The Self-Cloning Crayfish Invading our Lakes | Outdoor Journal Radio ep. 156

Name: The Self-Cloning Crayfish Invading our Lakes | Outdoor Journal Radio ep. 156
Uploaded: 2025-03-20T23:27:36+00:00
Duration: 1 h 44 min 52 s

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[Applause] this episode of Outdoor Journal radio is brought to you in part by the invasive
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species Center protecting Canada's land and water from invasive species Freedom
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Cruise Canada rent the boat own the memories jmbb cyc a marine your home for
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all things Power Sports boats and equipment and sail the ultimate
0:31
destination for your Outdoor Adventures here he goes here we go
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hello let me get that let me get that for you see if I had an able-bodied assistant who could do that stuff for me
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it would be okay are you kidding me time I'm not a timer guy not good how y'all
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doing good yourself excited today excited uh exciting episode great guest
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coming up uh on a subject that you and I seems over the last couple of years have
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been hearing more and more about we don't know anything about it but we're hearing more and more about it so but
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yet our angling lives has been influenced by it oh my God numerous times throughout the years every time we
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go fishing pretty much pretty much on the board joining us uh here shortly is
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a world-renowned scientist Canadian scientist he is an independent contractor a crayfish biologist if you
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will come on now uh his name is is Dr primac Hammer and he is the authority he
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is the voice when it comes to crayfish he's the man he is the man in fact they
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call him Dr crayfish in some circles that's how that's right uh but anyways a
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fascinating guy will come up talk to us here in a few minutes about a problem we have in this part of the world in in
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Canada in general and us uh with invasive uh crayfish yeah you wouldn't think right now we say we're we're
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talking crayfish you were think oh good we're going to talk about fishing part of it and all that kind of it's a lot more to a problem that's
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what we want to talk about yeah but there's a there's more to this subject people so you might want to stick around
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fish in Canada the store who fish in Canada fish in Canada by the way I've
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heard of those guys by the way I just want to uh give a shout out to my uh my
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um actually two people uh Tim Dawson from campus crew and my grandson Nikki
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give me a hell who uh who uh uh come up with this wonderful hoodie which obviously is part of the
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campus Crew lineup that you see behind us but this one is a one of just for Mah
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that they materials and everything right it's the same hoodie it's just uh hey it's almost exactly the same as this
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same as that same as that one there yeah just got my my 69 zetter 69 Z the Z on
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there anyways thank you uh very much uh for making that happen anyway uh at the store fishing canada.com the or shop.
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fishing Canada fishing canada.com I wonder how many people try and get got
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be a tough one it's got to be a tough one how many people try and they put an ing or or they put an apostrophe
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inop you know we might have screwed up on that oh I think there was a big screw up on that I mean but but but when you
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invented this it was just television there was no worries of internet people typing it wrong they see it and they say
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hey I might have to spell that one it's actually available for sale fishing canada.com with the ing y yeah I know
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they've been trying to sell that for 100 years oh um
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um my question would be how much I didn't even bother I don't I don't need
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it I got enough problems here yeah no kidding uh my question being could we change it at this point in our lives
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well we are changing it right there we're not putting the apostrophe in and when we have to put it in the we ite or an email address so it is kind of CH but
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even that though shop. fishing canada.com seems like an awful lot of
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effort what if it was just fncc that's what I say fnc would be just so easy our
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whole lives would have been but uh but people didn't like fnc a lot of people didn't like the fnc changeover too right
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yeah obviously you know we can't spend the rest of our lives where there's a lovely count that's going by again
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hello fnc.up.nic the fnc is an old war gun Canadian war
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gun if I'm not mistaken uh Dean can you look at that can you look that up quickly if you say
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fnc gun I think you're going to find that there was it was a war gun a very it was a gun I can't put that on the
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screen because we'll get demonetized it is it is a gun it is a gun Enfield I think manufacturer well
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you didn't know the manufacturer I don't matter well it does matter gun's a gun long as I own it true I need it anyways
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uh on fishing canada.com the shop you'll see all kinds
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of goodies no guns no not right now but not right now we got a couple for
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sale there so don't you worry uh let us know what you think when you go there by the way is this a poll there that you
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want them to do Dean is that what what I'm hearing here when they go to press the x button before they leave they're
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going to get prompted with a poll oh we would love them to fill that out love
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that's the lovely Dean Taylor by the way anybody who might not be familiar with him so you get the Lovely Countess and
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the lovely de count we got boa is vaa lovely too oh V's lovely all the time
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Nick is in his office right now lovely lovely Nick bailed on us I think we should put
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a camera in that room and so he could be with us while we do the podcast but just
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as a from a secondary location no I think we get demonetized yeah there might be a lot of demonetizing you might
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want to put a gun up on that stream instead of that to be honest with you well has something to do with
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loading your gun and unloading your gun so I mean technically you know true
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enough true that you know it is a handgun there got to be one person that would like to watch it I don't know whe
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too many but there might be one six son of a [ __ ] out there uh season 39 did I
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tell you folks season 39 to fishing can give me a hell yeah 69 and you got 39
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all about it's just nicely uh uh running down its course what episode is this is
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this 139 oh it's 154 sorry no no no no I'm talking to fishing Canada show I
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know I just thought it good season 39 is airing on global television network coast to coast to coast Saturday
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mornings Come On Now ladies and gentlemen if you weren't aware and I know there's a lot of you who are aware that we are not connected with the
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fishing Canada show people I know that but it's not true we are in fact those
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people you look like that guy on the I know I know I had a guy last night this was funny I had to on the way home I got
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a call say honey can you do the you know so I said sure So I run into the local grocery store it was like 8:00 run in
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there and I just got to pick up one item and I'm going to run back out and I have it's all like in my mind I know exactly
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where and how and it's going to take me exactly three minutes to get in and out and I'm I'm home and so I start my
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mission and I run and and I'm going past the deli and there's a guy standing there ordering some deli beats and it's
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like somebody phoned them he turns around and he literally got in my path
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you're how you doing he you met my son and me at the thing and we did this and
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oh my God it's Fant and I'm say oh that's great and you know me I hate being rude right and and I and I all
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always have time for everybody so don't take this the wrong way I love it but in
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this particular case I was really pushed for time so anyway so so I say yeah you
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know and the whole thing and and and I and I'm trying to get away but he's standing in my he's literally blocking
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my way so you know what I did it was embarrassing to say this cuz I'm not
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that type of guy but I literally had to turn around and walk back the way I came
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and go around another part of the store no way it was wild holy moly crazy I
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mean I love you thank you and that's uh but was he just wanted to keep going he would let a great guy his son his son
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met us somewhere years ago and uh it changed his life and and and that it was
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a fantastic story and we just love hearing this stuff there's very few
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times in my life where I don't give 100%
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to stuff like that because it's what we work for but this was the one case where
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I had to be in and out and I had it all mapped out calculated in my head I knew exactly how it was going to go down I've
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done it a million times I'm going to go in slide through the back over there counter five pick up out the door in 3
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minutes I'm back on the way the last thing I expected was this big b guy big
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lineer blocking you up anyways that's the best God love you great little skit
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I'd love to see a camera on that my God that'd be perfect I swear to God it was like
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somebody called him because he was focused on the deli counter talking to the guy behind there ordering his Meats
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I'm walking up the aisle he didn't do one of those double takes like you know the normal people do right just because
