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The Evolution of Fly Fishing | Outdoor Journal Radio ep. 119
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Dec 2, 2024
This week on Outdoor Journal Radio, Ang and Pete are joined by Dave Stewart, host of one of America's largest fly fishing podcasts - Wet Fly Swing! First, however, a bit of housekeeping was in order. Topics discussed included: getting flagged; Ang's battle with the IRS; our new look; being occasionally hilarious; cooking with wild herbs; whether CWD can pass to humans; and inflation's impact on fishing. With those matters out of the way, Dave joins the show! Topics discussed included: podcast history; fixing it in post; fly fishing culture; results vs. experience; walleye on the fly; the stereotypical fly angler; snorkelling with salmon; converting conventional anglers; adapting to change; the Golden Eagles of Oshawa; technology's place in fly fishing; and much more! To never miss an episode of Outdoor Journal Radio, be sure to like, subscribe, and leave a review on your favourite podcast app! Thank you to today's sponsors! Invasive Species Centre - Protecting Canada's land and water from invasive species
View Video Transcript
0:00
[Music] and now another exciting episode in The Adventures of Outdoor Journal
0:06
radio well hello there welcome to the program another exciting episode of Outdoor Journal radio the podcast he is
0:14
Peter Bowman and uh I'm Angela Viola in case you wondering do you have do you remember who did that voice there is
0:20
that a computer voice that the welcome to the show there did you have an
0:26
announcer come in and do all that stuff or how'd that work because he should really should be saying the Outdoor Journal Radio podcast you know what I
0:33
mean he says the show and I'm thinking we should have that modernized Outdoor Journal Radio podcast what you should
0:39
say Dean make a note come on now thank you de people on the YouTube right now
0:44
don't know what we're talking about cuz that gets uh flagged for copyright that song
0:50
oh wow well just to let everybody know watching YouTube we just have this whole
0:55
intro uh audio intro this guy comes on and the geese are honking and the Wombats are going crazy so none of that
1:01
plays on YouTube no cuz the the Superman song I brought that all the the Superman
1:07
song in the background gets flagged why why it's it's free domain it's not yeah
1:13
it is we can fight it but they well I don't you have enough fights in your
1:18
life and right now how many you going through right now do you think how many fights you figure you got going right
1:23
now on on the agenda and the yeah that people don't know about you don't have to say what they are just numbers
1:32
I think a none well you got the you got some stuff that you're fighting with somebody again
1:39
somebody like like like a lawyer stuff and anything like that you know what I mean I got none oh I got none right now
1:45
I have no incumbrances in terms of uh litigation the NRA weren't they the NRA
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you know you got something against the NRA oh no that's the National Rifle Association corre I was thinking the money people oh IRS the IRS you're right
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you're right I knew it always something going in the background with that guy
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always something going on with that guy can I talk about the IRS by the way but before I before I do that am stupid I I
2:16
because it's a funny story and I I need to share that before I do that though I have to tell you guys I had an
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incredible experience this morning on the way to work that blew me away simple
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little experience it wasn't a big deal but it moved me I I I got to tell you
2:34
I'm driving about one block from my house I'm I'm driving up the street and
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I see in the middle of the road that there is something eating something I
2:47
just don't know what it is and as I get closer it Dawns on that this is a very
2:53
large bird this is not my bird this is a huge bird and it was a golden eagle in
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the middle of cartri Drive in Ashawa in ashaa or Whit whever it is eating eating
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a rabbit like a road kill roadkill rabbit and I eased up to it and it
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looked up at me with those big beautiful golden eyes it was magnificent wow it
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was just a massive bird and at just about when I'm right next to it this
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other car was coming down the other lane and it spooked him and he just opened those wings up and I swear to God his
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wingspan it was the size of this desk wow it was just and he just with the rabbit with the rabbit in
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his Talons and it's just lifting up like a helicopter and off it goes in the
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middle of the city wow you could probably if you if you kill another rabbit and put it in
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the middle of the road again he might you know more that's not a bad idea and get this time the idiot that I am would
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take some you had your phone with you didn't you of course but I was so in awe of what I was experiencing live I didn't
4:06
want to take away from that moment to get my phone out and then like I just didn't want to do that you could get our
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good friend boa to kill the rabbit cuz now he's on a killing spree you know he's he knows how to do a a kill thing
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for us so BOA just killed the yellow jacket here because we were not going to run the podcast without that yellow
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jacket dying because he's going to sting one of us so being the taller of uh us two men could reach it and I couldn't
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reach it so which means we cannot put the disclaimer out that no uh no animals
4:34
were hurt during the taping of the show that's right and we were taping at the time so Dean has that audio bit if
4:40
anybody wants to P spend $430 they can have that sent to them right the IRS on the other hand irm too
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uh I I'm having a bit of difficulty it's a 2-year-old problem I just share this
4:54
with you because sometimes you you you hear things and you got to go wait a minute that's got to be made up there's
5:01
no way that that's real there's a bunch of [ __ ] exactly Jimmy K does a mess exactly always yeah Jimmy would have had
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a ball with this you you should have that voice when when she does and push the button just push but that's a bunch
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of [ __ ] you go where did that come from what was that did Jimmy I know that name so get this the IRS owes me
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money and that's the US version of our CRA C
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so the IRS owes me money and it's two years old this debt that
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they have with me so two years ago I started getting on
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their case saying hey hey hey like where's my my goods right I my money I
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oh oh yeah um I see that they we don't
5:56
have a mailing address for you and and and the and and the last time the check was put in the mail it went out with no
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mailing address it just went out with the name of the city well that's kind of odd because
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you've been mailing me stuff for the last 22 years what do you mean now you have no mail anyways sorry sir something
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happened here I'm going to put it in right now boom we're going to reissue the check if you don't get it uh in nine
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weeks call us nine weeks n weeks what
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whoa whoa whoa what do you mean N9 weeks that's like over two months yes sir unfortunately uh the mail service is not
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very quick uh uh between US and Canada blaming the mail what is it Pony Express
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nine weeks the Pony Express was quicker than n but anyways that's okay cuz you can't argue with these folks cuz they'll
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hang up on you right I know that from experience anyways to make a long story
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short five times now in the last two years I'm getting the same excuse from
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them and that is that they don't have my mailing address but what's remarkable
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about this and think about this so first of all for 22 years I had no issues getting uh mail from that getting checks
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from them now they can't see the mail via check because they have no mailing
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address however in between all of these discussions I have with them I get mail
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from them not check mail not mail with checks in it just other mail they have
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an address for that they just don't have it for the check mail wow you talk about
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frustration and you can't like you want to REO the phone and say look it can
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they e transfer you is there a way of doing they could have had we started the transaction that way but now that the
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transaction is is be aack you're going to change your ways from now on if you can absolutely okay if I ever get paid
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right like how do you deal with this stuff so we now have a an
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edsman ombudsman yes that is supposedly going to look into this you got call
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Donald Trump call Donald Trump when he get back I don't I don't want to make this a political issue but when Donal
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was in soon as yeah as soon as Biden came in we had I had problem getting money yeah he sa save it a bit of tax
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dollars interest has nothing to do with politics I don't want to do that so anyways I thought I would share that
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with you anybody else having problems like that let us know I want to know yeah or if you've seen a golden eagle in
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your street or have you seen a beagle with a golden uh golden rabbit rabbit yeah that would work too eyes of an
