
is we remove the tick from that one y and then when we look at habitat selection when we look at U all sorts of
55:44
different parameters the only thing that change is uh the tick so that we can really understand what is the role of
55:51
tick and to give you a very concrete example Le uh like here we have a study
55:57
area just uh just uh yeah 20 km from my office in kbec city so just outside
56:04
Quebec City and last year um every calf that we caught we normally catch them in
56:11
January uh when the ticks are on and we look at the survival from January to April so only four months like basically
56:18
the the the heart of the through the heart of the winter and every single calf that we caught and treated
56:25
uh survived the winter and all those that we did not treat but one died over that winter wow
56:34
so that don't have to be a big rocket scientist with complex stats to understand that's an extreme year
56:40
normally it's not as bad as that normally we'll look at like 40% mortality rate but in some years it's
56:46
bad like in Maine last year they colored over 100 calves and the mortality rate
56:52
from January to April was 86 6% so you wipe wipe out almost an entire
57:00
cohort yeah is it possible though and we just did a podcast recently with some
57:06
scientists regarding uh the handling of certain fish species after they're originally caught and a lot of things
57:13
came up in that podcast you know because sometimes we focus on the obvious and
57:18
don't see other contributing factors first thing I'm thinking about as you're talking is it possible that the moose
57:27
that you colored obviously they were stressed traumatized uh they went
57:33
through this whole procedure of of being caught in the first place and then handled and then a collar's placed on
57:38
them and then off you go is it possible that any of that would have contributed to the mortality rate because the animal
57:46
was maybe already weak with the tick problem and then by doing this we kind of contributed to it yeah no as as I
57:54
said we do that to every other mousse we catch so that means that uh we treat one
58:00
the next one we don't treat it we treat one the next one we don't treat it but you don't see the the the non-treated animal you don't see anymore we do no we
58:08
do because we put a collar on and we follow exactly the same way as the other one so all those that were treated and
58:14
out of colors survived so they went through the same procedures the other one same comparing app to Apples then
58:20
yeah everything so that's that's the power of this EXP expent is that it's
58:26
it's actually an experiment so we control for all the factors except the one we want to infer on which is the
58:33
impact of winter tick all the rest is the same is it possible that that we could take this I'm assuming you you put
58:40
a chemical or something to get rid of the tick or prowder or whatever form it's in is it possible that this could
58:46
be used um as a means of of getting rid of the
58:53
tick before it gets on the host in other words when it's on the ground spray spray the area with the airplane is
58:59
spraying or something yeah is it possible that that might happen no well a lot of people think about that
59:05
especially to put it on salt blocks yeah but the problem is when they use the salt block in the spring they don't have
59:12
tick on oh and uh the ticks will only come in October where they're interested
59:17
in other things than than Salt like they may go at salt blocks but they're mainly looking for mate and they're they're not
59:23
into salt anymore um so and you need quite a high dose to this to be
59:30
effective so uh so that that's not easy and if you only put it on the back
59:35
that's not working uh we tried that the first year we need also to have a Bolis ingested oh wow so it's a little more
59:43
complicated thought it's if you don't have your hand on the Moose it's complicated and it doesn't last forever
59:49
like animals like people that are let's say you have moose in a zoo or uh or
59:54
deer or whatever at home um you have to do that like uh like people do with
1:00:01
their dogs like they will treat them uh these products were originally made for dogs or for horses but they are cattles
1:00:10
and they do that like several times a year so that they get rid of the ticks are you talking is it Permethrin you're
1:00:16
talking about or is it something like that it is perrian is one of those and faner is the other one so we use both
1:00:23
but we had to modify the peritan because that's the first one we use on the back of the Moose the first year but the the
1:00:29
commercial concentration is too small to have an effect so we have to increase that so we we Dean's a hunter here Dean
1:00:37