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they can't believe he literally just jumped back turned around and just went
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at it you were fresh beat to him you get the fresh meat counter there
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oh that's great what a great anyway uh season 39 fishing candada yes we are the fishing candidate guys uh if you've not
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watched the show before well I don't know what you've been doing but you might want to change that Saturday
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morning interesting now that you listen to us a little bit and check us out on the TV too or on a Monday on the uh
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YouTube channel there you could do that or a Monday you could go to the Sportsman Channel or you could go to wfn
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us or you could go to YouTube or a little disappointed in w I what matter
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so I love them I have I I have their station and all that I watch it all the time but whenever they talk about the
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Canadian Fridays or whatever day it is that I've never seen those on once they have all the different Canadian
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Superstars and whatever well maybe we're not Superstars you think of that well I think we've been there long enough that
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they should have us along with others not us alone I think along with others a
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little disappointed funny you see that huh should look into it um um uh heli
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was supposed to be on this on an episode with he's from Sportsman Channel Sportsman's Channel he used to be a wfn
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well it's the same people guys is it I believe so yeah it is what do you mean you believe it's the same people it's
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all owned by the same group so we can talk to heli heli in fact the the deal I
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did with wfn was done through heli right so okay so whenever he comes on the show
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Dean was he supposed to be on am ice we tried to line it uping hunting season well I know he's
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very importent there's no doubt about that if you know heli you know what I'm talking about yes sir yes sir but
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anyways you know maybe a little love from the for the fishing Canada guys just to show a little picture of that Lake troat right there up there and
11:46
holding that Laker you know well who else Nick up there if you have to who else is on that well there's there's
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others is there anybody left in the business I thought you and I were like the only no there's there's Co there's
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West Coast stuff right DC stuff there's uh a couple of ontarians that are still
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out there wow um one is on I'm not sure if the other one is I don't think he is
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okay um so and they were up there and we ate H so I mean I know we're not the
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prettiest guys in the world and I could probably foresee that you know they might not show our faces but there is
12:25
something wrong here because there is something wrong cuz I got a call I told you this I think I told you if I didn't
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tell you I'll tell you here now on the show I got a call the other day from a good friend of ours he used to be an
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employe of ours he's still in the business and uh he said
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hey are you guys not With Yuri anymore I said yeah no no you're not
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okay not as far as I know yeah why well you're not on their website anymore
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I I went to the website to look at some stuff and I I I clicked on to the media
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and Pro Staff where you guys used to be you're not there anymore so maybe it's a trend maybe were
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we ever there yeah yeah you s for sure it seems well I see I don't want to say
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for sure but it seems to me that I don't early in our relationship I clicked on there just to check I got like to verify
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all the stuff and I and we were there I can honestly say I've never checked so I can't say but I know we
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were we're on the Garmin one uh you're on the Garin one for sure um I don't
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know about an Ontario tourism or I don't know youri that's interesting anyways we
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got to look into that boy they're starting to hate us now while I think we're being cancelled what is the the cancel culture you know what 39 years
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they're probably sick of us okay but wait one more year please we got our 40th coming please please hang in there
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one more year was I did I sound like a see there a little desperate there
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that's okay all right uh listener feedback yes this one's a good one
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because uh we uh were responding to this one in episode
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147 and it was a great question that was asked or great Point made uh by the
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person but we questioned because the the handle was ladybug Adventures we didn't
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know whether ladybug was male or female yeah and because ladybugs come in both male and female not to be confused with
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some crayfish that don't which you'll hear coming up here in the show you're smart oh I'm just just a weal biologist
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aren't you yeah that was my I you know there was only one thing that stood between me and a uh career in Science
14:49
Biology okay biology what was that one thing only grade seven that was
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it if I could have got through that bad boy I know oh I was off in in
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running just kidding for you kidy watching that make sure you take your vitamins you go kidding you're saying
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you better pass grade seven you need you're end up like that you don't want to be like that
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Jimmy anyways in response to episode 147 uh ladybug
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Adventures uh writes an email and uh uh it goes on to say that
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we read the comment on the show and uh one of ladybug's comment uh was about
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first of all questioning male or female and ladybug is male and the reason that
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uh the name Ladybug was used because him and his two daughters were setting up the account when they were little kids
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and ladybug seemed to fit I was a little worried when they first de said I want to write something to clarify some
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really funny questions that came up you know what he means by funny is I am indeed a guy so and the other thing that
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we implied I think Dean you implied this Dean was that he must be from BC because
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he was talking about uh barbas hooks right I assume because they're pretty passionate about barbas so I thought if
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someone would write in they would probably be from out there well he clarifies that too uh in fact I'm from
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Ontario he says so there although although he consumes a lot of West Coast
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um YouTube stuff apparently fishing videos ah so there's a bit of draw
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connection to uh to that now he says that um he's experienced both salmon and
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steel head uh using um barbless Hooks and oh how could you how land a steel
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head with bar I mean woo see they're nuts those River Steel out there oh that'd be a you'd lose a couple you'd
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have to you know I was thinking about this from a previous for another episode
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that we did about baress Hooks and I was thinking and I know here we go you always say that and
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I know here you go well because I get so many nasty people reaching out to me when I
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talk like this do they block you in grocery stores and everything like that they I'm canceled everywhere they cancel
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me everywhere you know but at the end of the day at the
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end of the day at the end of what are you stepen is Wicky now saying does he do that oh my God but the
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you now you and I have talked about this he says it a thousand times a day at the end of a day at the end of the day it
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you know it's all about the journey right you've heard this a million times before it's all about the
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journey is the the big Journey involved in fishing is it not the experience
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itself or is it being able to claim victory over that fish and victory it
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seems can only be claimed when you have that fish firmly in hand in front of a
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camera and it's it's done the deal is done now my conquest of this animal is
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complete and I release it and off you go I think you're just I think you're one
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step too far in that I I agree that's probably for the most part it but you don't have to have a camera cuz as any
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well that's the other question loves it they every fish they catch when they finally land it I got him okay
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release it and you're back again so it's that little competition I don't think you have to have a Campa that's that's your to somebody else whatever but see
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fishing should be in my opinion aside from the camaraderie that goes on between people whether it's family or
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friends aside from that but fishing is to me it's a solitary thing I feel good
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if I'm out there I don't care there's 100 people around me the moment during that Journey that's the highlight
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of that Journey that's for me I did it for me right it makes me
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feel good I think that's what everybody does so if I hook up on onto a steel head in this case or a salmon or
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whatever and and I've got barbless baits and or Hooks and the thing gets off
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halfway during our wonderful encounter so
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what so what that maybe to you that might be a so what issue that's why I
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went I went for that instant that that moment the highlight of that journey and
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in this case it was when it came out of the water and it slow mode you know did
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that thrashing and the water spots are all over the the sunshine and the gills
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and then it went that's the moment I'm in yeah okay
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I'm done I'm happy and that's why I think you know and I've said it before and I know I got