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eagle and balls of a beagle wonderful program today uh gentleman will be joining us uh his name is Dave Stewart
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he is the host of wet fly swing one of the Premier podcasts in the f by fishing
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fraternity and matter a long time that's for sure matter he's got 600 episodes wonderful guy we're going to meet him a
9:07
little later on the program how many episodes we got Dean this is 119 oh there it is right there right in front
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of my face right right there wow that guy's got a lot six times more experienced than us in the podcast world
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that's right and we're busy at it holy exactly but he does a a weekly show just
9:23
like we do no three times a week oh he does three three times a week that's what he yeah I'm pretty sure you no well
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he says he has three interviews a week he has three interviews but he says he put puts out a show a week right yeah you're right like why are you trying to
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screw me up like it's not hard enough exciting for the audience it is the
9:42
audience entertainment by the way you look lovely in that new set have I told you that before this is my first time on
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uh camera with it I think you just look so you look so stately thank you I think
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is what it is if fits this that this podcast is the one with all this in the background too right seems intentional
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right you figure it is is that what it is fly fishing podcast the Flies behind me oh yeah you know what we never you
10:07
know what we should have done we should have done a closeup yeah so that when he he comes on he'll see that we're serious
10:14
about fly fishing like he'll say oh man these guys are real we should have had you guys back here yeah we should have
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moved into your studio we could have done that he could have put those over here for your new redecoration yeah I
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could have I wonder how many people will even notice if you hadn't just said that that we have probably nobody because I didn't know you know that so but mind
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you they see it more than I do right so anybody say when Angelo he's you want
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you want to write in and say Angelo you did a great job wow does that wall ever look fantastic Angelo you did a great
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job cuz he's already said it for himself too s so um the store fishing can of store we
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have some new items give me a hell yeah some new items that we all excited about the first time
11:01
ever have we kind of played around with the fishing can logo look at there look at there we played around with the fish
11:07
Canada logo and now we have some very very very cool I'm liking this I like it
11:13
I'm liking this you've left out the large MTH bass but you know no he's we got it we got large month no but he's
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not up here I mean no he's not up here you know it's kind of but we have large month as well yeah you're Prof you're
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profiling the fish I think you figure by dropping it out same he's got a big too big a
11:30
get too big of mouth yeah well we should look and write it down we'll look we'll we'll present it to our committee and my
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copor moids it should say them in there just in case anybody was wondering with the scientific name could put that in
11:42
there very nice the boys are doing a good job I I like very good uh you'll love those new uh the new garments are
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absolutely wonderful all available at the store at fishing canada.com or if you're used to going through the back
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door oh my thank you [Music]
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uh that's an insidee joke anybody any that's oh damn that was uh if you that
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you can go to shop. fishing canada.com but honestly like why would
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you do that you guys are brilliant why would you do that why not go through the front door and then you get to
12:23
experience all this wonderful like for like news for example we got all kinds of great news stuff uh on on do we got
12:31
uh all kinds of how's our new writer working out has he got anything anything going yet I think he's going to be on
12:37
his way good yeah he's going to be a little a little Tardy on his deliveries but what's tardy mean what does that
12:42
mean slow okay not that he's not that he's a little slow it's just his
12:48
production is production he's an artist there's a process he's an artist thank you he's an artist he's an artist so so
12:55
you can't you can't rush things okay but uh he's good we'll introduce him well you know you
13:01
know what we're going to do we're going to introduce him after his first article is up we're going to bring him on the podcast and we're going to talk with him
13:09
and we're going to talk about his tardiness yes for sure I like that okay cuz he'll have some good stories about
13:16
days he's got some good stories that guy we should get him to write we should get him to write some of our histo well
13:23
the Cambridge Baye shoot it'd be a great little piece on the on the website oh what a story that would be oh my God God
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anyways uh it's all happening at fishing canada.com um and the store Canada star
13:38
listener feedback Mr B man did you did you remind everybody that our fishing Canada show did you say that I don't
13:43
remember you no it's we don't need don't need it okay redundancy okay okay we listener feedback from
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d d Shari is that right Chari or Chari Chari D charki the Apple podcast uh five
13:58
star rating thank you DJI that was awesome you guys are great and every once in a while
14:04
hilarious a smiley face he didn't want he face beside yeah he didn't want to
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overate it right so well we're not hilarious every minute of the podcast Ed
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every once in a while he says every once in a while you're hilarious okay oh all right he's being funny he's hilarious I
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think he's funnier than we are when you think about that he's getting him a little joke in there you're taking
14:27
offense to that he's given a compliment no I'm not taking offense I'm just curious how how you can say every once in a while we do our best we try we try
14:36
but not always thank you DKI evidently not always successful DKI DKI I like
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that uh also if you go to uh fishing.com apparently we highlight our podcast
14:47
Network there give me a hell yeah you figure well apparently according to my
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book here uh we uh we do talk about all of our various
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on there's a chaga right there look it a you somebody was trying to tell me a mushroom on a tree the other day was a
15:05
chag and I said no that's not a CH but I couldn't find one to show them but they were all those little mushrooms no even
15:11
close not even close no that's not anyways Under The Canopy which is one of our very successful podcasts by the way
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um this is an interesting fact Under The Canopy is either you know in the top
15:26
five but sometimes second even has been first in its category in Canada um on
15:34
the podcast Stratosphere what's the category Dean what is the category that
15:39
nature nature nature yeah good for Jerry so sometimes it's the most listened to
15:44
podcast under the nature category that's awesome the nation and I saw it on the
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TV at the gym the other day popped up popped up on the screen told me that yeah how they highlight nature podcast
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in that category every week and because he was number one it just like scrolled past all the podcast and it highlighted
16:04
the one right next to him but he was on the
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screen did you tell him yeah I did that's hilar hilarious anyway Jerry uh
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if you go there you'll see that we've got uh episode 40 highlighted for you
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it's cooking with medicinal herbs and spices with h Chef Antonio Mala who who
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also happens to be one of our other podcasters on eating wild come on now
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part of our Network so they're collaborating now our our our artists are collaborating that's a good thing
16:42
well when Jerry was on their podcast at the Sportsman show that was very entertaining that was a good that was a
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really good podcast remember that one no I was too busy well you can listen to
16:53
you're supposed to listen to it any you don't have to listen live you you you were busy there signing autographs some
16:59
babies now you got I'm trying to catch up stay with the network bro it's your
17:04
network bro come on um what do we got Jerry sh stars and
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mostly eating wild P done good check it out it's all there at fishing canada.com
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apparently according to Dean hey in the news human there's the title human CWD
17:25
scare turns out to be a false alarm so this is uh it brought up concerns of
17:31
chronic wasting dis go ahead so to Dean's credit I have to say something because he approached me with this story
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uh several weeks ago yes and he he he said that he he heard this and that and
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here's the story as it's developing and and I said great put it up on uh on Doc
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I mean we're always at the Leading Edge of breaking news like this and he said
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nah I don't know I think I'm going to let it breathe for a little a little while I just there's some things I'm not
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comfortable with so we'll let it breathe before I put it up and lo and behold he was right so what did he have
18:08
before versus now well there was a lot of initial reports as soon as the study came out that were conf they said it's
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confirmed now humans can get CWD from De meat at the time that Dean told me about