the producer that you talked to and he looked it up and he found that Permethrin was illegal to use that as a
1:00:43
Canada or just a Ontario I think it was a federal thing I thought Federal so for us we can't use it you're using it
1:00:49
obviously as a scientist is it illegal to be used in Quebec as well like across the country that's true yeah okay now
1:00:56
what do you think about what would you think about getting that so we could use it in the country what's your opinion on
1:01:02
that should we be using Permethrin to an extent well it's not going to change
1:01:07
anything because uh like all the moose that are in the forest they're not going
1:01:13
to be near human beings for for most of their life except when they're hunted right so there's there's no real
1:01:19
practical way like the way we're going with that is really to understand the impact of ticks like right now we know
1:01:25
they have a really big impact on mortality of Cals and now we need to move on that's what we're doing right
1:01:31
now like we're looking at habitat selection of ticks and habitat selection of of moose and we try to determine
1:01:38
where are the most risky spots for the moves to hang out and what are the type
1:01:43
of forest or Forest management that will be positive for the tick and negative
1:01:49
for the ticks and our hope is to be able to come up with recommendations about
1:01:54
forestry treatments that will we won't get rid of the ticks but that will be
1:02:00
decreasing the number of ticks at least not enhancing their survival or being favorable to
1:02:06
them and U and try to manage the forest that way so that we can at least reduce
1:02:13
the number of ticks that are picked up by Moose so let let's say not we're not worried about spreading the whole world
1:02:19
of Permethrin what about per usage on a hunter and on an angler if we could get
1:02:25
if it was legalized in our clothing if we could spray it on our clothing to help us for deer ticks and for Lyme disease you know you're really pushing
1:02:31
them to give me the answer just want to know his opinion he he could say he could say that's terrible that's good or whatever I'm just wondering from a
1:02:37
health stpoint from a health standpoint if you're if you're if we just got a little bit of infusion maybe you buy
1:02:42
clothing with it in there he wants your buyin Steve he's looking for your buyin we want to use the stuff do you believe
1:02:48
in that stuff should we exact Steve you and I you and I and N will we'll get a clothing line going here pretty soon
1:02:54
don't you worry after this what do you think that's the first time I hear that one to be honest uh
1:03:00
because uh normally for humans it's it's just on your clothes so you just
1:03:06
right remove them from your clothes so that's I see what you're saying and you don't it normally you don't pick a lot
1:03:13
like I do I hunt Moose every year I hunt deer every year and uh it's very rare
1:03:19
that I would pick some um when I do pick some or my student students pix some is
1:03:25
when we go on cluster of points of moves in the spring and we know these moves
1:03:31
were heavily infected when we caught them and then we go doing flagging try to estimate the number of ticks in the
1:03:38
environment and some days they don't get any but sometimes they go in hot spots and they ride in the middle of something
1:03:44
and then they their trousers are just covered with winter tcks we're we're thinking we're thinking more in terms of
1:03:50
we're not even thinking of winter tick we're thinking more in terms of deer black Leed T right for the lime disease
1:03:58
problem and we heard and it and it seems to be effective that uh it is probably
1:04:03
the only thing that you can put on your clothing that will repel them yeah repel them and make you feel good about being
1:04:09
out there but unfortunately it's not uh uh allowed to be sold in Canada so yeah
1:04:15
but I don't think it would work like a regular Reelin too because it's a it's it's something that's spread very like
1:04:22
it's it's really greasy so it needs to emulsify on the animals so that's very thick when you pour it normally and it
1:04:29
needs time just to to go very very slow through the hair and on the skin and uh
1:04:35
if you would do that you would have a it would have to be on your legs to work and you will have very greasy legs for a
1:04:42
while so I'm not sure okay this is interesting and I know we're a little off topic so if I spray it on my
1:04:48
clothing if there was a way of of getting rid of the oil in make it more
1:04:53
water like make it sprayable making it sound like it's not spray I like anell yeah it's sprayable it's sprayable
1:05:00
because they use it on horses in a spray form right and and and and and the
1:05:05