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some nasties attacking me for it I think we should I love that made a new you just I
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have to interrupt that's a new word that we could use for these internet nasties fups they're just nasty
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nasties you're a bunch of nasties and I'm I'm the anti- angler because I don't believe in barbed hooks no no no so
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people wouldn't think you're the anti-ang because that's the personal care that fish get it should be made
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mandatory I I think there should be no questions asked I think it should if it
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has to be enforced by by authorities God forbid but you know what if we have to
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bring authorities in to enforce it then we should enforce it and every hook should not have a Barb because at the
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end of the day you don't need it you don't need it I know you're saying yeah
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yeah but but but how about if I got that fish a lifetime I'm going to go I'm
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going to touch it any minute I'm going to grab it and touch and stroke that beautiful and he gets away I won't be
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able to tell my friends I won't be able to show them what am I going to
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do I know that I know there's that element I understand he say he does it
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every 13 episodes every year all the time yeah I know but we got to change it or we've evolved I used to drag my
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Knuckles now I tuck them my hands in my pocket each their own and to each their own and I have a competition with that
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fish see that's you're a competitor with other people I'm a competitor with that I'm competing with
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me remember that right it's not a competition it's me enjoying that moment
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okay but me I have to compete with that fish and I have to lure it into biting I want to get it there and I'm going to
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look at and say God you are a beautiful creature thank you Lord for that there you go or thank you Lord I'm going to
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cut them up and put them in the frying pan well that's a different ball game so whatever whatever reasoning I want to get that fish to the to the bank to the
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boat to the whatever and it's just different you can yeah you have your opinion but you can't say for somebody
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else why that Camaro burs too much gas in the environment you should have electric car oh well we'll talk about
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this wait wait everybody notice my beautiful Camaro we'll talk about this Camaro in a moment but I'd like to
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that's a nice but even to the detriment of a fish so
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so what you're saying is I must conquer and I must hold and I must be no because
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if fish if a fish is going going to be oh my God that fish is going to die I would say yeah cut my line do whatever I
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have no problem with that but you don't know that you don't know that but what we do know for a fact we do know and I
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don't think there's a respectable angler out there who will not agree with this no matter how much we want to stir it
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around and make it smell sweet would you call those people what was it nasties the nasties nties the nasties are coming
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okay right no matter how much we do that at the end of the day we'd have to be
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total morons to believe that zero contact with that fish is healthier or
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as healthy or not as healthy as mauling that
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fish okay right so so we know that zero contact but zero contact is going to
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ensure that that fish survives right so B fishing versus no see there's a nasty see he's one of your he's one of you in
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fact I am one of them he could be your leader truth be known be the leader he could be your leader I'll be a leader
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against moronic thoughts He Could Be Your Leader he needs Victory that's
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right I must conquer I love fishing I love catching fish take up something
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like if if it's a competition between you get into the UFC is looking for new
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characters you'd be perfect in UFC I'm getting to old the fish I don't know about this fighting game might be one
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thing I've noticed about fighting in my life it hurts my face every every time every damn time and I don't like it and
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you can't figure out why I don't what the hell every now and then hurts my balls too I was going to say your face
24:06
you're nuts what of the two anyways we're way off topic uh but I just wanted
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to share that thank you for uh writing in and not being uh being good with us and not being a nasty in the sense that
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we we didn't know if you were male or female so thank you for taking this uh and by the way ladybug apparently met
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you and uh Nick at at a Sportsman Show you go there you go I must have been ill
24:31
that day well you were probably about barbless thinging and whatever hell you were
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doing mandatory two things before I die folks there are two things I think these
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nasties are going to be two things taking that one on to and they're going to be in tandem trust me on this here we
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go and I'm not without my ability to influence people so so listen to me well
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there are two things that I want to take to my grave and I want to take to my grave
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that I somehow had a hand in enforcing two things I'm one one I agree with but
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the other I don't there you go barbless hooks on all fishing lures can I guess the next second one and life jackets in
25:14
the boat on the body the minute you step on the water there you go mandatory boom
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done don't have to and you know anyways don't get me started those are the two things that I would like to accomplish
25:28
before before I hang it all up and go off to wherever it is that I'm going to
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think you've gone off a long time ago God and if you agree with any by the
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way let us know if you're one of the nasties I don't want to hear from you yeah you
25:48
nasty don't waste your time you can get a hold of me yeah yeah nasties line up behind him he's he's the leader I'm the
25:54
king nasty I might I might be a UFC fighter too I got that's where you need to go you need to go duke it out with
26:02
somebody and and then when you have a victory a challenge you can actually claim to be superior than that fell that
26:09
you just knocked down you know what's crazy is that in my prime of all primes you were a fighter and and in shape and
26:16
all that I'd get my ass kicked by the smallest strawweight woman in that league in an instant it wouldn't even be
26:22
a competition one of those unranked ones that are so far down the line just getting into it they kick my ass I
26:28
wonder oh my God you have no there's no chance know especially those Jiu-Jitsu girls when I watched in the weekend the
26:35
world class ones never they tiee you up in a knot your nut sack could be over
26:41
your nose in you remember Billy Jean King and Bobby rigs Bobby rigs there should
26:48
be one of those for us yeah MMA oh my God no like where you take you know what
26:55
I mean I think tough maybe they've done it I don't know that I know Craig Jones fought a girl he
27:02
did Gabby Garcia or something he he beat her but he's a pro and did he beat her up like no no j- Jitsu only yeah just
27:09
grappling wow yeah he beat you know have you ever watched uh Eddie Hall you know the strongest man in the world the
27:14
British H him taking on two and three guys at the same time in an MMA ring that is hilarious watching that stuff no
27:21
but it's just something that made me think of it and he fires them around like the guy's my size or you know team Deans and my size and he throws him
27:27
around like a wet sack of [ __ ] anyway uh C there's something we
27:32
said Bo he just got that's the fighting boa doesn't like eating meat and he doesn't like fighting so he's he's good
27:38
he's I thought he'd endorse my two items that he'd be into endorsing those when
27:43
he he up and left pissed off him when he comes back you should ask him wow he only wears his light jacket because
27:50
because we make him you know that right so maybe he would do it now automatically but he wouldn't have done
27:55
it you know what I've noticed the only person who does not just get up and walk out on us anywhere is
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Dean I get up and walk out when I talk to the people on the phone well no but
28:08
but I know where you're going you're going you you got to finish your job right but you're the only person that
28:15
doesn't walk out on us everybody else from the from the CEST right down to to Nick yeah but they're not on camera
28:21
Dean's on camera so he's shown the responsibility of the I just think he's a very responsible young man come on now
28:27
has got a great future wow that's what I think that's my personal opinion I know
28:32
huh he's a handsome bastard to and he's a handsome young man too you know if I had a daughter marrying age right now I
28:38
would be focusing right there really I don't know if I go that far you go come
28:45
on now conservation Corner
28:52
Dino The Humble goldfish everyone's favorite aquatic pet it's small easy to
28:58
care for what's there not to love even the cat may be mesmerized by the color and movements of your aquarium friends
29:04
goldfish are great at home but don't let them loose releasing goldfish or other domestic aquatic pets or plants into
29:11
natural environments is harmful to both your pet and the planet goldfish disrupt ecosystems by out competing native
29:18
species for food and resources in degraded habitats they contribute to algae blooms they kill aquatic wildlife
29:23
and pass viruses and diseases contracted in aquariums to Wildfish they could even live up to 40 years and grow as big as a
29:31
football Anglers this is where you come in if you find a gold fish at your local
29:37
fishing spot report it to the invading species hotline or go online to Ed
29:43
maps.com remember to never dump your live bait into the water and risk spreading other Aquatic Invaders keep
29:49
our legs free from Invaders and don't let them loose [Music]
30:02
we interrupt this program to bring you the much anticipated bonus code for the latest fishing Canada giveaways this
30:08
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30:16
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the rest of this episode click contest and sign up for all the latest fishing Canada giveaways and now back to the
30:40
show uh in the news Dino in the news contrasts uh here
30:46
between two massive cases uh I was reading the second one
30:52
and I I second one's disturbing I had a hard time finishing it but I did the
30:58
Young on yeah nasty H the first one's pretty bad too but it's good it's a good outcome but but the first one is bad
31:05
don't get me wrong but you know it's kind of what you expect from poachers kind of what you expect to hear about
31:12
people that are breaking uh violating the rules and regulations multiple violations you know when when it comes
31:18
to harvesting animals it's not what you'd expect for the fine which is good in this it's not enough I see I no but
31:24
at least it's it's not the little yeah there you go right right so what was the total here 40,000 bucks
31:31
3571 plus 40 4600 right I think yeah so
31:36
yeah 40,000 bucks so 40,000 bucks for somebody who went out and uh illegally harvested uh two I believe it's two uh