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this it it was still very much not confirmed right yeah so we were going to
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put it up there as holy mackerel look what's going on which a lot of places did by the way exactly but not us so
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there The Story Goes that the uh there were two Hunters that consumed venison
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correct yep for over a period of time and these two Hunters passed away so the
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first thing is everybody's going ah chronic wasting disease it is it can affect humans it is a bad it is this and
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that and the other and the other but obviously that was the when everybody's reporting that's what they were saying
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it got in it that it was a neurological disease however it wasn't CWD it was cro
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Feld jaob cjd cjd which is cruts Feld
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Jacob which is a PR disease is a brain disease prion disease it's like mad cow
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apparently so um certain proteins in the brain begins to fold abnormally causing
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brain damage and other symptoms and obviously it they're thinking that this caused their death now the the weird
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part about it was did they prove it Dean that it was that that killed them yeah they did it was that that killed them
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yeah they both had it and they both how close did they die within time wise uh they died I so this is part of the
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controversy that made me not want to post it right away because the so they consumed the same deer from the same
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Lodge that was confirmed later to have ccwd in the area but the Inc so the
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incubation period of CWD I think is over like 20 years and it wasn't 20 years ago that they ate this I think it was like
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10 years ago or even less than that less than that yeah even less than that so it didn't really make sense right off the
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bat that that would have killed them so like they've probably had this cjd in
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their like in their body for like 20 years plus so did the deer have CWD as
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well yes both yep oh my God no no not both it had CWD cjd what is that then
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no cjd is what the two men actually died of right okay it didn't come from the
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deer did not okay right okay I thought when he said it's like a mad cow disease
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maybe that was a you know some kind of relation to all this totally unrelated separate thing this is what they
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actually died of but the original report said that they died of CWD right so
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Dean in his Divine wisdom said there's something wrong here nobody dies this
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doesn't sound right they don't die from that [ __ ] around here anymore never they never did never did so yeah so they got
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to to me it's like it's pretty scary cuz I mean I'm not laughing by the way at the cuz if they found out that this was
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transfer like transferable to humans the Hunts would be banned pretty quick I think of course like it's a and we'll
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put the beat on that guy walking there yeah yeah I get you kind of scary they say so on this cjd is that the 350 cases
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are diagnosed every year in the US correct I wonder if uh that's just the US did they say anything about Canada
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they see anything like that no it's super rare though I mean that's why it is kind of suspicious that two people
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who were like lifelong Hunting Buddies did both get it yeah cuz I think it's like one in a million chance of getting
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it so it's is kind of weird that two that two buddies got it but yeah yeah quite a story yeah the story behind the
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story is that that man right there he knew not to publish it he oh he's good I no true ever doubt
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you watch give me something a hell yeah or something give me a hell yeah hell yeah you watch cuz Today's Show is a
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perfect example of how smart Dean is because their our show is going to be very fly fishing concentric and Dean as
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much of a spin and bayter guys we know him as he is quite the fly Fisher so he will probably be showing some of his uh
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you know if we can get him involved in the interview a little bit I think he'll uh he'll show you that he needs a he
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needs a deserves a raise and pay uh Sam
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sorry buddy I tried Sam D austino from Alberta via email incidentally um
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submitted the fan question to us this week he submitted it to info at fishing
22:44
canada.com in case you're wondering for all of you sitting out there saying how come I can't get any questions answered
22:50
my dad God bless him before he passed away he emailed he used to say he used to say to my mom how come so and so we
22:58
don't see so and so anymore how come we don't see so and so and this guy and that guy my mom you say you fool what do
23:05
you think they're just going to come walking through your living room in order to see all these people you got to get up off that chair and get out and go
23:11
see them well some folks might be sitting there saying how come Dean never gets one of my questions for the boys to
23:18
answer well in order to do that you needs to write it into us come on now
23:23
info what if they are rating in and they're not still not getting published what's the deal then well then they got
23:29
they need bad question B question there are what what designates a good question
23:34
from a bad question question is like what's your what's the biggest bass you've caught that's a bad question it
23:41
was a good question in our first five episodes right but now it's a bad question we've grown a little bit
23:47
haven't we yeah now we do very very intelligent questions like this one right here like this one right here so
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that's the speaking of sophisticated question Sam dioo from Alberta
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uh says as we see inflation taxes and gas prices
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rise will there be less and less people getting out on the water there you go
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that's a very deep deep question that's a very good question and I think let's be honest that's it's there has to be a
24:20
point where people can't afford it and I mean getting out in the water is two things you can walk down the bank right
24:26
you can drive your bicycle to the bank of a river and fish that's very cost effective or you can get your truck like
24:34
we're going to do this year and drive up to Northwestern onario dragging a boat behind us with
24:39
250 or New Brunswick or Nova Scotia or Nova Scotia drive all over the place or
24:45
we're flying to Northwest Territories but but all that's at a cost and yeah you're right that is very hard to afford
24:51
that you know that that's you you need to save some buck up for that deal right do you know what though all honesty and
24:58
I I I don't want to downplay the fact that there's so much pressure on everybody out there with regards to cost
25:05
of living I don't want to downplay that but I I remember 30 40 years ago saying
25:12
the same thing yeah absolutely house prices how in the hell can people afford
25:18
to go fishing M with with taxes where they are with with gasoline prices where
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they are like with mortgages where so I don't want to downplay the but but it is
25:29
no it's huge but I think you know you be be careful with your money throughout the the non-fish if you're really if
25:36
you're a nutcase like myself if you're a nutcase about Bo fishing and you want to get out there and my truck pulls my boat
25:42
and all that and it's expensive well then I don't go and blow my money on something else I try to save my money and sort of put it towards my fishing so
25:48
that you know you kind of you can kind of uh I don't know just save a bit you
25:53
know to do something I'm not giving up my fishing no I might give up something else not giving up my fishing it's funny
25:59
we learned that during the pandemic right that fishing was one of those things that you you is it's
26:06
uncompromised you know a lot of things we gave up a lot of things during the pandemic as a community but uh fishing
26:13
wasn't one of them in fact statistics tell us that the activity actually
26:20
increased during the pandemic yeah yeah yeah so we I I remember towards the end
26:26
of it when we were still this towards the end they saying people can't even sit in the same car and all that kind of
26:31
stuff you know what I mean at one point where there some Mikey burus and I we wanted to fish together we brought two
26:37
boats we said piss on it we're going to take the expense we're going to you know and we brought we went side by side for
26:43
a while shooting the ship with each other then he'd go over there I go over here we go back and talk and reported to yeah it was we just said we're not
26:51
letting the pandemic stop us we're not letting gas prices stop us we're so you increase the cost the hell with the cost
26:57
we're going to double that's what I'm saying we we're going to when your when your mind is set to do it that's what
27:02
you do right you save your money somewhere else all [Music]
27:17
right the humble goldfish everyone's favorite aquatic pet it's small easy to
27:23
care for what's there not to love even the cat may be mesmerized by the color and movements of your aquarium friends
27:29
goldfish are great at home but don't let them loose releasing goldfish or other domestic aquatic pets or plants into
27:36
natural environments is harmful to both your pet and the planet Gish disrupt ecosystems by out competing native
27:43
species for food and resources in degraded habitats they contribute to Allergy blooms they kill aquatic
27:48
wildlife and pass viruses and diseases contracted in aquariums to Wildfish they could even live up to 40 years and grow
27:56
as big as a football and Anglers this is where you come in if you find a goldfish