concept for us is to spray it on our clothing especially the lower portion of the body where you're walking through
1:05:11
high grasses and stuff um even if it's got to be sprayed every time out I think
1:05:18
it would if if it's repelling the ticks which I believe it is I mean that's that's a huge huge home run as far as
1:05:25
I'm concerned for for deer TCH I'm talking about yeah well the other thing
1:05:30
too you it's uh with this product they have to eat it uh to be infected to be
1:05:36
affected because that uh it's acting on their nervous system oh so it's not like
1:05:43
a mosquito Reelin that they don't like the smell or anything like that so if you have it on cloth they will still
1:05:48
have to eat it and if they're just on your clothes they will not be taking blood or attaching to you so I'm not a
1:05:56
specialist of course of pharmaceutical products but I have doubts that it would work uh readily as a spraying on clothes
1:06:04
but it's interesting we learn something new they sell infused drgs per infused
1:06:09
clothing so feel good about that now I'm still using it Dean didn't say that by the way
1:06:16
anybody listening um it's a fascinating topic what's the duration of the study how
1:06:22
long you you guys going to working on this yeah that study was uh it's it's a
1:06:28
fiveyear study uh including three years of field work so we've just wrapped up the field work now we've put like over
1:06:35
almost 350 callers out wow in five different regions so that was a really big uhu really big investment and uh
1:06:43
we're working on the analysis right now and uh and writing up the the result
1:06:50
what's the deal what's the deal with that if a hunter is out there and he sees a collared
1:06:56
moose is he still allowed to harvest that mousse or not yes they are we
1:07:02
thought about that uh first in some regions because most of the our our main
1:07:08
interest for us is between January and April May ah so there's no real concern
1:07:13
with Harvest but we leave the callers on until late October uh because we want to
1:07:19
look at habitat selection of moose especially in early fall uh just to try
1:07:25
to assess where they go uh where they will pick up ticks because that's one
1:07:30
thing is where they drop them so the tick are not going to walk for like hundreds of kilometers so the tick the
1:07:36
places where they drop them in the spring should be the most dangerous PL to get
1:07:41
reinfected to go in the fall so we're comparing spring habitat selection with winter with uh early fall habitat
1:07:48
selection so uh after that uh the cers has a drop off anyway and will drop on
1:07:54
the ground so I don't really care if I get it back in the bush or if the hunter kills it as long as he's not shooting in
1:08:01
my collar I'm I'm happy with that what do these things do in the meantime
1:08:08
obviously you've studied it so what are they doing in the meantime in terms of nourishment do they even need
1:08:14
nourishment while when they drop are they they're not feeding then just not
1:08:19
feeding at all they're just hanging around yeah well you mean when after the female
1:08:24
lay their HS well well at some point these things leave the Moose they drop
1:08:30
off right and they start their I'm assuming their reproduction cycle right
1:08:35
away they would the female the males die they die okay and the females will just
1:08:42
hatch uh will just lay the eggs lay the eggs he died okay and then the lar the
1:08:49
eggs will atch a Lara will come and then that's a new generation coming so the big females that like full of blood and
1:08:57
things after they they lay their eggs they're they're done dead so they have one one cycle one year for that one
1:09:03
season and they're done and then the larva well that's what we think unless they can survive as larva under snow for
1:09:11
one winter but that would be a breakthrough we don't know that yet but that's not impossible as we used to say
1:09:18
I think okay interesting it's it's a fascinating subject and uh thank God there's people working on getting
1:09:24
Solutions because as uh as Outdoors people sometimes we take it for granted right we get up in the morning grab our
1:09:31
hunting gear fishing gear get in the truck pick up your buddy go out enjoy a great day you don't realize how much
1:09:38
work and how many people are behind the scenes making sure that we have the
1:09:44
resources available to us and and for that we thank you uh uh you and your group and and I'm sure that there are
1:09:51
similar uh programs going on in other parts of the country maybe in uh in
1:09:56
North America um and we app appla starting a program now uh we just met
1:10:03
with them in mid December and they're starting a program in Moose uh just
1:10:08
north of Thunder Bay that's their plan right now for also the next five years so you probably going to hear about that