31:45
white tails right two deer two deer I don't think it's enough I I think that that that yeah I agree and let me
31:51
I'll say the the charges here among the counts Alexander plead guilty were uh T
31:57
taking or possession of two deer hunting without a license hunting without a deer
32:03
permit selling illegally taken and possessed deer antlers spot lighting or
32:09
Jack lighting hunting without permission four counts of that tampering with
32:15
evidence theft misdemeanor theft and falsification it's not enough it's not
32:21
enough and the the part about this is I think the only is that it that's it so holy [ __ ] that's why think the fine was
32:28
so big because people care about deer that look like that like a specialer right there if that was a little Spike I
32:34
think he would have got like a th000 bucks yeah really that's all I really
32:40
well he got 4,000 for the other one for the second year right true 4600 so maybe another 4600 but it wouldn't have been
32:45
this big of a deal uh no that's an 18o buck apparently yeah wow absolutely massive look at this look at the
32:51
thickness the density of those I don't I don't get it yeah I don't get it either I don't get it it's
32:57
a I don't want to compare that to a human being by any means and we shouldn't but it is a living organism at
33:04
the end of the day and crimes if you take it illegally you are a criminal absolutely and therefore you need to be
33:11
charged like a criminal can you imagine if we change the way we deal with criminals that commit you
33:19
know I don't want to say it but commit offenses against other human beings that
33:25
that that that only get off with a fine instead of jail what do you mean there it's happening right now now okay well
33:32
yeah it happens every day now [ __ ] like that so there's a bunch of
33:38
[ __ ] uh but the one that really I mean that's bad enough you got to go check it out go go to fishing
33:44
canada.com and there's a whole and I'll guarantee you that boy that is not the only deer that boy has taken illegally
33:50
no you know what I mean that's long they they're like career criminals these guys they'll go and he'll get caught he'll go
33:56
it again two years from now guarantee you 3 years from now I think I can get away with that one now to catch and
34:02
release culture that we have with criminals is the problem right yeah and that's why the Second Story particularly
34:09
disturbs me uh this one took place in Ohio this other one is in Wisconsin uh
34:15
four Wisconsin poachers charged for killing over 100
34:22
oh 100 deer now I know the number should
34:28
not be the issue here but I cannot stop thinking about that number over 100 deer
34:36
because that's a very significant number and the other thing that's significant about this story this is even more
34:42
significant I think is that or sick it's young boys oh that miners yeah yeah
34:49
teaching them and the fact that they were out torturing and maming these
34:54
animals and did it over a period of time this was not done in one event which
35:00
this might have been you know a couple of days a spree but this took place over
35:06
a length of time a period of time that that would also tell you that it was
35:11
premeditated it wasn't just I went nuts for a day right uh 16year olds were involved and
35:20
am I right or am I wrong is there a mother involved the mother would drive them around so Mom was driving the
35:26
kitties out and was facilitating these kides going
35:35
out massacring she's driving the car and they were trying to hit deer with the car yeah she's the driver yeah and when
35:42
you read this story folks and I want you to read it because it it really uh smacks you in the face because this is
35:48
reality sometimes we get lost in our own little fantasy worlds and we we think everything is beautiful and you know
35:55
it's like Tim bits hockey everybody wins there's no losers and oh my God it's
36:00
such a wonderful well you need to read a story like this and bring you back to
36:06
Earth and understand that that that's we don't live in a fairy tale world we live
36:12
in reality and what the reality here is that a mother was facilitating uh kids under 16 years of
36:20
age to go out and and not only kill deer but actually watch them suffer and move
36:28
them from place to place and watch them suffer and take pictures and take photos
36:33
PR of this injured deer in their trunk loaded up in the trunk alive but injured
36:38
so you can able to you can't touch a deer normally it'll kick and fight this thing can't kick and fight still alive head up like that and then put it in the
36:45
trunk open the trunk up let's get pictures here open close the trunk move it on let's get pictures there what a sick bunch of sons of [ __ ] that's
36:51
there was three three kids and a mom freaking insane I I don't know where this type of behavior would have come
36:57
from I don't know whether later later later we'll hear more as this thing goes
37:03
through the legal system I hope it goes through the legal system it is for the mother for sure I think they've so this
37:09
uh at time of recording there's not a whole lot of information on that but I know the mother has been she will be
37:15
charged uh she should be incarcerated I think she will be but the kids are going to get off with nothing and to me like a
37:21
16 old right juvenile a 16-year-old should be charged at that point God
37:28
freaking lutely 16 like an 8-year-old knows that this stuff isn't okay yeah
37:33
like it's it's a typical of our it system yeah you got to read the article
37:39
because honestly it's it was so disturbing I didn't know whether I could get through it uh but I wanted to make
37:45
sure I read every single piece of it and it's absolutely disturbing what uh what disgusting and disturbing this forsome
37:52
of human beings uh did over what period of time Dean does it say at all so they
37:58
it said they went out they admitted to going out 50 times to 50 times so I mean
38:03
it wasn't yeah I don't know over how many years but 50 times they were
38:09
escorted by their mother or or took the car themselves sometimes or took the car themselves
38:16
after mom taught them how to do this after mom taught them how to do this obviously and went out and maimed and
38:22
killed and punished yeah and injured and
38:27
that heads they used guns too not just the car but apparently they were using under
38:32
caliber like 22s or a 410 I don't know whether we're using maybe a 20- gaug shotgun or something something that
38:38
would not give a clean kill to begin with so if we could just uh set the record straight this is not any this has
38:44
nothing to do with hunting skills these kids were not being taught how to hunt
38:49
because because this is not behavior that a
38:55
hunter I mean it's so far removed and and I want to make this perfectly clear
39:01
because mainstream media doesn't want to hear that Hunters people who hunt are
39:09
actually the a positive for the environment they're probably the true stewards of our wildlife and natural
39:17
places are people who hunt and harvest animals I don't want to get too
39:22
political about it but these this kind of behavior is not in any way shape or
39:28
form connected to Hunters the hunting industry the sport of
39:34
hunting the there was just this is criminal activity this is more akin to a
39:40
serial killer Behavior because Ser where it would come from CU they did
39:47
it with geese and raccoons and possums and turtles and everything too they they make everything suffer this is the making of serial killers sick bastard
39:55
and they should be charged as such absolutely and if you can't do it right now because of their age then then hold
40:03
them in a pen somewhere under the guise of the law and loopholes and they can't
40:09
we got to go to court hold them until they're of age maybe throw lion or a tiger in that pen too just in case you
40:15
know just for fun the hunted all of a sudden any you got to read the story on
40:21
fisher.com and it's an article uh where we've combined two thank God signicant
40:28
God they got pretty significant events uh taking place South of the Border uh one in Ohio one in Wisconsin uh read
40:35
them and and U you'll know why we're so pissed off that whole thing uh
40:41
fishfindermounts.com Peter yes our fan question our fan
40:46
question comes from from a big fan Nick Tron Nick is uh has been fan for a while
40:52
U do we know Nick yeah Nick is uh he's uh indulged with us a few times he's fished with the uh Jamie ptii so he's
41:01
done out fishing with Jamie so he's friends with them too okay yeah so next question uh was fishy mouse.com brings
41:08
you this uh segment yes it they are they can see them on YouTube right now if you want because I don't see them here
41:13
that's all I'm saying the people watching will see them oh we play a nice angel now fishfindermounts.com
41:21
bring you right there somewhere around there carry on yes Nick tron's
41:28
question by far my favorite episode was the one with uh with Reno one that we
41:34
just passed I guess with Reno I'm assuming right I have a question for you guys how has the planning process for
41:39
new episodes evolved over time what are the key differences in how episodes were planned in the 80s and 90s compared to
41:47
today a good question it's a great question it's a wonderful question really yeah it kind of stumps me a right
41:53
now I can tell you because uh in the 80s I was more involved in that part of it
42:00
so I can tell you that uh our our number
42:06
of people on location has changed okay and I'm
42:12
talking the fishing Canada show that makes a difference Journal it was always
42:18
a a crew of five plus with the fishing Canada show the crew was for the most
42:24
part through the 80s and the 90s was three y right Y at four at the top end yeah
42:31
that would be bringing a sponsor or something like that right you're bring somebody extra in special um so that's changed drastically
42:38
today we travel with a crew of five or six depending on shoots depending on
42:43
location um it it has doubled in size yeah that's and and
42:49
theis we have an and Pete we have to have a camera operator so we got vva we
42:55
have Dean we have Nick we have Steve so there's a pot of six people right there to to pull from and and if you get a big
43:01
shoot there you sometimes you want more guys out working or whatever you might need another cameraman maybe seven right
43:07
so so it it really has changed in that sense and of course the logistics of that is is is from as simple as
43:15
Transportation issues to accommodation issues to uh uh feeding more people on
43:22
the road uh it just goes on and on and on it just the logistics changed drastically when that crew size changed
43:29
M another another area that I can personally
43:36
attest to is that you know in the 80s 90s even the 2000s we were a little more tolerant as to the type of shoot that we
43:46
would tolerate because as we got older we found out that hey it's this is hard enough as it is let alone if you don't
43:54
get sleep if you can't have a shower if you don't have
43:59
porcelain it's a big one now isn't it now a porcelain you know out of the 40
44:05
years uh 35 of those years 34 of those years we were okay you put up with the
44:10
old out house if you had to but you know the last few yearsin has become a very
44:15
important part of my remember the first time we heard the word timers [ __ ] that was from Gary Beardsley up on slack Su
44:22
wait Pete you got to go for a Timber [ __ ] we just laughed our asses off oh my
44:27
God that was such a great great saying the other thing that I've noticed that
44:32
change maybe not between the 80s and 90s but certainly between the 80s and today
44:38
is that it's getting increasingly more difficult for us and this is not has nothing to do with the environment has
44:43
nothing to do with the venues has nothing to do with any it has everything to do with us becomes increasingly more
44:51
difficult for us to try and figure out you know a different angle yeah for the
44:57
episode jiging minnow and a walleye no we don't want to really do that well that's how we catch them here That's a
45:03
classic one for us eh classic one so yeah obviously equipment has changed has
45:09
evolved tremendously oh my God the amount then versus now yeah the only thing I will say about the equipment
45:15
though I was thinking about this the other day you know back in in the day when when it was you know a beta
45:21
cam or even before that 3/4 in it was one camera
45:27
but it had and I'm not joking here folks it came with about another 100 lb worth
45:35
of oh my God add-ons like batteries and and all that stuff Studio the whole studio so in terms of um of the
45:44
equipment we've changed drastically in equipment size the cameras have have you
45:51
know they went from this down to this uh better down to this and better than when
45:57
it was like that the media that we record too has gone from this to
46:05
nothing exactly and better quality of course in all of this
46:11
but we seem to need more of it so instead of one camera we travel with
46:18
four instead of one drone we have three instead you know what I mean so we find that there's more and more more of it
46:25
it's smaller it's more compact but there's more of it so yeah that has
46:31
impacted a lot of of what we do is done in remote areas where we have Flyin
46:37