28:01
at your local fishing spot report it to the invading species hotline or go online to Ed
28:09
maps.com remember to never dump your live bait into the water and risk spreading other Aquatic Invaders keep
28:15
our legs free from Invaders and don't let them [Music]
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loose as the world gets louder and louder the lessons of our natural world
28:30
become harder and harder to hear but they are still available to those who know where to
28:38
listen I'm Jerry olette and I was honored to serve as Ontario's minister of Natural Resources however my journey
28:46
into the woods didn't come from politics rather it came from my time in the bush
28:51
and a mushroom in 2015 I was introduced to the
28:57
birch hry fungus known as chaga a tree Kong with centuries of medicinal use by
29:03
indigenous peoples all over the globe after nearly a decade of harvest use
29:09
testimonials and research my skepticism has faded to Obsession and I now spend
29:15
my life dedicated to improving the lives of others through natural means but that's not what the show is about my
29:22
pursuit of the strange mushroom and my passion for the outdoors has brought me to the places and around the people
29:28
that are shaped by our natural world on Outdoor Journal radios Under The Canopy
29:33
podcast I'm going to take you along with me to see the places and meet the people
29:39
that will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to Nature and Under The Canopy find
29:47
Under The Canopy now on Spotify Apple podcasts or wherever else you get your
29:54
podcasts all righty then uh let's move on our guest today is uh fellow
29:59
podcaster name is Dave Stewart as I mentioned at the top of the program a host of wet fly swing podcast welcome to
30:06
the program how are you buddy thanks guys awesome great to be here love your
30:11
background 2017 you've been at this Dave since 2017 I didn't even know been going
30:17
strong when has the first podcast ever been invented anybody have any idea I
30:22
have NOA but that's got to be close like you no no no not even close actually I know the podcast history pretty well was
30:28
more like 2005 really really yeah the first one yeah going way back but 2011
30:34
10 11 12 it really started getting to what we know it and really growing for to the mainstream okay I I told this
30:41
story before in the show um what's his name my uh Steve uh labid
30:49
yeah uh our old radio producer this show used to be a radio show and um and so
30:55
one day after the show he says you know he says we I don't remember it could have been 14
31:00
15 you know maybe 16 he says we we we we really ought to do a podcast with this
31:07
show I could have just heard you I could have just heard you right there cynical freaking podcast yeah I said what the
31:14
hell's a podcast and he says well he says it's a place where where we we
31:20
record the shows and we put them on a shelf and then people can consume them
31:26
at will they can go and come and and I looked at are you a total
31:32
idiot why so you want me to give the
31:37
audience an opportunity to listen to the show on their terms and their time and
31:44
cannibalize my live radio show that people have to tune in and listen and that at the time made so much sense to
31:51
me he looked at me he says yeah I guess you're right and off we went are you guys loving it are you
31:57
loving you know it's it is fun like it's great format you know what I mean it's going
32:03
to about freefor all if you want to go an hour you go an hour you want to go 10 minutes you go 10 minutes you know what I mean so it's it's it's a whole
32:09
different atmosphere for sure you know I you don't have our c ctrc i mean whatever you call it crtc or whatever
32:15
they are coming after us I don't think anyways are they are going to know are they yeah we've got some new laws and in
32:22
this wonderful country but we shall not go there oh we're going to break every
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one of them no we're going to bust them so all right talk to us uh like how did this whole
32:33
thing happen 600 episodes he's got over 600 episodes in this deal so yeah we're rolling wow you rolling I I love it I I
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would guess I love podcasting more than you guys it's it's like everything since the since 2017 actually before that 2015
32:49
we also had the wetfly swing blog and I just love podcasting I was listening to all these business podcasts and every
32:54
you know everything I was just all podcast I said you know what I'm going to set a goal two years I'm going to have my own podcast just out of nowhere
33:01
and two years later December 2017 I launched the wetf swing podcast focused on steel head fly fishing our first ep
33:07
season was all steel head all you know we've expanded out to everything now I me we just did an episode on makeo
33:13
sharks on the Fly and we do hunting and everything but but I started in 20 the
33:18
success I mean every week since then we haven't missed a week whether holiday you name every you start out every
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Tuesday we were doing episodes full length interviews we've gone to now we do three full length interviews every
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week we've been doing that uh all year so we have a lot of content and I just love talking to people and it's worked
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out excellent good for you the only difference between this and live radio is the fact that you know we're not
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committed to recording this program at a particular time we do it every week just
33:47
like you but the radio we don't even have to record the program in order no
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if you know what I'm saying yeah yeah you know what I mean so or or we we can group record we'll do two or three
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programs so that that part um differentiates The Experience from live
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radio but otherwise the rest of it is just great it feels wonderful I I think
34:10
it's just a a natural progression for us there is something about live though that I I keep telling Pete you know it
34:17
it there's something about live that you just don't get with podcast
34:23
right there's that true that moment you open the door and you Hang On The Edge
34:28
and you look down and here we go and you jump out and that's the only part right
34:34
that's the only we did a live last night we did a live webinar with you know there was a few hundred people lined up
34:40
and so I do those live things and it is fun you know because you got these questions coming in right and you're feeling and there's always that Tech
34:47
issue that could happen you're always like worried that there's going to be something but you know the podcast I have another show I do where I focus on
34:53
marketing uh you know experts and I've interviewed some of the best podcasting experts around the country and you know
35:00
they you know just as a tip one of the things they say about podcasting is the nice thing is is that the editing part people don't think about that but every
35:06
little bit of editing he said that you can do to clean it up makes your show that much better oh yeah right so that's
35:12
something that that you can't do live and so there are certain things as hosts I have little things I do and everybody
35:17
where you can actually cut those out and people will never know it and your show will be better right without question
35:23
post production fixes everything we're in the television world that's what we do for a living and uh man we go we do a
35:30
fishing uh fishing show here in Canada and we'll shoot we'll shoot days of footage to get it down to 15 minutes on
35:37
the TV show you know what I mean stuff like that and 14 days in post- production to do that our crew spends
35:44
two weeks in post to come up with that Wow we must make a lot of mistakes out
35:50
there there's something you don't know anything about who anyways um so flying F fishing
35:58
so first of all how did you get into fly fishing where did this come from yeah it's pretty much my entire life my dad
36:04
had he was a guide uh and so I grew up in Oregon and the dutes river is a big river down here and you know I just grew
36:10
up on the river I mean as long as I can remember I had the fly rod he was a guy I was on the river basically teaching
36:16
adults how to cast way back in the day when I was a little kid you know and I slowly got to a point yeah and and the
36:22
podcast you know just came like we said came around as a nice transition and and
36:27
it was just the perfect timing at the time I remember we launched the podcast it was kind of thinking like wow it seems like we're late to the game but
36:34
actually in in the space we're still early I mean to be honest with you right now podcasting is still relatively young
36:39
you know there's a lot of room for growth yeah but but yeah it started out there I mean fishing steel head like I said was my big species trout fishing
36:46
rainbows all that stuff and I've just been a lifelong Outdoorsman whether that's hunting you know trail running
36:52
fishing like I I love it all I'm kind of the Jack of all traits but I built this thing around fly fishing where are you
36:58
based at I was just same thing you said orgon earlier or whatever yeah right now yeah so I'm on the coast I'm literally I
37:04
could hear the ocean uh right from my place and we're so I'm two hours West of Portland Oregon okay and you have steel
37:10
head rivers that are coming in sort of thing like that yeah within a few minutes steel header right in the back
37:15
backyard perfect you know fly fishing is one of those it's much maligned in the angling world as you probably know uh
37:22
although that's changed in the last 10 years or so I would think where it's become a little bit more mainstream but
37:29
it's still it's still considered off to the left for most Ang and we talk about
37:34
I love this conversation because we talk about this a lot in in our space so why is that what do you think why is that I
37:41
they're Majestic fish they're gorgeous fish they're stronger than a bass and a pike and a Musky together well you're
37:47
assuming it's it's onedimensional you're assuming you can only fish trout or sand yeah it's everything anything you guys
37:52
can fish you name a species and I'll show you a guest I've had on that's fish for that with the flly no I'm talking about Ste head itself oh just steel
37:59
steel head steel head you don't have to fly fish for them steel head but but I think the the I think the difference is
38:07
that and correct me if I'm wrong uh but I think the the difference Dave is
38:13
that as we'll call them you know spin Anglers right as opposed to fly
38:19
conventional Anglers we tend to be result oriented in other words it's not
38:26
so much the game the art the art yeah whereas with fly fishing I know guys you
38:33
remember Alf Walker our old buddy how could I forget Al it didn't matter whether he he ever saw a fish or not he
38:41
he he would just get out and and practice this wonderful craft that he had honed over over years and years of
38:50
experience right and he just wanted to get out and do that thing and and and if he got a fish that what a great bonus
38:55
for him yeah and that's the way I see the difference between the two okay okay on a scale of 1 to 10 Dave the catch