1:10:14
in the next few years quite a bit in Ontario what about Labor Newland because apparently there's a high population of
1:10:20
moose there is there a high population of winter tix there uh that's a good questions I don't work
1:10:27
much in New Finland uh I don't think it's as important as it is on the
1:10:32
continent uh but that's a question I I don't have the answer to that's a good one I don't think there'd be any ticks
1:10:38
in Newland that's just a wonderful part of the world they let go exactly nothing happens bad
1:10:45
there so true Steve thank you very much for joining us we appreciate your time I know you you got a busy schedule and we
1:10:53
appreciate you you sharing some of that time with us and uh shining the light on this thing that we've been wondering
1:10:59
about for years best of luck in your studies thank you for doing thank you very much it was a pleasure thank you uh
1:11:04
Steve cot um from uh Quebec obviously in
1:11:09
Quebec City University of laal thank you very much uh interesting subject matter
1:11:15
you know and I'm not kidding you when we this morning as I'm getting ready to come out here I thought about that
1:11:22
because we used to pride ourselves in in walking through the gnarliest
1:11:27
ugliest remote parts of the world with shorts on oh yeah with shorts on the boot we never wore lock pads yep but
1:11:35
even as kids like just walking in the bush like from from childhood to to last
1:11:41
summer you know we just do it all the time right so we did it all the time and do it all the time we we're just knck on wood lucky we're lucky that we haven't
1:11:47
got I've got them once well as you know and it was and you got all of yeah you got and did the whole deal with the
1:11:53
pills and all that and and I got to be honest with you I don't know whether I would have
1:11:59
caught that had it not been for somebody Nick yeah in this case
1:12:04
getting it saying I I think I got a tick cuz we never checked oh God no it was I
1:12:11
see that I might see a little one there I'd think it was a mosquito bite okay that's a mosquito bite I got bit by a blackfly okay that's what you do I swear
1:12:20
though I I at one point in my life I think I had lime disease I think I've told you went through about two or three
1:12:25
years of hell um with that whole thing but anyways uh interesting
1:12:31
subject that are it my friend aside from letting F your mind keep going just your
1:12:37
mind just gets going but all these poor deer you see or moose and deer but see it makes you itchy exactly and it just
1:12:43
looks so gross and I I feel for them when they're rubbing against that tree and I mean he wipes out 100 and there's
1:12:48
still 2,000 left on them you know somewhere else it's like oh my God crazy and it must run out of the woods just in
1:12:55
sheer desperation you know yeah it's got to be annoy like imagine a couple thousand bugs biting you and eating your
1:13:02
blood anyway that are it uh don't forget fishing canada.com the portal the
1:13:07
gateway to your Outdoor Adventures awaits you we are giving away all kinds of goodies there make sure you're
1:13:14
getting your fair share of them that's a good way of putting yeah I see we just sent another uh uh Panasonic unit
1:13:22
scanning unit somewhere in nor in Ontario or something I don't know Panasonic Panasonic I don't know you
1:13:28
talking about panoptics is that what you're trying to talk about sure why not we just sent oh I know it was an actual
1:13:34
trip yes we did uhic Point yep Nordic Point Lodge obviously somebody has to
1:13:40
win this stuff folks it might as well be you because somebody is going to take it home yes if it takes a little bit of
1:13:46
work think about that too maybe you put more than one ballot in maybe put two ballots in maybe put
1:13:53
200 bad I can say from a guy behind the scenes the people who win usually put a lot of work into there you go
1:14:00
folks burst my bubble why you want people an says anybody can win anyone
1:14:06
can win but more bur my bubble it's a meritocracy the more effort it's a what
1:14:12
meritocracy based on Merit you know what that is oh yeah like look at you Mr
1:14:18
napy I'm based I'm all about Merit I'm based my whole life is Merit so uh okay
1:14:24
it's interesting so the more you put in definitely we have the proof we have the data to prove the more you put in the
1:14:31
better your chance of winning yep see see there you go we're even totally transparent uh to you folks that it uh
1:14:39
thank you for joining us once again on behalf of the entire team Boba Nick Dean and Peter I'm Angelo thank you folks
1:14:47
talk this in
1:14:56
[Music] [Applause] [Music]
1:15:05
oh
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