involved or if we're driving to we we have to make sure that the vehicles that we're using can hold all of this
46:44
equipment and or boats and of course don't forget our fishing gear because I don't think we had as much back in the
46:50
day either I don't I don't think we did you know another thing you that point you made on the U on M car and
46:57
cameras for instance people need to realize that back in the day when Engine I were
47:03
talking about when we only went with that one big 3/4 inch and that one beta cam you have to get often you have to
47:10
get cutaway shots extra shots different shots you got Bol to boat you got all this stuff well you used to use one
47:15
camera to make it look like you're using two or three or four multi- camera shoot now we have the multi- cameras that
47:21
makes it easier for us too so we can do a multi camera shoot in the boat sort of thing like that right so that's just
47:26
evolution of the we used to have to do oh my God everything two or three times
47:31
exactly the same that was pretty tough when a cameraman said okay can you catch another fish for me right now cuz I'm
47:37
out beside you do then buddy cameraman can be such morons not present company
47:44
excluded oh he's not even looking I don't even think he's sleeping he's sleeping no he's not sleeping he's scratching his head there unless he's
47:50
got a new technique for sleeping there see um they can sometimes they're like
47:55
this they don't understand what we do cat they shut up and catch a
48:01
fish exactly that's what he say to us so anyways uh yeah there's been
48:07
there's been tremendous changes I all for the good I love it I love the fact that we now have evolved into this
48:15
whatever this is as opposed to where we used to be cuz that was tough that was
48:20
hard it stifled creativity the biggest difference is that back then
48:27
you could be the most creative individual in the world but the logistics of getting there to
48:34
that peak of creativity were next to Impossible unless you were Hollywood
48:40
today right all you need is the creativity and you can Cobble together
48:45
the most incredible product with with the technology that's available today is
48:50
just changed the game completely yeah it has right completely that it all right as we sit
48:57
at top of the uh the program uh very special guest today Dr prch Hammer is
49:02
joining us and do we have to do a sale ad first before that or yeah that's what Dean said to us to do I think brought to
49:09
you by sale he's awfully rude Eh this is good we can just keep this rolling people like this stuff do they
49:16
really yeah I think Have you shared this with they like this kind of stuff I think they might I don't know if they don't we you know all right this next
49:23
segment brought to you by sale now you knew that because of that right
49:28
I'm assuming no Dean just told us that about a minute and a half ago uh home for all good things outdoors especially
49:35
if you're into ice fishing this is the time of year they've got ice fishing rods and reels of course Shacks or tents
49:42
whatever they call them uh and a whole bunch more there's a lot more uh new
49:48
stuff coming in the store I was in on U on the weekend they're saying new stuff is coming as we speak so they're
49:53
restocking the shelves and getting the new stuff in for this year so it's good and and I wonder many people forget the
49:58
sale is probably the one of the top providers of outdoor wear oh my God in
50:04
the country maybe the best I don't know I mean the best that I've ever dealt with so uh anything outdoors if you're
50:09
going to go outside your door sale is where you want to be if you don't have one in your neighborhood which you probably don't uh we're fortunate enough
50:16
to have wood just down the road uh but you can go to sale.ca that
50:22
sale.ca and get all the good they still have a sale going on by the way I understand some items up to 60% off correct though
50:30
at sale now I can say what I wanted to say good job buddy good job Dr primac
50:36
Hammer joins us now the uh he is an independent contractor a a crep fish
50:42
biologist which is kind of bizarre I want to talk to you about that uh prac uh but you're conducting uh some
50:49
independent research on freshwater crayfish in Canada which is important because we've been hearing all kinds of things uh so we needed you to come on
50:56
board and and uh spread the word about crayfish welcome pram I got to start okay a guy with a name hammer and an
51:03
independent contractor okay there's some something going on here we got the right guy on this guest right
51:08
here welcome to the show Doctor thank you thank you for having me I'm actually
51:15
uh I should say uh I should give my alma matter um a shout out I'm actually associated with Trent University now I'm
51:23
a junct faculty as of first of January
51:28
so I'm not a mercenary completely anymore a
51:33
mercenary so that's great let's get right to the meat of the matter we've been hearing more and more and and
51:41
growing up in this industry I'd never heard anything about crayfish other than the fact that they were real good bait
51:47
good to use exactly so we were always trying to look for crayfish to use but the last 10
51:53
years or so I'm hearing the opposite and that is that don't introduce crayfish to
51:58
bodies of water don't look for them as bait in fact we have some major issues in some parts of the country uh with a
52:06
crayfish Invasion talk to us about that yeah so we I mean we have we have major
52:13
issues from coast to coast so from British Colombia to Nova Scotia Nova
52:19
Scotia actually is probably right now well I don't know if it's the worst place but they had zero crayfish right
52:26
right you know probably five years ago and now they have three so you know they're up
52:32
there in div diversity but it's all in introduced species so that's just an
52:38
example and Ontario has got eight eight Natives and um five introduced right now
52:46
wow so these introduced are they aquarium or how would these like how would Nova Scotia get uh three new
52:52
species of crayfish in and they're well it's it's difficult difficult to tell
52:57
right but we suspect like there are two major vectors one is definitely angling
53:03
right so people probably release uh uh things from live wells or buckets or
53:09
whatever uh because these things are cross B things so they a lot of these
53:14
things are from from the United States the problems we have in Ontario are all
53:20
with grayfish from United States that have come from the south wow um and and
53:25
then the other one is is also pet trade right so so this uh this grayfish that
53:31
everybody is really interested in the the Marvel crayfish probably came in um
53:38
in well we're we're pretty sure it came in in the pet trade because it was being sold you know um legally at the
53:46
beginning before it was banned in Ontario so and it's still still is being sold legally in in other provinces by
53:53
the way it is in pet stores or in uh bait shops or like could they be used for in stores
54:01
but crayfish B basically cannot be used as bait in in most provinces so the
54:09
regulations are provincial not federal there are essentially no federal uh
54:15
regulation the only Federal Regulation which I I always think it's kind of funny is is for Manitoba so Manitoba
54:22
federally mandates no Rusty crayfish so crayfish which we have uh and they're a
54:29
big problem in Ontario are baned federally and provincially in in in
54:35
Manitoba but nowhere else so so the the you know mostly the crayfish are not
54:41
allowed to be used I think BC allows uh certain use of live crayfish Ontario is
54:48
one of the few provinces that allows uh live crayfish use and only but only in
54:54
the waters that you capture them and so you have to go somewhere catch a crayfish in that lake or that River and
55:00
then use them as bait now let's let's let's talk about this you mentioned the marble crayfish a second ago let's let's
55:07
go back to that cuz that between that and the rusty obviously those are the two big culprits right now in this part
55:13
of the world let's talk a little bit about um we we're we're speculating how they got there it's kind of a little
55:20
late for that they're there um are there means in place now to to try and let me
55:28
ask first are we trying to eradicate them now that they're there is this the goal so so yes with the marbled crayfish
55:34
we are with the rusties uh no I mean basically there's no no management for
55:40
the rusties they're they're loose and they've taken over most of southern Ontario uh but the marbles are only in
55:48
one uh one uh set of Pawns that we know of so far in Burlington okay uh Ontario
55:57
right and and we are trying to eradicate them and I've been working with the ministry and with
56:03
ofah uh in tandem advising them since I'm like I'm the guy who identified them
56:11
because nobody knows crayfish very well or knew crayfish very well uh before and
56:17
uh so you know they they weren't identified now at a time and in a place
56:24
where we Embrace uh inclusiveness and you know and I don't mean this in a smartass
56:31
sort of way but sometimes you're going here no but sometimes we Overlook the obvious in in in a time when when we're
56:38
our tolerance levels are much lower than they have in previous times in our history what is the big deal with the
56:45
marble crayfish being loose and for that matter the rusty why is that a bad thing
56:50
it's it's alive it's here have at it no well the the marble the problem is that
56:57
it's uh parthenogenic which means it's asexual only females and these females
57:03
reproduce by themselves so one crayfish can beget you as many as 700 young right
57:09
somewhere between 200 and 700 depending on the size of the crayfish okay and then each one of those little crayfish
57:17
grows up pretty quickly uh within a year to be mature and have another 5 to 700
57:24
crayfish so you could be up to your armpit in cfish pretty quickly and this is what the problem is with the marbles
57:30
is when if you have them in a tank let's say at home uh well what are you going to do with them right as far as I'm
57:37
concerned there's three things you could do you could you could sell them right to someone else you can dump them or you
57:46
can use them as bait if you're a fisherman because they're nice and small you know you could have you the small ones they're not they don't have very
57:52
big claws actually be great for smalles yeah they would be they they would be
57:58
probably a good bait for bass and I shouldn't say this but but it's probably
58:04
too late to to be worried about saying this so the problem let's say the plus
58:11
to this would be it'd be a food source for the fish what's the negative to it
58:16
it has to be stronger than that right it must be stronger than that well the I mean we have our n we have native graish
58:22
as I said we have eight Natives and like for example example in the Keras I I
58:28
can't find any natives here it's very difficult to find I have a couple of secret spots in the headwaters of couple
58:35
of the local streams where there are still Natives and otherwise it's wall to--all rusties everywhere wow for ex
58:43
the autonoe river full of rusties Rice Lake full of rusties and and no no
58:48
natives like zero natives so what I like to say to people is because a lot of
58:53
people Bird right I said well if if you think it's okay to have just one set one
58:59
crayfish like the rusty or the marble uh you know how would you like to have just
59:05
gulls and pigeons right good point would that would that make would that make all
59:10
the people happy even the birders right non bers right would people be happy if they only saw pigeons and GS outside
59:18
their seag [ __ ] on everything exactly Dr Hammer where did
59:24
the uh where did the marble originate from so the marble has a has a pretty
59:32
interesting history right so um it's it's related to this to this crayfish in
59:38
the in in Northern Florida uh called the SLO grayfish uh and and this crayfish
59:46
um is basically identical except that it has only two sets of chromosomes and
59:52
then the marbl crayfish it's three sets of chromosomes so there was a mut somewhere uh that produced this thing
59:59
and they popped up in in Germany initially in the in the pet trade right
1:00:04
they turned up uh apparently I think it was in the 90s but they they didn't get
1:00:11
loose until early 2000s they were loose in Germany meaning they're in the wild
1:00:16
and for some crazy reason in Madagascar which they're overrunning right now
1:00:22
right so so they produce very quickly and comp you know they can eat fish eggs
1:00:27
for example so you said is it's good for fish but not if you have hundreds of cfish eating fish eggs right now is this
1:00:35
a man so you're saying this is a man-made animal this is not this is a test tube product it it could be so so
1:00:43
one of the theories which I really like is is is that when they were transported
1:00:48
because they were initially bought by a by a German uh it was a scientist actually a water scientist who bought
1:00:55
them from these de ERS they were kind of shady uh insect and fish dealers and
1:01:00
they sold them to him and they they think that they were smuggled in in the
1:01:05
hold of a plane and and when you when you uh when you cool down a an animal uh
1:01:13
geneticist tell me I'm not a Genesis but the Genesis tell me that you can actually induce mutations by extreme
1:01:20