39:04
versus the whole thing where are you putting that like do you have to go out and get a catch in there or is it just
39:10
like answer you know and we you don't have to get a catch for sure but I you know I think that what I see and there's
39:17
tons of people we talk about this all the time and there's lots of people that fly fish that also conventional fish there's lots of people that started out
39:23
conventional and then they got into fly fishing part of it I think is that fly fishermen like like the pain a little bit you know what I mean like the
39:29
challenge because fly fishing I'm not going to say it's harder than just conventional fishing but I feel like we
39:35
try to get to these things like musky for example can you catch musky on a fly rod actually we're setting up a trip to
39:40
go to Wisconsin this year I'm gonna be flying there and connecting with our listeners and it's not easy to catch a
39:47
Musky some people might not even catch a Musky the entire time so why do we do that because for the challenge and then
39:53
also all that stuff that goes along with it like just being on the water I mean we all appreciate that right Outdoors whether we're sitting here in front of a
39:59
computer but would you rather be outdoors on the river I think everybody would say yes even if we're not catching fish yeah for sure so so let me see if I
40:05
can dumb this down for me what you're saying is what you're trying to what
40:11
you're is we know it's going to be harder or in some cases damn near
40:18
impossible for me to catch anything fly fishing but it doesn't matter I don't
40:25
care I'm just there for the game but actually that and I will say that is
40:30
maybe for some is true I we like to catch fish trust me I've caught I've gone out in a session I love catching
40:36
steel head I love catching trout and you actually there are times when it's easier to catch with the fly right in
40:41
the right situation and the technology now you won't believe right the lines everything has gotten gotten so good
40:47
yeah that you can catch more fish now so we go to the great lakes and we fish for steel head and you know our guides out
40:53
there are amazing and they got these lines are so dialed in that we can get down to the exact inch of where that fish is holding right so it's different
41:00
than it used to be we're not using bamboo rods and silk lines anymore so I think we love to catch fish I've eaten I
41:06
love eating fish I love yeah it's I'll bet you there's a fish you've never caught on a fly one that I haven't
41:13
caught yeah musky have you got a Musky on yeah there's been so many actually to be honest with you I mean we're traveling a little bit now but I've got
41:19
so many on my bucket list MH you never you've never caught a walleye all bet
41:24
and that's one I want to catch that's a tough told by a fly Fishers that that's
41:30
probably the most difficult uh freshwater game Fish Target yeah on a
41:36
fly I don't hear about it a lot but I didn't think it'd be difficult wow yeah apparently from what I'm Mark uh Mark
41:42
and Colin you know the folks at new fly Fisher television oh yeah yeah he's we
41:47
had Colin y Colin's been on we've done three new fly Fisher episodes oh nice they're good friends of ours oh great
41:53
yeah know Colin's awesome we actually have our can you know our Canadian Brothers we we have a in our Feed The
41:58
lural Zone podcast is Phil Roy he's in Canada and he's our a Still Water expert
42:04
yes nice cool but uh he's the one that told me Colin told me that that walleye has got to be the most difficult one on
42:10
his and he's caught like you he's caught just about everything uh yeah he'd know he's in RA in ALA country all the time
42:16
right he's R in Walley Central so Wai for some reason I I don't know why I mean other you think like on the mayfly
42:22
hatch they'd be easier to catch with that but probably nobody goes for him then with a fly I think that's probably what it is you know what I mean we're
42:28
having a difficult time trying to get them when when they're eating bugs but would you I think that's it with
42:34
Walley I think it it's that there and again you just gave by the way you gave me my next episode topic idea Wye on the
42:39
fly so stay tuned but I think I think they're deeper I think they just stay deeper in lakes and things like that so
42:45
they're harder to get down to with with our fly gear you'd be surprised at that summer we go in a little bit north and
42:51
and we we find not only are they shallower than we always perceived it the bigger ones are usually shallow in
42:57
the summer like shallower like less than 10 ft of water you can get them in the middle of the day even though their eyes are you know the whole thing with the
43:03
light and all that they surprise you sometimes they're just a predator they get up Shallow and they want to eat right the food takes over everything so
43:09
it's yeah a bit of a misconception there so I think another thing about fly fishing that kind of kept it as I said
43:17
it's considered to the left of center I think one of the other things I kept it there is that for forever for years it
43:24
was um you you really had to do some searching this is pre uh web you really
43:30
had to search to get the product I mean just getting rods reels lines like none of the conventional
43:37
retailers were selling much of that stuff so that even kept it kind of exclusive because because accessibility
43:44
for product was almost impossible that's changed today I trust like you can pretty much get anything anywhere it's
43:49
amazing today I mean and we always joke about too the the old white guy right the fly fisherman is this old yep white
43:55
guy that doesn't want to let anybody in that's it's it's gotten more diverse and we you know it's all about diversity of
44:00
species and you you know crappie fly fishing in your backyard right that's go for it uh but gear 100% I mean I
44:07
actually set up a link at web swing.com ojd which is a intro to flight fishing so if anybody wants to get a Basics like
44:14
how to cast I put a couple videos in there so and then there's also a link that says here's where you can get a package fly rod this is from Readington
44:21
there's lots of great Brands everybody has a good package but you know you can get one of these packages rod reel line for under 300
44:27
a great rod that's going to last Your Life Time same as spinning then really in that sense you have to agree though
44:34
you have to agree no matter how um you want to insist that it's
44:42
easy you can't tell me that if you take the same scenario all conditions being
44:47
the same that you can teach a person to fly fish quicker or as quick as you can
44:53
teach him to angle with a spinning gear no oh no the cast the cast the Fly cast
44:59
is the thing right so you have but again you can learn it and my one of my tips is you know keep it simple right so you
45:06
can learn to fly cast there's a video that on that link that shows you exactly how to fly cast it's not everybody makes
45:12
a harder than it is it's actually a lot easier easier than you think that I'll have to give you I I agree because we we
45:20
dabble with it we don't do it we don't I think I think the last time you and I did a fly fishing was River only time
45:28
only time I've ever fly fished in my life for pinks and there was pinks and there was everything in there but I
45:33
think we got most it was a blast we had a great time it was fun that actually that episode was a real departure in so
45:40
many levels I mean number one the fact that we were fly fishing for them but prior to fishing for them we dawned uh
45:49
wet suits and we actually floated down the cell River with snorkel equipment
45:55
and and watched these fish and oh my were you were they swimming like next
46:00
to your head and stuff totally immersed there was one at one point uh I remember
46:05
you know the picture in your mind right I remember looking over at him and he was about I don't know 20 30 ft away
46:13
from me and he was partially obstructed with salmon like he was in in the middle
46:19
of so many see all those bricks in the wall behind us here they were all salmon every one of those was salmon for you
46:25
know 100 ft that amazing and and no uh sign of intimidation or fear yeah they
46:32
thought you were a fish yeah we just we just hung in with them just slow sort oh
46:37
and then we got out got the rods and we spanked them spanked them with a flag GE so and there was a black bear walking up
46:43
the shore eating Sam we had to get out of his way cuz he was walking through there how was the cast for you guys was it you know to get the line out there no
46:49
not bad really I got he's done it before as a kid um I I did probably as much of
46:57
it as as spinning bed but I'll tell you one thing though I will tell you one thing is
47:03
that it if you've been away from it for a while it takes a bit of time to get
47:08
your form back right to get that nice fluid motion because it's all about that motion and yeah when I get away from it
47:14
it takes me a bit to to get back in the swing of things I'll tell you another thing with me on that trip is that and I
47:20
was having a real I I had an easier time learning to cast than I was at getting
47:25
the fish catching the fish and I of course I'm I'm concentrating more about the cast than anything right because
47:31
it's the first day ever doing it so that when I'm I'm ping The Reeling in what do you call it stripping it in mending it
47:36
in whatever like that I was just basically getting it out there and then just retrieving it and I wasn't getting
47:42
then the guy that the guide that was with us he says slow it down let it get deeper and as soon as he said that let
47:48
it get deeper okay now I got to start fishing using my mind for fishing instead of this this you know and as soon as I did that slowed it down boom I
47:54
started catching them too so it was neat like like setting the hook and pulling pull mending the line in like that
48:00
instead of reeling it in it was all it was pretty cool I have to say we we should do another one I didn't turn that
48:06
off we should do another one what do it matter with you I I thought that's your windshield guy that's your boat
48:11
windshield guy oh probably it is it is I know Hank that's Hank my phone is
48:17
ringing nobody nobody can hear it's Incognito I got a question for Dean Taylor Dean our our um producer producer
48:23
here he he fishes both but I didn't know when first came on he does fly fishing and conventional what do you prefer Dean
48:31
do you prefer one over the other is it harder one harder the other what's your thoughts I like fly fishing way better
48:36
but I grew up I grew up fishing tournaments and like I guided uh conventional I never fly fish as a guide
48:44
right so now it's just like kind of a new challenge I'm still I've only been fly fishing probably eight years oh so
48:51
I'm Rel but like relatively new in that World um okay I think uh we were talking
48:57
about like what's most intimidating and for me it was the culture like fly fishing culture is like I I get it's
49:03
changing a little bit but it's it's uh depending on like what parts of the internet you live it's not super
49:08
inviting yeah interesting yeah yeah you need your Orest backpack and your
49:14
special this and all that Ascot yeah dry flies only and whole and there is always
49:21
there will always be some of that but you know I can tell you after interviewing all these people big from
49:26
biggest names to smallest names you know it just comes up a lot that we're all uh we all understand that that stuff has
49:33
gone on and it's out there but I think it's just like the environmental stuff like we we need to focus on it and get
49:39
rid of some of the stuff that's hurting hurting us right and so I think that you I agree 100% you have this thing out
49:46
there but you know I know know myself I'm one of the largest fly fishing podcasts in the US and we talk about it
49:52
a lot like we understand like yeah when those trolls are out there and you have trolls whether you're in whatever right
49:57
there's always going to be trolls and you can't do anything about that but I I do feel like we are working our way to a
50:03
better place is there like a a cool Factor now in fly fishing now you know it's getting very hip very younger
50:08
people kind of a cool thing to do atph I just actually hook have you guys ever
50:14
heard of the brand hook it's up yeah out of Quebec so I just interviewed them yesterday and uh and Fred is an amazing
50:20
guy he's got connections to some of the indigenous folks and things like that but we talked about this whole conversation and he said like on the
50:27
rivers now fishing for Atlantic salmon which used to be used to have to have a lot of money to fish and catch Atlantic salmon now there's all sorts of young
50:33
hipsters out there doing it and we because we've made it easier for people to get into you don't have to spend
50:38
$10,000 on a trip to fish for Atlantic salmon right so I think I do feel like there's a lot of that Dave Dave do we
50:44
have a a a handle on the number um of folks who pursue fly fishing for their
50:52
angling fix versus standard Anglers spin Anglers do we have a percentage or a number I think it's roughly again I'm
50:59
going to highlight our we had ASA uh the the sport fishing Association on recently and they talked about it but I
51:05
believe it's something like I want to say seven million uh in the US at least 7 million fly Anglers and then I think
51:13
the conventionals like a 100 million or something like that right okay maybe it's even bigger yeah but it's a it's a
51:19
it's a 10% or or even just under two two a digit which which you know what uh
51:25
isn't bad because I remember back when I was in the retail industry it wasn't even I don't even think it was a single
51:32
digigit number so yeah it it has come a long way but yeah what's exciting about
51:37
that for I would think for anybody who's into it um is that it's got so much room to grow yeah you know if all you have to
51:44
do and and and let me ask you that question too um because I'm always thinking in terms of marketing oh yeah
51:51
are is the industry focused on converting or
51:57
introducing new right right I think it's always been
52:03
trying to do both but I feel like uh I feel like it's converting like I think
52:08
people are still especially trips and more expensive stuff like hey we know these people that have been in it for 10
52:14
years are going to buy the $500 the Thousand Rod so that's where we can get our money although again people are
52:19
talking about like hey we need to get more people into this we need new fresh people brand new and that's why I've set up the this series on our our blog
52:27
that shows you how to get into it and I think a lot of brands are doing that because they understand like yeah we need more people and to be honest with
52:32
you the the world behind me is for a reason right it's that we find that the more people that get into fly fishing
52:38
become conservationists and and oriented to protect so we had yvon shanard you know founder of Patagonia on and I
52:44
interviewed him just like this and he you know and so he's always thinking about our planet right how do we save
52:49
our home planet we've got all these and again it goes back to fishing what's going on with steelhead right now numbers are not good Atlantic salmon
52:56
places in Norway where numbers are not good so how do we fix that we've got to protect our home planet and we can do that with a lot of things so I always
53:02
Focus so I think the more new people we get into fly fishing the more people that are going to think about doing things that are good for the environment
53:09
and I don't think there's any doubt of the fact that that fly Anglers tend to
53:15
skew higher towards conservation than than non-f fly fly but why but you guys
53:22
tell me why this is because again we're all fishermen and Hunters wouldn't you think that conservation and which is
53:28
just basically protecting our species wouldn't that be just as uh high in that space It should be you think it would be
53:34
but I think back in the day back in the day like my dad my grandpa and all that you caught him and you ate them right
53:41
every knock them and even if if there's a limit there I didn't know that they didn't even care about limits to tell
53:46
them to tell them Catch and Release Catch and Release and how good a Walley taste you know what I mean stuff like
53:52
that it's pretty tough you know what I mean even even when I was growing up my my uh my dad took me Brook tro fishing a
53:58
lot now we didn't fly fish at all but we conventional fish but we were out there and we were keeping some brookies we
54:03
were not throwing we threw a couple of big ones back but we if they were like a 12 14 incher or whatever 12 13 incher we
54:10
were keeping them for a pan fry you know what I mean that was the way we grew up that's the way I grew up and dad said you don't throw that back you son [ __ ]
54:16
you're going in the criek after it you know what I mean so so I think it's been it's been bred into us a lot now with I
54:22
think the the world of bass fishing tournaments has really changed a lot I think that's changed everything you know
54:28
what I mean for as far as catching releasing now like Ang and I now he grew up the same with me they kept fishing they ate fish and and we do at lodes
54:35
still for a Shor lunch but for the most part we're throwing everything back pretty well unless you want a meal you
54:41
know what I mean you don't feel the freezer up anymore or anything like that so we just got I don't know it's been a
54:46
thing I think with the with the conventional angers it's we've we've kept a lot of fish in our day so you
54:52
don't hear fly Anglers taking the time out of their day to do a Shor launch for example you know what I mean it's just
54:58
something you know it's unheard of I've done we we will be doing short I've done short lunches 100% we I love eating fish
55:06
I would I would kill I'd fill my freezer if it didn't hurt the population I would fill my in fact we had steel head days
55:13
when steel numbers were really great to know straight up and I'm not even sure if I've ever said this but we would fill
55:18
you know steel head it's not a so again if the the idea being is we want to get our populations healthy enough so we can
55:24
kill fish that's the idea that's the problem is some of these populations are so low they can't they need help to get
55:30
them above that little Point once they get back up there let's sure let's take some fish within a healthy range it's
55:35
like Hunters right Hunters are the greatest conservationist absolutely but
55:41
to your point that's their goal is to get the populations to a point where they can kill them that's right that's
55:47
what Hunters do absolutely and for this guys check this one out so Fred on the you know the hook a the podcast that we
55:52
had he talked about hunting as well in Quebec and he said hey we starting to get people out there that aren't going
55:58
they're going hunting but without a gun they're literally going out there and they're checking out wildlife and all this stuff right so I mean even that's
56:04
going on in hunting for sure for sure there's a transition there happening for sure that we're probably not not aware
56:11
of hey Dave do you have anything going on in the US or you're on the west coast right yeah so on the west coast in your
56:17
Rivers we were talking about steel head salmon and stuff like that here in in Canada on our East Coast our our
56:24
Atlantic salmon runs have really been changed and depleted whatever it
56:30
ising however there's a lot of angling opportunities that are changing strip bass smallo bass musky are all in these
56:37
areas now have you got anything like that going on in your place in your area yeah and to be honest with you my area
56:42
even though I'm physically in Oregon I mean I'm Saturday I'm flying to Virginia to fish the shann andoa so I'm I fish
56:47
outside of Oregon now more than I do in Oregon but it's happening everywhere again I've interviewed people whether
56:52
it's in New York you know anywhere around the world I mean these things that we're seeing here you know I don't want to paint a doomsday pitch because I
56:58
don't think it is I I think there's a lot of good stuff that's coming but there's a lot of numbers that are on the downturn you know atlanic Salmon's one
57:05
steel head brook trout and what it is is and we all talk about it right climate change the climate is changing a little
57:11
bit and it's changing enough that it's affecting these fish that are cold water that need cold water so brook trout need
57:16
cold water they're one of those species So and I've had even guests on the show say guess what brook trout in Maine are
57:23
going away they're eventually going to be gone so get ready for small fast because those fish will be around there's a lot of push back a lot of push
57:30
back out there though from traditionalist right I mentioned to the folks at the beginning of this episode
57:35
um when I on my way in this morning and I live in in a a very urban area uh in
57:42
the middle of the road eating a dead rabbit was for the first time ever and
57:47
I've only seen one before was a golden eagle oh wow in Southern Ontario in the
57:53
GTA in the Toronto area I mean unheard of I I I only say that because it's
57:59
funny you you you're you're talking about whether we call it climate change
58:04
global warming whatever the hell we want Call It Whatever there's something going on and there's change is a foot there's
58:10
no question about it yeah but I I think now to that golden eagle that Golden
58:15
Eagle was there because something has changed and it's a normal environment and it's moving into more urban
58:21
areas when I hear stories about what's happening on the East Coast here with the musky and and bass and
58:29
stripers it would be like us looking at that bald eagle and shooting it and saying now get out of here you don't
58:34
belong here you're you're an invasive species you don't you know you're going to upset the ecosystem it's no different
58:40
people some people would do that some people would think that way and probably trying to do it you know what I mean so it's no different you know it's funny
58:46
how we as as humans have this predetermined notion of how things should be and if it's altered it's got
58:53
to be bad right it has to be bad right there's no other there's no other that's
58:59
that guy might be good for your raccoon problem that you have around there I tell you he's gonna fix all all the
59:04
rabbit problems I got yeah yeah yeah what a beautiful bird do you see many
59:10
golden eagles you know that's one we don't see a ton of we see them around we see lots of bald
59:16
eagles everywhere but no again I don't see to I and I always go back a little
59:21
bit to the conservation but I think that's a good that's a good positive thing right we could go back right now see where we are but go back to the mid
59:27