cold so one of the theories is that when they were in the plane in the hold where it's quite cold they got shocked and
1:01:27
they mutated but it's not as simple as that because since then one of the German scientists who studying them who
1:01:35
who first described them actually uh went back to Florida to that wild population of of that you know parent
1:01:42
species and he found triploids meaning uh you know asexual uh crayfish in that
1:01:49
population females that had three sets of genes but the the trick is that these females are not repr producing in that
1:01:56
population so they pop up but they don't seem to reproduce they don't seem to take over that population wow but they
1:02:04
they are present in the wild so maybe the Germans are not altogether uh to blame for this right you know how about
1:02:12
the rusty where did the rusty come from the rusty definitely came from uh from
1:02:17
Ohio from American fishermen we suspect that it came into uh into Rice Lake
1:02:24
first because that's where it was first found in the kartas and that's why the kartas are so bad but at the beginning
1:02:31
it was not illegal to sell crayfish is bait so you can imagine uh the all of a
1:02:36
sudden the resty spread all over the province with fishermen right because they were buying it and then releasing
1:02:42
it see that that's a perfect example of why why the bait laws are in place now
1:02:48
of you know dumping your Bait Bucket on the shore because this is a perfect example if you can't understand it in
1:02:53
Bait fish you can understand it in crayfish who Among Us has not done that at one point in life of course you did I
1:03:00
don't feel sorry for little Sammy I got to let him go in the down the ice hole there and he's going to be free right
1:03:05
but exactly it's not even malicious in many cases right I mean people don't
1:03:11
know that you're actually not by law not allowed to move grayfish dead or alive
1:03:16
that's right that's right so what but what kid knows that right yeah yeah absolutely put them in a jar and take
1:03:23
them home and whatever right so let them go on a stream my house Dr Ham what exactly is a crayfish so a crayfish is a
1:03:31
crustation so it's related to most closely to lobsters and and and shrimp
1:03:37
but it lives in fresh water okay one of the neat things about crayfish that make a different from a lobster is they don't
1:03:44
have any plantonic uh larby so when they're born they hang on to the mother
1:03:49
I don't know if you've seen this but sometimes you catch a crayfish and you'll have actually babies underneath
1:03:55
the tail just eggs oh wow wow the reason I asked that is because it seems to me
1:04:03
that the perfect solution to to for the rusties anyways because obviously the marbles have not taken hold yet the
1:04:10
perfect solution is to start you know promoting them as great table Fair because I got a very good friend South
1:04:16
of the Border and I mean this guy he'd probably SLE single-handedly be able to
1:04:22
clean out all of Lake of the Woods rusties in one season e a lot ofish you
1:04:27
you would think so but unfortunately this is not the case I actually uh uh in
1:04:33
the early 90s when I came back from Australia where I did my PhD uh I I uh
1:04:40
did a study where I tried to uh uh reduce the population in the Indian River which is uh close into Rice Lake
1:04:48
actually uh and and I took out a a trapping license so I was the only uh
1:04:55
Bonafide trapper in in Ontario licensed Trapper I should say and and for a
1:05:01
couple of Summers I I hit this population really hard and took out all the big edible sized crayfish and
1:05:08
actually sold them to a Cajun restaurant in Peterboro which doesn't exist anymore but they were for a while they were
1:05:15
selling instead of cads they were selling rusties and and this study showed that it made absolutely no
1:05:22
difference because there's so many small crayfish they just keep reproducing and they just
1:05:29
start reproducing at a smaller size if you take out the big ones and rust these reproduce at a really small size which
1:05:36
gives them an advantage over some of our natives that's one of the problems and so it doesn't work and in England they
1:05:43
have the same problem they have a North American crayfish introduced and they've actually opened up the season and they
1:05:50
you know they have food tracks with crayfish and they encourage people to to to eat them but it it has not stopped
1:05:57
The Invasion or it has not really reduced the the the density fish are just resilient I wonder if there's a
1:06:05
type of crayfish that you that eats like this Rusty is it better than the one in Louisiana versus is there a a type or
1:06:12
they all taste the same if they got a big tail they're good any idea yeah if I mean it's they all basically taste the
1:06:18
same uh the the trick is where do they come from so I eat crayfish quite a bit
1:06:24
I love them so uh and and uh but the Louisiana ones can be
1:06:30
sometimes muddy because they come from bayos right whereas our crayfish come from clean streams or you know if
1:06:38
depends where you're getting them but and and they actually taste better but they're not as big that's the thing we
1:06:44
don't have well I shouldn't say that we've just uh discovered uh that we do
1:06:50
have big crayfish from the south and they they may be heading for georan Bay as Speak oh my God it's allfish crayfish
1:07:00
crayfish nobody knew about it why that's why why was why is this happening now
1:07:06
like where was this 20 30 40 50 years ago uh well the resties have been here
1:07:13
since the late 60s right so it did happen did not know that yeah yeah and
1:07:19
they spread you know spread slowly naturally and they also as I said spread
1:07:25
with the with the release from fishermen because they went they were around Rice Lake and then all of a sudden they
1:07:31
showed up in Lake of the Woods right so they didn't March there yeah we had a
1:07:36
long march we had an interesting experience on Lake of the Woods recently
1:07:41
um with rusties first of all it was bizarre we we we deployed our cameras
1:07:47
down to the bottom and the floor of the lake was literally moving with crayfish
1:07:54
like thousands of crayfish like like a like an army like a Dawn of the Dead down there exactly it was so weird but
1:08:01
what was really bizarre is that they were attacking our baits like they were so aggressive we caught them on our rigs
1:08:08
yeah yeah listen when I was doing that study in the Indian River one of the other rivers that I that I had the
1:08:14
license for was this this river called the ooze and and it had such high
1:08:20
densities that I measured up to 100 per square meter oh my God and as I walked
1:08:26
up the stream I was crushing them underfoot right cuz there are so many of them there the the they were behind me
1:08:34
and all the other ones were eating the dead ones no they're eating themselves
1:08:39
now we were we were told we were told that uh when they invade a new body of
1:08:45
water uh or a new part of a body of water that they already exist in that
1:08:52
they first of all they're they're feeding on Native CP fish that seems to be one of their their preferred food
1:08:58
sources but in order to access those native fish uh crayfish they mow down
1:09:06
the weeds is well they like yeah but they eat they eat vegetation
1:09:12
they they omnivore so they'll you know they've shown for example in Minnesota
1:09:18
and Wisconsin they've shown that the resties have cleaned out Lakes of all the vegetation so it's true wow and so
1:09:25
so are the marbles so that's an issue right you if you take out all the mccrites the you know the plants that
1:09:31
live underwater like that's going to affect the ecosystem that's going to affect your insects right so they eat
1:09:38
aquatic insects they eat aquatic plants they they will eat other
1:09:43
crayfish uh but but you know they mostly will eat like smaller crayfish and but
1:09:51
you know they they're omnivores as I like to say they eat everything and everything eats them wow kidding imagine
1:09:58
if you get a a combination of crayfish and an invasive carp like grass carp or
1:10:03
something get them from the top and the bottom like it' be I'm laughing but it's wow I mean yeah scary what uh in the
1:10:10
case of what Pete's talking about the invasive uh you know carp family that
1:10:15
that that is upon us now that eats vegetation as well uh there we're we're
1:10:20
trying to be a little more Vigilant and try and recognize the fish before takes
1:10:25
hold but obviously in this case in the rusty case especially not so much the marble uh they're here there's nothing
1:10:33
you know they got through the gate and sorry and and their impact is as strong I bet you as grass carp because we saw
1:10:39
it in Lake of the Woods and now maybe it's a little guy that's big but if you got four million of them on one weed bed
1:10:45
it's gone right what uh what can we do is there anything we can do or do we run
1:10:50
for the hills and and and like find a new place to live like I don't know
1:10:56
uh it's it's it's very difficult right so you know my I'm worried about the marbles and and by the way they're we
1:11:04
the the ministry and um the fisheries and oceans did a and ofah did a survey
1:11:11
of Edna do you guys know what Edna is it's environmental DNA where they sample
1:11:17
the water and it tells you what is in it by looking at the DNA and we have we
1:11:24
have uh unfortunately some indication and I don't want to you know jump jump
1:11:29
the gun or or uh you know talk about their data too much but there's an indication that the marbles are in other
1:11:36
parts in Ontario as well ouch based on this Edna so they're not under control
1:11:42
and neither are these uh these White River crawfish which which we found uh
1:11:48
initially in Six Mile Lake do you know where that is Provincial Park yeah for sure yeah and uh they look like they're
1:11:55
spread into Severn sound and you know we have them basically uh really close to
1:12:02
George in Georgi and Bay now uh and that and the only way they should be able to
1:12:07
get there is through Anglers is that what you're thinking that's what I'm thinking because Six Mile Lake has
1:12:13
competitions right that are international and how else would they get there yeah and they're also they're
1:12:20
also on peely Island and nowhere and apparently there's a lot of Ang going on
1:12:25
there's anglish coming from the south obviously yeah you know and they've been
1:12:31
at on pey island for apparently since 2015 but no nobody knew because they're
1:12:36
just grayfish and nobody knows grayfish right right the one of the bad things is
1:12:42
that you know there's basically no research done on crayfish very little research done on crayfish in Canada in
1:12:49
the states there's a lot more there's a lot of a lot of my colleagues are Americans but in Canada when I go to the
1:12:55
world crayfish Congress which is every two years uh I present my research and
1:13:01
I'm always the only canadi in that so we really don't have any idea of what the
1:13:08
impact is like you said what is the impact we don't know we don't know how many fish eggs they eat or you know
1:13:15
what's the impact on vegetation there are no ecological studies that that I
1:13:21
know of in in in Ontario and in Canada for that matter so you know now that I'm
1:13:28
retired like people didn't care about grayfish for since when when I was young I you
1:13:35
needed them to yeah and now all of a sudden I'm I'm like everybody wants a
1:13:41
piece of me right everybody wants advice because because a I can identify them
1:13:48
positively right they can be pretty sure that that it's what what it is when it
1:13:54
when it is uh we're dealing with introduced species but we need more research and we need more education so
1:14:00
we need to educate people it's going to be really difficult to stop the spread of these three big Invaders we have in
1:14:07
Ontario they're here to stay yeah here to I think they're here to stay and if the the marbles I mean we only have them
1:14:14
so far in that one location so we have to try to contain them or eradicate them
1:14:19
there for sure but if if next summer we find them in 10 other locations then you
1:14:25
have to think about is it worth spending a lot of money and time trying to eradicate them in Burlington if you have
1:14:32
them from wind or to WIS to Ottawa right at some point you got to cut your losses and say there's nothing we can do right
1:14:39
is there is there a chance that birds could transport these things because we
1:14:44
hear that with fish species when the in in the US especially in these U strip pits and that they get introduced by
1:14:50
herons and gulls and whatever they're on their maybe they're on their feet the fish eggs on their feet and they're
1:14:57
somehow fertilized whatever can that happen with with crayfish not not likely and there's not not any evidence that I
1:15:04
I can think of I mean I'm not you know I don't see see all the literature but I've never seen any evidence of that and
1:15:12
I mean when birds eat crayfish they usually kill them right so but I have seen I have seen a crayfish dropped uh
1:15:21
by by a heron or by a seagull one adult so that's that but but one is not a
1:15:27
problem for most gra fish except for the marbles right right because one one gra
1:15:32
starts starts a new population so but but all the other cfish one is not going
1:15:39