70s when we really had some crazy stuff right in Silent Spring Rachel Carson wrote this book that basically got the
59:33
word out about DDT in in the country and guess what happened they got rid of dtt and guess what happened to those bald
59:39
eagles which were disappearing they came back right so it does work we just have to give it time right we all you know my
59:45
dad is in his mid 80s he's really struggling now and and I remember him 20 years tell 20 years ago telling me about
59:52
when the steel numbers were going down he said man I don't have that much longer to live I can't wait for these things to come back but to be honest
59:58
with you we all have to give it time this might take 50 years 100 years who knows right right absolutely a process I
1:00:04
remember and I don't want to stick to Eagles here but I remember Pete and I were in uh I want to say Montana I'm
1:00:10
pretty sure it was Montana that years ago we were shooting Outdoor Journal right and you remember that guy taking
1:00:15
us to that place where all those Eagles were all those uh oh yeah it was Montana wasn't it yeah I think so yeah this guy
1:00:22
was uh we were we were doing a cowboy riding in the mountains episode and um as as a sidebar one of
1:00:31
the guys we were working with says you guys you get many bald eagles up where you come from and I well yeah of course
1:00:37
yeah we're in the north okay and you ain't seen bald eagles he says till I I'm going to show you and he took us
1:00:43
down this Ravine and around this band everywhere and we looked out and I'm
1:00:50
telling you Dave it was the most impressive thing I've ever seen there had to be a thousand wow Eagles
1:00:56
all roosting on Treetops by a river weird at least a thousand it sure they
1:01:03
weren corn RS right it was Yeah by today's standards
1:01:09
it would be like cornr amazing all over the shore they're feeding on feeding on fish right I think
1:01:16
yeah and he was saying the same thing that you know it wasn't that many years ago that you'd never see this but he
1:01:21
says uh obviously things are getting better and yeah you know so I I don't know but it it was one of those you know
1:01:28
those moments in time you have that snapshot that sticks here and night I also remember those guys controlling the
1:01:33
badger population they didn't like those things in in their cow Fields I'll tell you that yeah they dispatched those
1:01:44
[Music]
1:01:52
babies we interrupt this program to bring you the much anticipated bonus code for the latest fishing cada
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fishing canada.com while you listen to the rest of this episode click contests
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and sign up for all the latest fishing canidate giveaways and now back to the
1:02:32
show what's um so what's what's coming up um with wet fly swing oh man we've
1:02:39
always got a bunch going on you know I mean with our content schedule doing three full length interviews a week I
1:02:45
mean those are always we've got that's just a constant you know content machine
1:02:51
but it's hard to look ahead to be honest with you I've got I've got a little team as well so when I do these things now I
1:02:56
do an interview it goes into the queue I don't even think about it until it goes live everything but we have lots of
1:03:01
events we do so we do some really cool events around uh basically doing giveaways so we do a big trip giveaway
1:03:08
every month so this month we just gave away a trip to B we're doing one for musky we're doing this trip actually May
1:03:14
13th I'm not sure when this goes live but May 13th we're launching a Musky giveaway so one person can win that and
1:03:19
and basically $6,000 worth of gear we do this awesome giveaway and then I go out there and I I meet up with the people
1:03:26
and then we get some people to meet up with us and we do a big musky truck awesome budy that's great we do those every month so if you go to web
1:03:32
swing.com you can check out our most recent thing uh the other thing we're really launching which is I'm excited about is our is our Pro Community we're
1:03:39
calling it the shop and so this is going to be a place where all of our listeners can come in online to a place and take
1:03:45
all the education further with webinars and just hanging out just kind of my thought is you go into you know a local
1:03:51
fly shop or your fishing store have a beer hang out talk about fishing learn to learn better at and then and then
1:03:56
build a trip around the community so I'm actually creating a community for our it took me a while we've had a community
1:04:02
but this is going to be a really powerful one so I'm excited about that so this is this is like a live cast
1:04:07
something that you you would on a particular day or time a little bit of everything yeah it'll be something where
1:04:12
people any time of the day people can go and just chat so it'll be a forum based thing but also there'll be these Live Events so every week we have a Q&A where
1:04:18
I come in and answer questions for people we'll bring in a a guru each week or or so to talk about a specific topic
1:04:24
the cool thing about these is you laun them small and you have this really small community then you ask the community what do you want to hear and
1:04:29
then I'll bring in guests that they want to hear right they'll be able to interact with these these guests and then they'll be able to put together trips and then as it grows as you scale
1:04:37
it right there's more challenge to keep it personal but there's things we're going to be doing cool great idea you
1:04:42
mentioned earlier and I can't remember if you said you did or you're going to do makeo shark on the Fly did you guys
1:04:48
done that did you it's out right now Conway Bowman give us give us a little tidbit of that how was this is such a
1:04:54
good episode because Conway con ways I've interviewed some big people I mentioned yvon I also interviewed The
1:04:59
Fawns right hey right the fawn from Happy Days he's a he's a big fly angler but this one was so good because Conway
1:05:05
is kind of like the Superstar he literally only guides mako shark and if you don't know makos moo is the baddest
1:05:12
ass shark on the planet it eats it eats all the big predators and people think how do you
1:05:18
catch it on a fly rod right and then once you get it howd you land CU these things are 200 lb sometimes 800 lb and he just described what it's like because
1:05:25
these things literally on a fly rod will come out jump 20 feet in the air yeah but the other cool thing about makos is
1:05:31
they will they will come up to your boat and they will literally hit your boat the big ones really aren't they known
1:05:37
for actually jumping in the boat when they're on when you've got them online he told the story about one that did
1:05:43
that but yeah they're very careful on this so they don't take him out of the water it's this whole thing a lot of times they actually have a quick long
1:05:48
line release where they don't even get them to the boat right that thing is unbelievable the but it just shows you where fly fishing is at now is that
1:05:55
literally any species vampire fish in af or whatever South America you name the species there's somebody chasing it with
1:06:01
a fly rod did you have to did you have to imitate a bait fish for those makos or did you have to have some ridiculous
1:06:08
fly they're using some of these like even for musky we're going to be used 20inch flies for must right yeah I mean
1:06:15
like and that's the fun thing about fly fishing is that not only that you talked about the art but fly tying actually tying the Flies is this amazing thing
1:06:21
about half the people have fun just tying flies so you come up with these crazy the cool thing is is that a lot of
1:06:26
people when they tie these flies the best flies imitate sometimes like baits actual you know crankbaits or things
1:06:31
that You' use in conventional so we talk a lot about that like a lot of these Anglers some of the best most known Kelly gallop and fly fishing are people
1:06:38
who were conventional fishing and they took that conventional and made it into fly right yeah you don't have to
1:06:43
necessar you know it's something worth noting at this point you don't have to necessarily cast your bait in order to
1:06:51
be fly fishing I know we did an episode uh troll
1:06:56
with fly fishing gear for speckled trout y for brook trout BR so your that was
1:07:02
cool that was and you guys got some big fish nice fish Johnny with Johnny you Johnny uh like you're not going to cast
1:07:10
uh a a 12inch fly it's yeah and actually the rods you will but not this far so
1:07:16
you're not casting them like we just have the casting Championship C are casting 200 feet you're not casting 200t
1:07:22
but you can cast a big with a right rod if it's a 10 11 weight rod you can cast at 40
1:07:27
feet did you say 200 feet somebody's casting 200 feet yeah go check this out the Golden Gate casting club we just had
1:07:34
them on the podcast as well so this is in San Francisco they have a a thing where they measure uh you know distance
1:07:39
so the guy I think the winner had like I think it was like 100 whatever it was close to 200 feet wow wow that's a long
1:07:46
cast how about you how far can you cast oh man I don't even I'm so I'm not even close I don't even but you know I could
1:07:53
cast 70 80 ft right I mean with people don't realize so when we go back
1:07:59
to Conventional fishing an i we're doing a lot of Liv scope fishing and and we're seeing that Target at we'll set our
1:08:05
thing for 90 ft you'll see a Target at 70 and you cast out and you think you're getting to 70 and it drops at 50 saying
1:08:11
oh my God wait a second I want to go past that fish I got to go to 90 and I'll tell you what like 110 120t cast is
1:08:17
a long cast especially with small stuff it's surprising that the the perception
1:08:23
by most Angling uh folks about the amount of line that they actually are
1:08:29
able to cast yeah and and I say that once again back to my retail days um I used to tell people when they're looking
1:08:35
at changing you know they'd come in with big spools full of line and they wanted to respool the the
1:08:43
reels and and I would always ask them how old is this stuff on here oh I I I I I don't know a couple of months and I a
1:08:50
couple of months well why do you want to change it oh he cuz I I I've used it up I've stretched the hell of it or
1:08:56
whatever and I say to him you know I'd say do you realize that I would be willing to bet that there is not a bit
1:09:04
of line on this reel that has seen daylight Beyond 50 fet because that's
1:09:09
all you're casting 50 to 75 ft if you do that every time you cast you're a champion but the perception is that that
1:09:17
line is you know every time it's a thousand yards of line going out you know it's funny um Dave I wanted to ask
1:09:25
you something because you you've had some wonderful guests um is it difficult
1:09:31
finding guests for such a niche and I you'll forgive me if I call it Niche but at at at one digit
1:09:40
percentage of the overall angling Community it's a niche is it tough finding guest not at all not at all and
1:09:46
I have a system set up for it now but I mean when I used to do it on my own it was yeah not at all because there's so
1:09:52
many people and one tip for anybody that has a podcast and they love helping people one tip that we used to do at the start is that when we' have a great
1:09:58
guest on at the end I would ask the guest hey this has been so amazing to chat with you would you would you have