to harm it right one male would do nothing basically so gotcha if CRP fish
1:15:45
these two CRP fish that we're talking about are so dreadful for the
1:15:51
environment how about our seven or eight native crayfish how how are they being
1:15:56
kept in check it sounds like the crayfish is just a a bad Critter to have in our waterways how about the
1:16:02
other it's a very important Critter right it's a keystone species what
1:16:07
biologists like to say because as I said it eats everything and everything eats it but the densities of our grayfish are
1:16:15
way way lower than these guys like these guys is just out of control when they boom right okay so it's a numbers thing
1:16:24
it's not that it's kind of like zebra muscles you know right right right right wow so just just
1:16:30
back to your other questions what what can we do I think what we can do is educate and this is why I'm also
1:16:36
speaking to you I've been on a mission since since I retired uh during Co and
1:16:44
I've been just working on crayfish 247 and I'm just trying to educate so
1:16:50
I've tried I've given seminars to biologists from coast to coast and I've been on TV I've been on the radio and
1:16:57
I'm just trying to Spread spread the news so that people know not to move greatfish and and in terms of management
1:17:05
I think it's important to protect the places that don't have them you
1:17:11
know and in particular you're you're saying to Anglers that may be uh
1:17:18
watching or hearing this podcast you're you're telling them not to transport
1:17:23
crayfish from one body water to the other plain and simple that's just pretty simple you guys are Anglers and
1:17:29
I'm just I mean I I fish too but I'm just skeptical that people when they go
1:17:35
bass fishing they actually spend an hour looking for crayfish before they start fishing well certainly if this was 20
1:17:42
years ago 30 years ago 40 years ago I would say absolutely for sure but I I
1:17:48
don't think anymore I don't think I've not heard of it going on for a while
1:17:54
lesser if if you're on a trip and you have a couple of days you might go in the
1:17:59
evening and set a trap for sure that's I have a question for if you're there for
1:18:04
a day yes right you bring you bring them in yeah you probably bring them in right
1:18:10
yeah so I question for I know you're not an M&R conservation officer or anything like that but you stated the somewhat of
1:18:16
the rules of Ontario that you have to catch them in that same body of water that you fish them in how do you prove
1:18:22
how do you prove that you caught them in that body of water how do the how what's the whole process here that the M&R do you have any idea
1:18:28
CU you're pretty close to crayfish so maybe you have an idea well again I've been working with the enforcement quite
1:18:34
a bit identifying crayfish for them um but it's yeah you're absolutely right
1:18:41
it's it's very difficult difficult to uh prove but if you have but if you have
1:18:47
for example these White River crayfish you know they're they're huge they're red they look they look completely
1:18:54
different from ours so the inspectors can tell them right so they can they can you know they can uh they can police
1:19:02
that but they can't really rusties are difficult to police because in the court they're everywhere right so in some ways
1:19:08
it doesn't really matter anymore you know yeah there are but there are spots
1:19:15
where there are still Natives and if you introduce the rties there then you you know spoiling the last right refu
1:19:22
refuges right they have no chance do they the natives have no chance when all no they've been essentially eliminated
1:19:29
like I see it here in the koras I did my Master's thesis in
1:19:34
1981 to 83 at Trent University and I I caught natives in the autonomy right
1:19:42
right below the biology building I would just put on my waiters and go down to the river and there were you know there
1:19:48
were two three different species of natives now you go there it's just rusties now and and I've been looking
1:19:55
since I came back in the 9s and and they're gone well they they must be by
1:20:01
now I'm talking to rusties they must now be well entrenched within um the food
1:20:07
chain in in the waterways that they're in right they got to become now they they've got to be an important source of
1:20:14
of energy and protein for local fish yeah yeah they must be I mean we again
1:20:19
as I said because we haven't done many studies we don't really know what they you know ecological niche is right what
1:20:27
are they doing are they you know are they impacting the fish are they or or
1:20:33
you know positively negatively we we don't know right because we haven't we
1:20:38
haven't done any studies I've basically been just chasing crayfish around the
1:20:44
province trying to figure out where they are the Mad crayfish doctor and my
1:20:50
specialty is actually life history so it's how they grow how quickly they mature and so on so I've done that for
1:20:57
the rusties um already twice uh but but
1:21:02
you know so that's my specialty it's not even ecology like interactions between
1:21:08
fish and crayfish that's not my thing how did you how did you become interested in crayfish prac kind of
1:21:14
curious it's not something that a young man you know wants to get into biology and stuff say hey I'm going to hang out
1:21:20
with crayfish how do you get involved with crayfish well I mean I think everybody loves grayfish once they see
1:21:26
them because they're so interesting right they have claws and an Tenny and all those legs and stuff kids love them
1:21:33
right yeah true for sure anyway but I I did my uh my first project When I Was An
1:21:40
undergraduate in Montreal actually because I I came from Montreal um I did
1:21:46
my first uh project my honors project on crayfish and then I never look back I
1:21:52
got actually got a scholarship to come to train University to study crayfish and then I got an international
1:21:58
Commonwealth scholarship to go to Tasmania to study the world's biggest grayfish which are they're like 10
1:22:06
pounds what oh that's come on 10 pounds this is the lobster big lobster we're
1:22:12
talking like this yeah we're talking almost a meter long yeah holy smokes
1:22:18
tell us about that that's exciting what is it is it a native to that area yeah yeah it's a native great fish it's in
1:22:25
the on only found on the island of Tasmania which is like the kind of the
1:22:30
Newland of Australia south south of Australia and there they're only in the
1:22:36
rivers that flow in North into the bass straight and I was so lucky because in
1:22:44
in the 80s there was nothing known about these things like nobody had studied them they were named and then there was
1:22:50
a distribution map so you knew where they were and and and you knew how to
1:22:55
identify them but there was no life history on them at all like people didn't know how long they lived and and
1:23:02
what they ate or anything so I did my PhD thesis uh among other things on
1:23:08
these giant things like I I did a comparative study of three grayfish in
1:23:13
Australia but but the so it was so much fun because it was I was the first person to do it and I'm still you know
1:23:21
pretty famous in Australia because of that now that's going to be dangerous animal at that point like a 10 lb
1:23:27
crayfish like that's nasty those claws never mind that imagine the fish that eat that
1:23:34
sucker we got to go down there yeah you get your fingers yeah we got to go down there in Tasmania Ang drop drop 10
1:23:40
Pounders down to catch 200 Pounders smoke their claw their claws are bigger
1:23:46
uh as bigger than your hands and they could put their claws around your wrist
1:23:51
my God they could crush your wrist cuz they they're very powerful oh my God
1:23:57
yeah cuz little we guys are are powerful enough and they pinch you it hurts you know so there's a actually an episode on
1:24:03
on River Monsters you know that show yeah yeah he went to Tasmania and
1:24:09
and and CAU a big crayfish with a friend of mine who's working on them now wow an
1:24:16
Australian guy that's crazy going back to going back I got got into it this
1:24:22
Doom and Gloom here so we got the spread of crayfish seems to me like
1:24:27
the the worst culprit is is Anglers so why maybe you'd know why would the DFO
1:24:34
and all the provincial Ministries just say no crayfish across the board no it is not allowed to be used I mean you're
1:24:41
saying a lot of provinces don't but Ontario does and who knows what why would they just say why would they say blanket that's it it is not going to be
1:24:48
used for 10 years in experiment or whatever well well some some provinces do say that like they're
1:24:54
you can't use them at all right so but it's provincially driven right and so
1:25:00
yes we've been for example we we said to to the feds we said like why haven't you
1:25:06
banned the the you know the marbled grayfish across the board in all of all
1:25:12
of uh you know Canada yeah because they're legal in Quebec you can go and buy them in Quebec and bring them across
1:25:18
the border once you're in Ontario you're breaking the law right right because you're not allowed to to be in
1:25:25
possession of them at any time right so technically with these introduced
1:25:31
species uh that are banned which which include the marbled crayfish and the
1:25:37
White River crayfish which I told you the big ones right the big red ones yeah that are now in in Georg and Bay they
1:25:44
you're not you're really not supposed to be handling those even for bait technically I would say because you're
1:25:50
not allowed to be in possession of them or moving them or anything rties however
1:25:55
are a different story because they're not prohibited and there but that one sounds
1:26:01
like it's too late to do anything with that one anyway yeah and I think that's what it is but I think I I I just think
1:26:08
it's because a you know it's really difficult to make new laws right so the F feds are saying well it's very
1:26:15
difficult to to add a species you know to to the band list Federal it's it has
1:26:20
to pass through all these hoops right before it can be done bureaucracy it's all about bureaucracy
1:26:26
make a new tax pretty easy can't they oh tax tax fuel [ __ ] oor you'd have to
1:26:33
you you'd have to you'd have to invoke some sort of emergency measure it's possible if if you if it's deemed an
1:26:40
emergency then it can be pushed through faster apparently I again this is not my
1:26:45
thing right but but you are according to everything I've heard
1:26:51
and read you are the guy that can make that happen because you're the expert in
1:26:57
this in this field you've got to be able I made it happen you you've got to be able to get
1:27:04
the ear of either the scientific community in government or certainly
1:27:11
you've mentioned the ofah a few times now on this episode um you got to be
1:27:17
able to get their ear and say guys it's time we we we brighten up here we know that this is a problem and we o know
1:27:24
that there's a 99.9% chance that the spread is due to Anglers you guys
1:27:30
according to you you are the voice of the Anglers uh the Federation of Anglers
1:27:36
and Hunters surely to God there's enough power between all of you to go to
1:27:42
whoever in Ottawa and say okay Monday morning this is what's going on I mean it's ridiculous yeah to be fair I mean
1:27:50
the ofah is doing you know a lot
1:27:55
right but but they're not it's not easy to change the laws but they are doing most of the research and that's why I
1:28:02
work with them so you know you know they they are doing their thing we we made
1:28:07
this guide just sec I don't I don't I'll just show it to you on the screen we
1:28:13
made this Ontario guide last uh last winter and it's very popular it's being
1:28:19
used by the cosos and by by general public we printed 5,000 copies and
1:28:24
they're almost all gone but you can download it for free on
1:28:30
online at ofh they have a invasive species uh section and and there's a
1:28:36
link there if you go so you can get it you could put it on your computer uh but yeah so you know the
1:28:44
things are getting done I mean things are finally moving I mean I've been pushing uh for as I said since I retired
1:28:51
in 2020 I've been on crayfish fulltime because I was just a teacher before that because nobody cared about
1:28:58
crayfish I couldn't get a job studying crayfish uh with the ministry or or with
1:29:03
a university for that matter wow I I lectured at Trent for a while and then I gave it up and went to teach uh
1:29:11
environmental science um at a private school and that's what I did for 20
1:29:16
years and I studied cish uh during my summer vacations I would put out one paper each each year and I have the most
1:29:24
papers on crayfish in Canada right now I believe and I and I was a high school
1:29:29
teacher right so when I retired I started fulltime on crayfish and and since then a lot of good stuff has
1:29:36
happened you know I've educated a lot of people I wrote a big report for the ministry and as a result of that report
1:29:43
they banned uh the marbled crayfish and this White River crayfish they actually banned all of the crayfish in that genus
1:29:51
so they're now totally illegal and in Ontario and they also banned another
1:29:56
crayfish from the West Coast which is a big problem in Europe and so if it if it
1:30:02
does get over to Ontario it could also become a big problem even though it's a Canadian native damn and it and it just
1:30:10
found it in Minnesota so someone brought it over from West Coast to Minnesota
1:30:15
yeah oh my God you got to ban crayfish from Fishman that's obviously North American ban anyways I
1:30:23
don't know I me I I bass fish but I you know I find that the worms work almost
1:30:29
as good as the crayfish exactly well okay I do have to easier to get don't glorify the
1:30:36
crayfish no I'm not glorifying it but but we got to talk them down tube jigging was given birth because of
1:30:43
crayfish exactly there you go you don't need crayfish in fact I got to ask you a question before we let you go we we Pete
1:30:50
and I both at the same time in our careers discovered crayfish turn into
1:30:56
these bright vivid colors at certain times I guess when they're molting or reproducing whatever the case is but
1:31:03
their claws turn into these vibrant colors like chartreuse and and purple and blues and stuff and we didn't know
1:31:11
that up until then we but the reason we found out we were using tubes that had
1:31:16
really weird colors on their tips on the tentacles of the tubes and uh and all of
1:31:23
a sudden we found don't why because crayfish in in particular areas at certain times of year they go into this
1:31:30
bright color mode tell us they come in all sorts of colors but but they you're
1:31:35
right when they mol because they shed their old skin when they're newly molted they're they're much brighter in color
1:31:42
how often do they mold uh it depends depends uh on how old
1:31:47
they are so the little guys will mold like you know they can mold up to 10 times a summer but
1:31:54
the the females once they're adults only mold once a summer and the males twice a
1:31:59
summer so the adult grayfish the bigger ones so they don't mol that often the males twice the females only once after
1:32:07
they've let go of their Broods they'll mol how long how long does that
1:32:12
last the mold yeah um well I mean they
1:32:18
the the molting process will can take up up to several hours right so they pull
1:32:24
out of their skin and then they're soft shell so the soft shell crayfish apparently are really good for bait
1:32:30
right what I was going to say we've been in a few occasions where where locals
1:32:36
and the guides especially would tell us that the perfect timing because this the
1:32:41
the the the crayfish are all starting to to shed their skin and and and therefore
1:32:47
Predator fish are right into that mode and like there seems to be a magic time
1:32:52
in the life cycle of a crayfish where it becomes really good table fair for for
1:32:58
most game Fish yeah there's a there's a snake that's actually endangered the queen snake in Ontario that only eats
1:33:05
grayfish and mostly eats soft shell graish no kidding wow yeah yeah yeah
1:33:11
I've I've worked on that too because everybody who does anything with crayfish calls me up now no kidding that
1:33:20
that molting let's say the one a year molting is it seasonal is it like fall winter whatever or is it anytime s can
1:33:27
no no no it's seasonal it's it's it's summer so the males will uh they'll mate
1:33:34
early I mean it depends on the species but most of them like rusties for example they'll mate early April they
1:33:41
they are the first ones off the mark you know that's how they compete everybody so they're like in April they they will
1:33:48
have made it and then the the the males will then Mt when they're finished M
1:33:54
mating so around May and then then they'll mol back so they they will mol
1:34:00
out of the reproductive condition into into a non-reproductive condition and then mold back again in Midsummer to
1:34:07
reproductive so they're ready for the next reproductive season in in the next
1:34:12
uh spring just trying to time my my jig fishing oh I know no but it's true the
1:34:17
more you know about that exactly yeah yeah if you know the life history of the grayfish it's it's it's very it's
1:34:24
important you know for management but also for fishing right absolutely and
1:34:30
during during the molting period which could take you said hours not
1:34:36
days no hours yeah but I mean they start preparing for days they'll stop eating
1:34:41
and they'll start loosening up their cares like they'll start pulling at the old cares because they mold everything
1:34:48
off it's crazy like people you know that that have gray fishes which they're not
1:34:54
supposed to really uh say oh my CR I had one crayfish now I have two or they go
1:35:00
my crayfish died and I go are you sure it didn't mol right because the skin is complete like it looks like a crayfish
1:35:07
wow fascinating Claws and all like everything like it's all attached those little tiny legs even even the the the
1:35:14
the end of the intestine wow it's crazy and the eyeballs like the covering of
1:35:19
the eyeballs so no wonder you got now I understand why you got into this I mean greatfish are fascinating creit they
1:35:26
fascinating and a lot of people study them around the world as I said I go to the World Conference every two years uh
1:35:34
I was just in Croatia in this summer and uh you know there are people from all
1:35:39
over the world we had people from 50 countries I think you know and so I have colleagues all over the planet that I'm
1:35:46
in touch with hopefully somebody listening to this some youngster listening to this will be inspired and
1:35:53
mo motivated by you today to maybe look at as a profession because it sounds like we need more people in Canada
1:35:59
looking into this working with wonderful CR yeah I'm hoping that you know there'll be a little bit more research
1:36:06
as as because of the exposure and as I said I'm I'm now associated with Trent
1:36:12
University and uh I'm hoping to co-supervise students I'm not going to be teaching anymore but but I will help
1:36:19
with research and I'm hoping to introduce we already have one project uh with one of the professors that oh
1:36:25
fantastic that's on crayfish so I would encourage everybody to get a guide H so
1:36:31
that they know know what crayfish it is that they're dealing with and and just
1:36:37
try not to move them right yeah for sure that's the key the key it sounds like is is for us as angl to just get them out
1:36:45
of your mind get them out of your head in terms of using as bait and we do that the easiest if you if you feel bad about
1:36:52
killing them you know just freeze them like you know you don't have to step on them which is
1:36:59
nasty but you can put them in your in your freezer and they just die they basically go to sleep they slow down and
1:37:06
then they you know they slowly go to sleep and they freeze and if you leave them overnight then you could just throw
1:37:13
them wherever you like by then it doesn't matter I'd get a divorce my wife would open the freezer up and see about 13 crayfish in there what the hell's
1:37:19
going on here be hey I've got crayfish in my freezer right
1:37:25
now for eating nice Dr Hammer I really appreciate you joining us before you go
1:37:31
tell folks how they can find more uh uh on you about you and about your research and studies that you're
1:37:37
conducting okay so uh I don't know if I have the website as I said if you go to
1:37:43
ofah um their invasive species unit has has a link to the to to the Ontario
1:37:50
crayfish guide so I encourage you to to uh get a copy on you know a digital
1:37:57
copy uh we will try to reprint uh another one another set another printing
1:38:04
so we'll have more hard copies uh hopefully and so you'd be able to get that from ofah as well because they they
1:38:12
produced it uh together with the fisheries and oceans I want to make sure I give them uh head because they
1:38:18
financed it so the federal federal body financed this guide so we have we have
1:38:24
to give them credit for that and um I you know you can I I I'm on Twitter uh
1:38:31
Dr crayfish oh Dr crayfish imagine that it so if if you have questions you can
1:38:37
always uh uh DM me on Twitter or or or or send me a message on Twitter so yeah
1:38:45
as I said Dr crayfish perfect awesome I thank you my friend uh all the best to
1:38:51
you and uh hopefully our our paths will cross out in the field somewhere and we can uh yeah no thank you for having me
1:38:58
um uh you know it's great the more information we can get out to the public uh I'm sure the the more good we could
1:39:07
we could do I encourage people to report crayfish also if they if they see some strange
1:39:14
crayfish that they're not sure what it is they should try to report it either to the invasive species hotline on ofah
1:39:21
or ey naturalist is also good I check that all the time for for new uh things
1:39:27
turning up that's how we found these Marvel crayfish was on I naturalist okay
1:39:32
because I I saw a photo and I said this is a marveled crayfish and then then sure it was there you go all right my
1:39:40
friend all the best to you thank you for joining us we really appreciate it that was awesome no worries nice to meet you
1:39:46
and nice to talk to you you too uh who to th it huh that's very interesting stuff too you know what I mean going and
1:39:52
it's on going and ongoing all the time so that day that you and I uh you remember when that was that we
1:39:59
discovered that crayfish do in fact go sh Truse and lime and purple and orange
1:40:08
and all that stuff well I'm I'm assuming is that Lake simple absolutely deal with renal absolutely absolutely I had no
1:40:16
idea I can never figure out why these tubes were always so colorful on the tips right and in fact we hard ever use
1:40:22
them them you could dip them and make them even more I used to avoid them I have a I be a pumpkin full pumpkin yeah
1:40:29
I want that it would be a full smoke color yeah that's what I what the heck is all that chart trusy stuff coming out
1:40:35
of like that yeah then Reno pulled it off one day and we actually did a direct
1:40:40
comparison I was running smoke Mikey bur and I are running smoke colored patterns
1:40:45
which is a very nice beautiful little crayfish eater you know like and we went six lb test and 8B test line light light
1:40:52
light and REO was kicking our asses with this brown and chartreuse and he had 17lb Tes line it didn't in no finesse he
1:40:59
had bait casting gear we were spinning F said Mikey and uh we got our asses
1:41:05
handed to us we just said wow well to the point now we said Reno you might might want to throw some of them tubos
1:41:10
over in our boat here buddy police and it worked man so and that's when we cuz afterwards we we we said what the hell
1:41:17
is going on why would that work cuz it was so fascinating ABS at the time it
1:41:23
was so fascinating that it was just this one particular color on the on the tips
1:41:30
of this tube that made him he was able to outfish the three of us 10 to one un
1:41:38
unbelievable 10 to one and not only numbers put on a clinic out there put on a clinic right there oh God not only a
1:41:45
lot of fish but it seems that he was attracting bigger fish I remember him he
1:41:50
said the H go oh there's another one boys and we' all say [ __ ] what is he do
1:41:56
what is it going on there you know what we should have what really we should have clued in and like I didn't even
1:42:01
think of this before a long time ago but even pre that we always throw black blue in our jigs you know what I mean but you
1:42:08
why why why not just a straight black you know what I mean cuz it'll work too but that black blue always still to this
1:42:14
day maybe better than any other color combination going flipping jig because crayfish during that one period of their
1:42:23
cycle well in this case as we found out today that cycle could act actually that
1:42:28
that could happen 10 times in a season yeah for young ones yeah but during that time in their life when they shed they
1:42:36
turn the claws turn extremely colorful I
1:42:41
I don't even I should have asked him why that would be what would be the reason yeah that a crate you would think nature
1:42:47
would have done the opposite because when it's molting you want to hide you don't want you but but yet makes maybe
1:42:54
no it doesn't even make sense got to ask that cuz I I'd love to know why but
1:42:59
that's when their claws turn bright orange bright chartreuse blue purple orange a classic
1:43:04
example orange claws in your Live Well oh my God how many have you seen like that right just spitting up claws Galore
1:43:12
that's when we learned anyway fascinating gentlemen it'd be great to run uh run into him out in the field
1:43:18
he'd be great on a fishing Canada episode great to have him in the boat yeah throwing Jigs and tubes and all that stuff and he has some cameras down
1:43:25
there looking for I'm surprised at how many are here in the the close to us in the qu that's that's insane we found out
1:43:32
today that the rusties started in in Rice Lake we thought they started up we thought they started up north the first
1:43:38
we heard of them was that last year yeah right so anyways that are it hopefully you enjoyed it as much as we did today I
1:43:46
want to thank all of the uh characters uh VBA over there Nick over here and
1:43:51
Dean over there uh he's Peter bman I'm Ang B thanks for joining us catch you next [Music]
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the invasive species Center protecting Canada's land and water from invasive species Freedom Cruise Canada rent the
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