1:10:03
maybe one or two or three people you know that would love to have a similar conversation like we had boom now he
1:10:08
gives me a couple people who are probably amazing as well and and then he helps me put it together so that's how
1:10:14
we started out and but now I basically get all of our guests come from our listeners so I reach out to everybody I say hey if you have a guest you want on
1:10:20
I will put together a podcast episode and I'll leave that open right now for your listeners if anybody wants a topic if they want to learn about fly fishing
1:10:27
I'll put that together and because we do so much content through the lives and through our podcast it's easy for me to
1:10:32
to do this stuff cool uh quickly before we let you go we appreciate you taking this much time with us by the way yeah
1:10:38
um Electronics does it play a role in I had a fly fishing I had a bit of a
1:10:44
question on this so I think I told you guys an and Pete in a in a podcast that I was out in BC uh last fall and we were
1:10:52
cromed fishing with Liv scope but were watching the hatches on Liv scope and
1:10:58
casting to them but I know he's the guy who I was with out there he's pretty immersed in the fly fishing Community
1:11:04
out there and he takes quite a bit of heat for it yeah who was that who was that Dean uh I won't say his name but
1:11:11
yeah he's a he's a good buddy of mine he he he's a guide out there so I don't I'll first like I said our BC we got
1:11:17
we're I just had a the live was on BC last night but like because of Phil royy the still are lural Zone thing you know
1:11:24
Brian Chan all these guys I'm kind of in that BC range a little bit but I'll tell you off air you might know him yeah tell
1:11:30
me off air yeah but um you know bottom line is is Tech is huge I mean and and Phil calls it he doesn't call it a fish
1:11:36
finder which is what I used to call it he calls it a um what does he call it like a depth it's more to figure out where you know what's going on below but
1:11:43
these things these forward facing is that what you guys are talking about forward facing sonar yeah so that is wow
1:11:48
that's a whole another level of thing and and I do agree I think that I don't know if I agree but I just think we got
1:11:53
to realize that wow when this becomes a computer game you know what I mean you get to some point where well it's not
1:11:59
quite like fishing with dad Grandpa back in the old days and maybe the tech is getting so good but you could look at
1:12:05
fly rods too I mean like I said our lines are so good is do we have an unfair advantage that we're killing you
1:12:10
know we're hurting too many fish I mean that's a question we all have to think about I don't know if there's truth to that but I think it's something we need
1:12:15
to really think about how many how what kind of percentage would
1:12:21
uh I'm assuming most fly fishing is done from Shore are not in a boat is that am
1:12:26
I correct in that or no no really again it's equal whether you're fishing I mean there is lots of shore fishing 100% yeah
1:12:33
okay let's see there's a surprise for me we were talking earlier a little bit about like the cost of Entry or the
1:12:38
barrier of Entry to fly fishing I actually think one of the reasons why more people are getting into it is cu it
1:12:44
actually seems to be higher now for conventional with all the tech oh my God like like it used to be like all the fly
1:12:50
rods are expensive compared to spinning and all this stuff but now like it kind of equals out with the tech that you
1:12:55
need to like really compete in fishing in conventional with fly fishing it's almost cheaper to enter now yeah I mean
1:13:03
you don't have you probably don't have 12 fly rods all set up on your boat all sitting across like that you know or say
1:13:09
eight per person or something like that I would assume you're you're probably not to that level as fly anger there's
1:13:15
yet but I listen to all that and I still have and I don't mean to disagree with you Dave you know a hell of a lot more
1:13:23
about the subject than I do but as an outsider looking into your community I
1:13:29
still say that there is an element of um people that fly fish that
1:13:36
are the purest hardcore purest Anglers who probably would never use Electronics
1:13:44
probably would not have 32 rods all set
1:13:50
up on the bow of their boat probably not have all of the Hightech fly fishing
1:13:56
equipment that's available to fly Anglers because they're in it for a different reason and I and I know some
1:14:02
of those people I would say and I hear what you're saying I would definitely
1:14:08
disagree a little bit and just say that I mean I think you're right but I we just did a survey of our listeners and I send we do these two times a year we
1:14:14
send out a survey we get 30 questions answered one of them was like how much conventional fishing do you do you know
1:14:21
or whatever and we know that over 60% of our listeners something like that conventional fish regularly so I feel
1:14:27
like our audience is a really a mix you know what I mean you're probably a good that's probably a good representation
1:14:33
that 60% of fly Anglers are not the purest no the ardan
1:14:42
you know ascot tie Brier pipe the Tweed hat
1:14:47
I'm I agree with youtiful cast love I agree 60% maybe 70% are not that but
1:14:54
there is an element in fly fishing the purest when we talk about Electronics or
1:15:00
or new technology they put up across that the were vampires you know what I mean and I'm
1:15:07
not saying that's negative I'm just saying it's real it's the reality right no I agree with you and I will say on on
1:15:13
just to wrap this point up is that one of the things I've heard from a quote from when we get these surveys from these listeners is they say they love
1:15:19
our show because I'm professional but not pretentious and I love that because my show all it's not about me my show is
1:15:27
about connecting our listeners to amazing guests yeah right and so I feel like and there probably are shows out
1:15:32
there that are pretentious and they you know any anything but so I feel like the cool thing about what we do is we really
1:15:38
are against that our thing is all about bringing in everybody diversity inclusion let's just bring everybody into fly fishing and let's have fun it's
1:15:45
just another tool right just exactly and what's nice is that you can learn things
1:15:50
uh every time out whether you're fly fishing or angling doesn't really matter you learn which end which brings me to
1:15:56
the closing message I've learned a few things here today too so before I let you go uh Dave is there any like other
1:16:02
guests that you think we should book three maybe two or three other guests that you give us some yeah right that
1:16:08
you guys should have on this is amazing and here's what some my guests say sometimes let me get back to you but no
1:16:13
I mean for sure here's the thing I've had I'm just I don't know exactly but I'll bet you 10 or 15% of our guests
1:16:20
have been conventional so we've had these Gordon piser is one he an amazing
1:16:25
right so we had Gordon on Gordon was amaz so I've had some of these guys that overlap and they're just fish guys yeah
1:16:31
so I've got some names I can give you for sure um but um but like I said if you could get uh the fwn on that would
1:16:36
be a fun one he's a goody the F that would be that'd be cool love to have him on for sure well listen I am thrilled to
1:16:44
death that we open this door and uh I'm I'm hoping that it uh develops like most
1:16:50
good Anglers develops into a friendship yeah and an opportunity at some point to
1:16:56
to maybe share a boat or a shoreline think of me as your resident fly fishing if you ever have a question just ping me
1:17:04
and I'll give you the straight up answer not not some yepy you know I'll give you the straight answer on fly done perfect
1:17:10
uh tell folks quickly how they can hook up with you and get more of you yeah so wetfly swing everywhere like I said
1:17:16
wetfly swing.com ojd I'm just put it Outdoor Journal radio that'll get them to this page which will give them a
1:17:22
quick little actually five I have five tips from our 600 episodes I've I've put the five biggest tests from those 600
1:17:28
episodes we've heard most often on that page plus a couple videos that will help somebody if they're brand new to get into fly fishing beautiful Dave thank
1:17:35
you very much my friend uh all the best to you and uh may your fly stay dry oh
1:17:40
appreciate you guys keep up the good work love the show you guys all right all right take care uh F may your fly
1:17:47
stay dry that was that's kind of a what do you call that an oxymoron in the
1:17:52
sense that you're casting it into water I think you may your stay dry I like that fly always stay dry I like that
1:18:00
because because part of what you're seeing when you're seeing uh uh if they're fishing a dry fly they're drying
1:18:06
it out in the air AR they're drying it out because yeah it it it it eventually no matter how much dope you put on cuz
1:18:12
they use a dope to keep it floating no matter how much you put on after a while
1:18:18
it gets soaked with water and therefore starts dropping down below the surface and you don't want that F to be water
1:18:25
it's got a leak in it the screw holes and it's all of a sudden filling up with water ain't working right fly Anglers
1:18:31
they do that back and forth there you go see right over good exercise too it's a
1:18:36
good exercise be much better exercise than I think so
1:18:44
maybe uh that or it wonderful program uh Dave's a good guy great guy I urge
1:18:49
everybody that's watching that is borderline or fence sitting on trying um
1:18:57
fly fishing check him out uh yeah check out his videos Etc he says it's not that
1:19:02
expensive to get into probably cheaper than what you and I do now like said anything else you can make it super
1:19:07
expensive or or you can make it just uh uh I'm sure there's all kind well there was I'm sure there still is entry level
1:19:14
fly fishing gear all over the right right and I I used to sell packages for 100 bucks really yeah that was 25 years
1:19:22
20 years ago l couple hundred bucks now wouldn't hurt a guy I mean people spend that all the time now anyways
1:19:28
conventional right the line is probably the most surprisingly expensive I that
1:19:33
doesn't surprise me a bit um you know what I mean a school of Flor carbon is 30 bucks for us so I got imagine what
1:19:39
good $100 line is not out of the question wow yeah interesting anyways that are it
1:19:46
thank you very much for joining us really appreciate uh you uh coming into
1:19:51
our world once again and and and our guest world because that's not really our world so was kind of us stepping out
1:19:58
of our world right yep R fishing canada.com the Gateway the portal to your next fishing adventure and until
1:20:04
then uh until then for the uh rest of the crew here uh vaa over there uh Dean
1:20:11
Taylor I Dean learned a lot today about how to get guests on that figure yeah
1:20:16
yeah just us a little bit Dave's influence he's going to put into Dean's head hopefully he's going to be you know
1:20:22
he made his three mistakes already today Dean so he's going to be going home after that right but that's off the air
1:20:27
Stu we had a little fun with Dean this morning so uh he's Peter Bowman I'm Andrew Ro
1:20:32
thanks for joining us folks we'll catch you next time [Music]
1:20:44
[Applause] [Music]
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